'77 Fiat X1/9: This is all your fault GRM.

Man, all the way at the bottom of page three, and it hasn't even been a week since the last update!

I've got the engine reliably starting and running. It idles high still, but not dashing for redline any more. I pulled the old carb to swap in the new (rebuilt) unit that came with the car and found that the bakelite spacer was pretty chewed through. Replaced that along with the carb and found the exact same condition. Grrr...

After tightening the four bolts that hold the carb and twiddling all the screws on this thing, I finally got it sorted. decel dashpot was too close, choke set too tight, etc.

Now on to the next issue(s).

The water pump discharge (or supply, I really don't know) has a steel tube running the length of the block. There was coolant puking from this general vicinity, so I'm guessing it is corroded through. I'll have to pull it out to Chinese-blueprint a new one. You can see the pipe just below the torque mount in this photo:

The last thing keeping me from going for a drive is the clutch. The POs had TWO giant clutch slave return springs on there, so it always made a nice >SPROING< noise every time you worked the clutch. I disconnected them both to see why the clutch didn't seem to disengage. In this pic, you'll see that I can move the throwout lever with just one finger. E36 M3. I have to drop the transmission to service the clutch.

I'm rapidly losing any motivation to make this powertrain work for me at all. I've been trolling JDM engine importer websites. I'll post another thread about that...

I'd also like to add that I switched from photobucket since I max out of bandwidth if more than three people view my thread over to Flickr, where I had to edit this post five times from my iPad and then remote into my work computer and edit the post an additional three times to get the images to embed at all, never mind the messed up img tags. They sure don't want to make it easy.

I changed over the important images on the first page, so there shouldn't be the "look who's popular" message.

Great project! I'm jealous! The best part is that it is rust free. Generally, X1/9s rust where you can see it. The fact that the windshield area is so clean is a very good sign.

Quick note, the seat upholstery is not original. It should be vinyl.

In reply to racerdave600:

Thanks for the info on the seats. I'll be reupholstering them at some point, but that is way down the list for now. First I need to get it on the road to se some priorities.

I've started scraping through the paint and primer in a few places because I'm the sort of guy who wants to do things right. I need to gauge the caliber of the work performed by the previous owners to know if it is safe for me to pile more paint on top of... Right now I think I am going to pick up some 3M paint removal discs and see if I can remove just the Rustoleum. There appears to be decent primer underneath where repairs were made.

I'd like to reshoot some primer, get everything sanded down, and then hit it with some decent paint. Undecided on single-stage or base/clear, but I am going to stick with yellow. Not the same Giallo shade as from the factory, but similar.

Progress continues despite the lack of updates here. I continue to block sand the paint, and I'm planning to hit it with some primer once the weather warms up again in a few months. I'm a little reluctant not to dig into any previous repairs to see the extent of the repair, but at the same time I've got to draw the line somewhere and what I've seen so far looks good.

Yesterday I made a 5 hour round trip to stuff the trunk of my SAAB with some loot from turboswede. Turns out a 1.5L engine fits really nicely in there!

Unloading:

When I got home and unloaded it, I found that this engine sits on a Harbor Freight dolly better than any other engine on the planet. It's like Lampredi designed it knowing that it would spend more time on this style dolly than any other location. In this photo, I've introduced the car to it's potential new heart:

See how nicely it sits on the dolly? It's the little things, I tell you.

You can also see in the above photos the sanding I've been doing. Not much to see there. Progress is progress.

Glad to see you are at it!

Very happy to see it out from under the bench in my garage and onto a dolly in yours!

It was great meeting you and the SAAB sounded pretty good (even if it is a bit fuzzy, heh.)

Sweet, Keep at it. If you need odd mechanical bits shoot me an email (jim@misfittoysracing.com), I have a lot of little leftovers from my Fiat dabblings that I'd be happy to pass along cheaply.

Keep it coming, I had forgotten about this build as it has been so long since the last update.

I was finally motivated to get under the Fiat this weekend and drop the transmission to find out why the clutch throwout lever was flopping in the breeze. I spent about an hour putzing around on the car getting ready to drop the trans when I decided to take another look at the throwout lever. Turns out if I ran the adjustment nut all the way out it would pick up the clutch! Happy news! I guess I was just being dumb when I worked on this the last time.

After that discovery I quickly shifted gears to seeing what the cooling system needed to be complete- I could smell a potential shakedown cruise in my near future, and with it a bright new rush of motivation.

The last time I had it running it was puking coolant from the vicinity of the coolant pump. I suspected it was corrosion of the crossover pipe causing a leak since it is steel, so I swapped the one off of the 1500 I just brought home. While the old pipe was badly corroded, I found there was still a leak coming from that area after getting the engine started again. Not leaking as bad as it was, but I can't see where it is coming from. Looks like it might be right under the exhaust manifold, but it definitely isn't the freeze plugs or the crossover pipe. I let it warm up and I think I got all the air in the cooling system bled out even if it is still dripping. Meanwhile, the exhaust cloud filled the garage and killed any mosquitoes taking shelter from the winter.

The left rear brake caliper was dragging, but nothing a little speed wrench couldn't fix- I hammered on the wedge shims a bit and it loosened up. Moment of truth- I decided to back it out of the garage.

My house is right on a main street and the driveway is very visible. As I pulled out a dude in a new f150 stopped right in the middle of the street to watch. The brake was still dragging a little, but the car drove...like it should have. Much to my surprise.

I turned the car around and pulled it into back into the garage. I gave it a quick look and everything seemed fine so I decided to go down the road a bit.

I ran it half a mile down the road and turned home. It's burning off 12-20 years of disuse, so it is a little smoky and stinky. The 1300 engine is grossly underpowered, but still feels sporty thanks to its free-reving nature and how small and close to the ground the X1/9 sits.

Proof that all this happened:

My garage spans the length of Europe quite well.

See, look! Fresh tracks!

I swapped it ass-end out so I won't fog the whole garage with exhaust as I continue to work on getting the engine running well. I'm pretty excited by this progress, and I'm sure it will help keep me motivated!

Fantastic!

Looks like you could use some of the banana paint that Mr. Burrito used on his yellow fiat when the time comes: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/71-fiat-850-spider-a-sub-liter-beater/66920/page3/

Glad to see your new shot of motivation. I was thinking about this thing the other day.

Somehow I missed this thread until today. Looks like a great project given the lack of rust, and I like the contents of your garage!! I've always wanted an X1/9.

Looks good"

That's great! Also, give me your 900, please.

I love the X-19 without US bumpers.

Thanks for the comments guys!

bgkast, The food wrap snatcher has inspired me many times through the course of this project, not the least of which being the banana yellow rattle can!

I diagnosed a bad coolant temp sender today and discovered that the 1500 engine takes a different size sender than the 1300. Thanks Fiat.

I'm starting to think the coolant leak is a blown head gasket. Even when warmed up, the exhaust still has a white cloud to it, like coolant. The water pump had a gasket style change in 78 or 79 that would allow coolant into the exhaust manifold if you put the wrong gasket in, but I don't think that is the case here, because it doesn't explain the water all along the backside of the block.

Not my photo, but this is the only one I could find without the manifolds on- you can see the water pump housing on the right. It's really hard to see where the leak is coming from, but it is the whole length of the block and seems to be high enough to be from the head gasket. Weird to see it leaking out like this, but what else could it be?

I made a very crappy video of the engine running. It starts easily and idles high, but smoothly. The coolant is a dirty, rusty mess even after letting most of it leak out when I swapped the crossover pipe this weekend. I need to flush it out a few times to get it to clear up. I'm guessing the pipes that run under the car to the radiator are thoroughly corroded and need to be replaced.

Video: Leaky x1/9

I'd like to get this engine running well enough to drive a little, just so I can get a feel for the car and what it needs. By the old fender bounce technique, I can tell you it needs shocks all the way around, and a few bushings look a little tired. I know I need to do the coolant pipes and wouldn't mind doing the Sirocco radiator upgrade. I don't want to put much money into this engine because I know it won't likely stay for long.

Can you take a peak down the spark plug holes and see if one or more cylinders are steam cleaned?

Can the 1300 cylinder head bolts/studs be retorqued? I don't remember.

My folk's 80 Strada had a cat converter clog shortly after they bought it new and it took out the head gasket in the 1500. Fixed under warranty, but HG issues aren't unheard of in those cars, especially given the time frames involved.

Sounds like pulling the intake and exhaust wouldn't be a bad idea to get an idea of what's going on back there and from there you can either pull the motor and replace it with the 1500 or put it back together and run it for a little bit by adding coolant as needed.

As for struts, those won't be easily solved as KYB GR-2's seem to be the only off the shelf versions available. Otherwise you'll have to make something else fit.

Wish I hadn't sold the racing strut housings I bought for my car way back when. They were setup for fairly universal Koni strut inserts and had threaded bodies. Very nice pieces, went to a guy in NY I believe.

bgkast wrote: Can you take a peak down the spark plug holes and see if one or more cylinders are steam cleaned?

Definitely on my list to do the next time I get a chance to work. Great suggestion.

Turboswede, you're right that these engines aren't known for robust head gaskets. I'm more inclined to replace the gasket on the 1300 before swapping the 1500 in. I'm still undecided about what to do for an engine, and here are the options I see:

-replace the HG on the 1300 and drive it. Risk life and limb merging onto highways at a blistering 45MPH, but cackle maniacally over how much money I've saved.

-drop the 1500 in as-is with Megasquirt or other EMS. Suffer poor performance. Laugh all the way to the bank (albeit slowly).

-drop the 1500 in as-is with Megasquirt or other EMS and turbocharge it with little regard to engine reliability and pre-det control. Abuse mercilessly until failure and then move on to swapping in a modern engine (see below).

-rebuild the 1500 with performance upgrades and drop in with Megasquirt or other EMS. Suffer mediocre performance. Suffer buyer's remorse for putting all that $$$ into a build that results in mediocre performance.

-swap in another motor all together (e.g. Hyabusa, K20, Fiat TC, etc.) Suffer from scope creep and lengthy build process, plus potential for huge cost. Be pleased with the final outcome but feel guilt over divesting another X1/9 from it's SOHC Lampredi heritage.

Regarding struts, I think I might make a "learn me" thread on home-brew coilovers because I think these might be in my future. I've got fabrication know-how but zero hands-on experience with coilovers.

In reply to Mezzanine:

A properly running 1300 or 1500 in an Exxie really isn't that bad for acceleration. You just have to rev the piss out of it, that's how it was designed (Lampredi, F1 engines, Italian yada yada). You'll certainly have more fun than the idiots in the hybrids who can't be bothered to merge.

Of course turbocharging the stock 1500 has been done with success and to be honest the transaxle and axles will give up before the engine will. Keep the boost number reasonable (5-7psi, maybe a little more with an intercooler)

If I were contemplating turbocharging the 1500 (and I was) then I'd get one of these universal kits:

http://www.jgstools.com/turbo/index2.html

With a Chrysler T3 flange:

http://www.jgstools.com/turbo/tk100p.jpg

And bolt on a Mitsubishi TE04H from an early Chrysler. Its actually sized about right for the 1500 out of the box and the Turbo-Dodge folks give them away because they are too small. Cheap and easy to refresh. Plus I have a spare or two in my own stash if you're interested....

Plumb it in with oil and water, add a downpipe from a forlorn old Chrysler, run 2.5" pipe straight out, plumb it into a side mounted intercooler and slowly tune the MegaSquirt until fun/reliable.

As for "coil overs" the set that I bought as part of the group buy were fairly simple and wouldn't be hard to fab aside from having enough welding experience to weld the fairly thick lower mounting tabs to the thinner metal of the tubes.

Otherwise it was a fairly simple steel tube with an internally threaded section at the top for a strut retaining nut and welded bottom with a hole for mounting the bottom of the strut or for a lower adjuster. Universal adjustable spring perches were slid over the top of the tube and had a stop collar to ride against. Mounting tabs welded to the tube at the appropriate heights for use in the front and the rear. Obviously you'll need to know which strut inserts you'll be using before finalizing the design so you need to get the dimensions correct and you may want to raise the mounting tabs as much as possible to retain strut travel at lower ride height and then make a plan to attempt to correct the geometry by lowering the balljoints, etc.

Here are some pic of them before I sold them off:

New owner had me powder coat them yellow before I shipped them. Wish I had taken a picture of them as they looked great!

I like the drop the 1500 in w/ basic MS fuel management and stock spark. Then it's running fairly well while you sort the suspension and plan a modern engine swap. I've got an MS1-v2.2 you can have for very cheap towards the cause. Like, cheap enough you won't feel bad if you decide to scrap it and go with later/better megasquirt or other EMS when you get to the modern power plant swap.

Not to much into the x/19's per say but have had a few friends that have owned them. The problem most people have is that they feel they are under powered because they are shifting at 4k rpm. The motor is just hitting it's powerband at that point. These cars with the 1300 are meant to be driven on the ragged edge of the rpm band. They don't come alive unless you do. They aren't going to slap the pants off much in a drag race that's for sure. They will how ever kick the snot out of just about any stock suspended car in the twisties. About the only way to make any good power is to bump the compression up with new pistons, Head work, headers and exhaust, cam and dual carbs. Just like everything else out there if you want more power. Surprisingly these are still very easy to get. If you need more advice call Ray Mortenson at Performace Apex he's been doing work on these cars for a long time. The 1.5 fi motor actually would be the better motor to start with if you are going the turbo route. The compression is 8.5 to 1 if I recall and the bottom ends are fairly stout. As far as brakes go the only thing I would suggest is ss flexable lines and good street/race pads. Ferrado used to have a good set but were dusty and would eat up the rotors but fad was about non existent and they had good feed back at the edge. Ebc yellow's aren't to bad as well as the greens. I'm a little heaver on the braking so a more aggressive pad is usually what I use. Back in the day Carrera shocks used to make shocks for this car. Since QA-1 purchased them I haven't seen them in there catalog. Well that's about it as I could go on for some time about what to do but she's your car so have fun.

In reply to Mezzanine: Since you are also a SAAB guy, have you considered adapting a T5 system into the 1500 + turbo? In the preliminary research that I've done towards a T5 swap for my c900, I've come across a couple of T5 conversions on 8v c900s and at least one Toyota running T5. All had the DI cassette remotely mounted, using equal length plug wires.

I've never done a MS, I was planning to do it on my SAAB, but the more I learned about the T5 conversion, the less sense that MS made, at least for a 4 cyl.

I'll still do a MS someday .....probably on a v12 Jag.

In reply to brad131a4: thanks for the input. I definitely plan to get in touch with Ray at Performance Apex- he is only about 45 minutes from me, so that is a big bonus.

In reply to turboswede: turbo 1500 is slowly moving to the front of the list, and it would definitely be a fast spooling low boost setup. I'm not real big on turbo cars because lag makes me sad.

In reply to HappyAndy: I've never been a big proponent of T5 swaps. I personally don't find them to be the promised land that the internet implies them to be- sure they can be done cheaply and very well, but my beef is in tuning. If you're keeping all your modifications inside of a moderately small window, then you don't have to tune anything. I've had a few friends do nice T5 builds, and they're all very happy with them; they will all tell you that they're tired of collecting DI cassettes and extra ECUs because they're prone to frying when attempting to reflash. Again, I'm not totally down on T5- it just isn't for me because I actually like tuning.