so i accidently bought a car and started a challenge team last night. have questions.

Y'all shoulda seen the E36 M3 we flushed out of the cooling system. Holy crap. I could've almost buried my daughter is it.

But that cleaning should help.

We also discovered that the upper radiator hose was sucking shut under higher rpms. Used an old spring from a dead radiator hose from a tractor we found in the barn.

The clutch is back after adjustments, but the bracket is flexing considerably. Need to triangulate it somehow.

And we lowered the back 2 more inches. Damned thing looks sinister now.

No pictures yet because i can't link Flickr pictures from the phone.

Dusterbd13 wrote: And we lowered the back 2 more inches. Damned thing looks sinister now. No pictures yet because i can't link Flickr pictures from the phone.

You're an evil man you know.

In reply to Stampie:

Not evil.

But not good either.

Chaotic neutral.

Dusterbd13 wrote:

Chadeux wrote:

So how would i make bolt on flares like these? Im digging them.

You might not need the flares for the autocross, dunno if you'll be going fast enough where the drag of the spinning wheels would appreciably slow down the car, considering your motor. Possibly some slightly rounded canards that share some mount holes with the removeable flares would give you some front end grip... plus, assuming you can see the tires from the seat... still being able to see the tires might mean tighter lines through the cones?

The flares will have the most benefit (for the GRM challenge) during the drags, where the exposed and spinning wheel (and general flow nastiness of the cut-back fender) are going to add a bunch of drag slowing you above 50mph-ish.

I don't know how to link to specific posts, so I'll point you back to loosecannon's mgb flares build. While the above flares look good, the upward rotation at the back of the wheel is actually going to pump pressure into the back of the fender flare... making that part act like a parachute (which is what's in loosecannon's thread). If you make them, I'd recommend you don't let them extend pas the hub-center at "static height", and make sure that back end has some kind of 'block off plate' that's parallel with the ground. (does that word salad make cesear?)

In reply to sleepyhead:

That makes a lot of sense. I hadn't really thought about aero vs flares much, in all honesty. The flare ideas are primarily for cosmetic purposes. But, in thinking about it after reading this, theres definitely some real performance being left on the table.

Definitely some food for thought, but finding the best implementation in the time and budget remaining will be the challenge for us.

That, and the fact that none if us are good enough drivers to extract the whole potential of the car as it sits, let alone and benifit from the additional downforce or reduced drag.

.

Dusterbd13 wrote:

In reply to sleepyhead:

Definitely some food for thought, but finding the best implementation in the time and budget remaining will be the challenge for us.

Canvas?

How common are trailer fenders where you are? Attaching those would be the hard part, maybe l-brackets inside the fender?

Or, you could add a splitter under the engine, extending out in front of the bumper and wrapping into in front of the wheels. The run something with l-brackets from inside the wheel well out to cover the tire from head-on up to the top of the wheel. Then have a flat piece that connects from the splitter to that curved piece to add strength... kind of like the pikes peak cars...

with a shorter, but wider, splitter.

Challenge Budget: Car/parts $200

Donor Lincoln town car: 410

Engine crossmember: 120

Sold transmission crossmember from Lincoln: 10 Sold rear axle from lincoln: -50 Scrapped what was left of lincoln: -89

Sold AOD from lincoln (300, but can only recoup 261)

Engine swap: 5.0 plus 300 boot

Sold kelstar wheels-200 (cant recoup more than we spent)

2x2 angle iron, tractor supply 12.05

Brand new Watkins glen nascar slicks and wheels, which were bought for $50, and promptly sold to Dallas dad for $50 and some weld wheels with really old drag slicks. So, slicks were $0, but $50 taken out of the recoup limit.

6 5/8 heim and jamb nuts, as well as threaded tube for the front suspension: $65

Pair of aluminum seats, $40 and on;y usng 1 so $20. .

Sheet of flame retardant high density foam $10

Fire suppression system parts (not included in challenge budget. But ive had 2nd degree burns on the boys before, so were getting safety gear come hell or high water) 1/4 plate, scrap metal yard: 7.50

Mustang convertible mounts 22

Bending plate cost 25

Swedged tubing, ebay: 31.90

Threaded adjusters and 650lb springs, SRI performance: 65

2 used billstein shocks, pull-a-part: 14

Cage materials: 271.40

Spool welding wire: 33

Leaf spring sliders: 40

Clamps for spring adjusters: 23.59

Adjustable brake bias valve 18 (amazon)

2 cans of flat black spray paint (lowes project source) .97 ea Half melted, used 21 circuit ez wiring harness cut from my duster after the mice chewed it up and it had a meltdown. $5 is what I was quoted as FMV due to the fact that copper prices are down.

Accessories and flexplate: see link in update

Battery cables and relays, pull-a-part: 12.75

Steering box, pull-a-part: 27.50

25feet 3/8 steel fuel line, ebay: 25.75

Bypass fuel pressure regulator, ebay: 29.23

fuel pump: 23

Used mix and match nitrous kit: 32

Two half cans of ford engine blue $7

3/8 plastic line clamps, lowes: 1.78

1/2 metal line clamps, lowes: 3.48

Throttle return springs and brackets: 5

3/8 2x compression fittings, 3x npt-compression, 1x t fitting from plumbing supply house: 6 battery hold down, oriellys 5.99

2x 36 inch 1x1 holey tube: 2

Driveshaft safety loop (dad bought it at an auction last week) 5

Tractor supply run for bolts and angle iron: 18.08

Wheels for monster slicks: 50 from facebook marketplace

Lower radiator hose: 14.82

Oil filter: 4.17

Bucket of hose clamps (pull-a-part doesn't charge for these, so I added the admission charge to the yard): 1

Scrap chunk of 16gauge sheetmetal: .25

Suspension and 3.73 posi 8.8, offerup: 100

Traded ultralights and sun tach for pro-tach, mechanical 2 5/8 gauges and chunk of diamond plate from a 4x4 buggy guy down the street

Rear brake hose: Challenge budget exempt

Spark plug boot insulators, ebay, 11

Spring perches, amazon 17.49

Pipe standoffs (5) and 3/8 allthread, rhulens supply 8.22

Chunk of diamond plate: unknown. dad scrounged it somewhere, and said he got got for free. I just dont know where, or if I need to FMV it.

Misc crap (zipties, sheet metal screws, wiring terminals, used toggles, nuts and bolts, etc. Pretty much the little oddball crap that goes into every build that I had laying around from over the years) 50

Starter solenoid: 12ish (placeholder till I find the receipt or a cheaper one)

2 inch glasspacks, chunks of 2 inch exhaust tubing, and a little bit of stainless 2 inch: steves buddy: 15

Tow hook: 3?

Steering wheel from swap meet 5

Quick release, ebay: 19.99

Manual trans: 50

Flywheel: 45

2 dog leases 1.98

2 u joint straps 5.99

Clutch kit, clutch master, clutch slave: 107.13 shipped

Power steering hose: 15.99

3/8 coupler: 2.50

Welding: 5

Alternator plugs: 2

Starter: 34.39

Driveshaft from 99 explorer 4wd: 22.95

ARP pressure plate bolts: 12:50 bradley auto parts

Shocks from scrap metal pile: 5

Hood pins: 7.50. Ebay

Hoosier f40 scrubs (budget exempt, byt I bought 16 with a max of 13 laps for 15 each!!!)

Hydraulic clutch line: 25 from the local tow company

3 inch blocks: 36.99 advance auto

New challenge budget total: 1861.80

Friday night we worked on the car. Figured out the clutch issue is a combination of problems. We forgot to tighten the jamb nut, allowing the linkage to come out of adjustment, and allow the clutch to not disengage. In addition, the bracket that's holding the slave on its flexing. A lot. Like moving an inch or so. After readjusting the linkage, the clutch works again. So yay! Also, the horrendous noises we were hearing was a result of the block plate being bent and hitting the flywheel. There’s some shiny spots now. We figure it will self clearance after a while longer.

Now that we knew the trans didn't have to come out, we decided to work on the list of fixed and tweaks some. Since wit had been a 14 hour work day already, we needed some of the simple things. And Mexican. And sleep.

So we lowered the car. 3 inch blocks and new ubolts from afdvance. It leveled the car out. Looks freaking SINISTER. 20170728_190549 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr 20170728_193312 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

We also diagnosed the power steering noise. Apparently we blew all the fluid out, and it runs low when the car is running and has the cooler filled. So, simple solution is remove the cooler, fill the fluid, and tie a rag around the cap.

Then we looked into the cooling issues. First up, we drained the block and radiator. Mud came out. So we filled the system with some coolant system flush that's been in my cabinet since we bought the house 10 years ago, and began cooling the system. After an hour, we got merely coffee color water back out. The picture doesn't pick it up well. We also discovered that the upper hose was collapsing at high RPM. Dallas pulled an old tractor radiator hose out of the trash pile at the end of the barn, we took the spring out of it, and stuffed it in the upper hose. Problem should be solved. Were running another flush through the system this week, then blowing it out again and adding distilled water and water wetter to the system. We also found a rubbermaid lid on the side of highway 74 to make some air guide plates between the grille and radiator for extra air through the core. You can see it in the corner of the water picture. 20170728_195146 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr Then we ate Mexican and went to bed.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't the lower hose be the one to suck shut, since it's on the suction side?

In reply to TheRyGuy:

In theory, yes. I have never seen this before, and have no explanation for it. I also wold not have believed it if i hadn't seen it with my own eyes.

What are you hoping to do with the trans? I've read that the synchro's are dead and it leaks everywhere. Plans for that?

Mpre or less, fix leaks and switch to atf in the hopes of making some sort of improvement. Shifting got much better after linkage adjustments as well, so there may be more to be gained there as well. This thing has enough in second to make shifting unnecessary on autocross, but the shifting needs to be good enough to make a couple of clean drag passes.

Eventually we will go through the trans, but not on challenge budget.

In reply to Dusterbd13:

Hmmm, that is strange. Have you changed the pulley set up at all? Looks like you have a serpentine belt running just the alternator in your picture of the radiator flush.

If I recall correctly there is a clockwise rotation water pump and an anti-clockwise rotation pump for the 302 Ford, depending on the application and belt routing.

You might be spinning that pump backwards from its intended direction of rotation, causing suction on the wrong side of the system.

The weight of the water in the radiator is what feeds the water pump from the bottom. If it is going the other way, it will cause cavitation.

The other things I would look at is make sure your overflow line isn't plugged, your radiator cap is working correctly, and t-stat. Personally, on that car I wouldn't run a t-stat, but a restrictor with a 5/8 or 3/4 hole instead.

Also, the amount of gunk you say was in the system may be contributing to the issue as well. If you have time there is a lot of good cooling system info here, Stewart Cooling System Components

BTW, I have really enjoyed following your building of this car! I've been sorely tempted to pick up a Spirt (gutted ex-dragcar) not far from me and do something similar, but I have enough projects to do already!

Good luck at the Challenge!

$90 for this rebuild kit with some brass; 3.03 rebuild kit from Tom's Bronco Parts

But every dollar counts and understood if you avoid that kind of cost for this kind of project.

In reply to TheRyGuy:

We wound up using the water pump and accessories from the town car, radiator from inside the car. Im unsure if the cooling system is now reverse flow or not.

The radiator cap is definitely suspect. We have confirmed properly function of the thermostat and overflow. But there's definitely more crap in the system. More cleaning should definitely help.

Pres: thats cheap. But over budget, to be honest. I amy pull the synchros and do the old ronnie sox tweaks to them. Maybe. If theres enough left tp slick shift.

Dusterbd13 wrote: ...pull the synchros and do the old ronnie sox tweaks to them. Maybe. If theres enough left tp slick shift.

Buy a new set, tweak them, install them, evaluate performance. if no improvement, don't put them in the budget. Or: Which shift needs most improvement? Buy the whole set, use only the one that will make the biggest difference, and pro-rate the price.

In reply to AngryCorvair:

Even with no improvement, wouldn't i still have to count them? Like id still have to count the seal that started leaking during testing.

In reply to Dusterbd13:

Replacing a leaking seal provides a performance benefit by not leaking.

So now that the autocrossing debut is done when are you guys going to test on the 1/4?

In reply to Stampie:

Hopefully soon, but life seems to be conspiring against us at the moment.

What trans is it again? The t5 synchro are cheap! I just bought 1 brand new for 5th gear. It was about 8 dollars iirc.

The 1 through 4 are more expensive due to being lined steel, but not crazy expensive.

Its a ford toploader 3 speed. Called the 3.03

Bought a different starter solenoid: 7.90

Resurrected dead fuel pump that we paid 6.50 for.

Bought some secret weaponry: 100

Made spring clamps from leftover chunks of a bedframe i gont on trash sau a long time ago. Free.

Trans seal:4.50

Shift boot: free from a geo tracker headed to the scrapper.

If y'all want to, see what else we can cut budget on. Still have paint and body to do, especially now. Ill show the fender flares and such when i build them, and do a full update soon. As well as a budget reckoning for this post.

Please, look for ways to cut the budget. Need to fing aroud $100 to make life simple.

Just scored the exact same lowering blocks from amazon for 25.89 with free shipping. Guess ill have to try to return these to advance.

Dusterbd13 wrote: Bought a different starter solenoid: 7.90 Resurrected dead fuel pump that we paid 6.50 for. Bought some secret weaponry: 100 Made spring clamps from leftover chunks of a bedframe i gont on trash sau a long time ago. Free. Trans seal:4.50 Shift boot: free from a geo tracker headed to the scrapper. If y'all want to, see what else we can cut budget on. Still have paint and body to do, especially now. Ill show the fender flares and such when i build them, and do a full update soon. As well as a budget reckoning for this post. Please, look for ways to cut the budget. Need to fing aroud $100 to make life simple.

An earlier post you listed $23 for fuel pump. If you are now using a "resurrected dead fuel pump that we paid 6.50 for" you can net the difference:

($23 - $6.50) = $16.5 back into the budget

Dusterbd13 wrote: Just scored the exact same lowering blocks from amazon for 25.89 with free shipping. Guess ill have to try to return these to advance.

Doesn't matter if you return them. If they're not on the car they don't count towards budget.