Challenge Supreme Court (Questions Answered Here!)

SVreX said:

It says "direct exhaust out of body to rear of car". That means don't stick it out the front bumper pointing forward.  It also means you can't just stick it out the side of the car without a bend of some sort to direct the exhaust to the rear of the car.  You can't blow exhaust at the driver, or a competitor on the other lane.

If it had meant a full exhaust with continuous piping to the back bumper of the car, it would say so. 

Since we all know many, many race cars do not have full exhaust, it is unreasonable to interpret this otherwise. 

So, am I understanding that as long as the exhaust is (even slightly) pointed towards the rear, we should be good?  Like something like this...

I've seen many hood exit and bumper exit exhausts on NHRA sanctioned tracks. I'd consider either acceptable.

Regarding tires:

Here's the FAQ about the subject:

"Q: What if I got four autocross tires for free, and bought 4 drag tires for $200? Can I claim my drag tires as my “free” set.

A: In this case, you may technically be able to claim all eight tires as free. However, remember that free parts must be known to and available to the public (eg. sitting in a ditch on the side of the road). A second set of tires that was given to you by a friend or acquired via any other non publicly-available transaction must be budgeted at fair market value."

The tires that were on the car when you bought it are not free, rather they're already in your budget as a part of the car's purchase price. That's why you can sell off tires that come with a car to reduce its budget impact. 

DjGreggieP said:

I have a few challenge related questions, due to my location I am mostly doing it as a 'playing along' kind of thing.

Car in question is an 86 Camaro that my mother has gifted to me. Been in the family and sitting around the farm for roughly 15 years. Do I need to put an actual monetary value on it or does it classify as a free car?

Secondly, in regards to purchasing parts, two things.

I am in Canada. Do I convert money spent on the same day as part purchase or tally total at the end?

My day job is parts counter at Napa, so my price is different from over the counter price. Do I budget at my total spent or total what a regular customer would have spent?

As I said, this is mostly as a playing along kind of build to see how innovative I can be to get the car back on the road then on track (local-ish to me tracks anyways) and have some fun in the process.

Thank you,

Tim

Exchange rate is calculated on a per-item basis when you do the deal. It's "how much real money (our money ) did you hand over for the part."

That Camaro would need a FMV to compete. 

You need to budget what a regular customer would have spent. 

SVreX said:

It says "direct exhaust out of body to rear of car". That means don't stick it out the front bumper pointing forward.  It also means you can't just stick it out the side of the car without a bend of some sort to direct the exhaust to the rear of the car.  You can't blow exhaust at the driver, or a competitor on the other lane.

If it had meant a full exhaust with continuous piping to the back bumper of the car, it would say so. 

Since we all know many, many race cars do not have full exhaust, it is unreasonable to interpret this otherwise. 

This is correct. 

AWSX1686 said:

Exhaust questions:

1. Is there a requirement for where the exhaust exits the car? (Side pipes, hood top exit, fender exit, etc.)

 

2. Can the exhaust route through the passenger compartment?

As in, engine bay space is limited, and the car is low. Can the exhaust enter the passenger foot well and exit out the side of the car? I would most likely put in a sheet of metal to make a "new passenger foot well".

3. Are open headers an option or does the exhaust have to exit the vehicle?

See the post above.

Tom Suddard said:

Regarding tires:

The tires that were on the car when you bought it are not free, rather they're already in your budget as a part of the car's purchase price. That's why you can sell off tires that come with a car to reduce its budget impact. 

So, assuming I'm understanding correctly, the answer to the original question:

My Challenge car came with 4 tires, I bought 2 drag slicks and I came across 4 road race tires in the scrap pile at the track. The slicks go in the budget, and the race tires were free, I think? If I want to use two of the original tires the car came with as front drag tires ,how do I budget this?

would be SVreX's answer- that all of the tires would be free (can use the ones that came with the car as part of the purchase budget, assuming the 4 road tires were truly 'free' in that anyone could grab them they'd be $0, and the 2 drag slicks would be 2 of the 'free' tires allowed per car) in this case?

I am going to be ordering my pass in the next day or two before the price hike. I have a couple of possible team members that are on the fence. If they decide they want a ticket, can they be added later? 

In reply to Ashyukun :

In that case, all 8 tires would be free, assuming you were wise enough to claim your 2 drag tires and 2 of the other tires as your "free" set. 

In reply to singleslammer :

Yes they can.

Tom Suddard said:

DjGreggieP said:

I have a few challenge related questions, due to my location I am mostly doing it as a 'playing along' kind of thing.

Car in question is an 86 Camaro that my mother has gifted to me. Been in the family and sitting around the farm for roughly 15 years. Do I need to put an actual monetary value on it or does it classify as a free car?

Secondly, in regards to purchasing parts, two things.

I am in Canada. Do I convert money spent on the same day as part purchase or tally total at the end?

My day job is parts counter at Napa, so my price is different from over the counter price. Do I budget at my total spent or total what a regular customer would have spent?

As I said, this is mostly as a playing along kind of build to see how innovative I can be to get the car back on the road then on track (local-ish to me tracks anyways) and have some fun in the process.

Thank you,

Tim

Exchange rate is calculated on a per-item basis when you do the deal. It's "how much real money (our money ) did you hand over for the part."

That Camaro would need a FMV to compete. 

You need to budget what a regular customer would have spent. 

Awesome, Thank you! Now to determine what a low mile but rotten third gen is worth! And Saving receipts and marking down what an over the counter customer would have paid.

Thank you Tom!

No problem, happy to help!

Budget/spreadsheet question: How should I show on the spreadsheet any parts removed from the car for $2016?

For example, on the first row of the Purchases worksheet I'd show our net budget from last year($981.64), correct? We're removing $168.64 in parts that were purchased and installed on the car last year. They aren't recoup, so I wouldn't enter them on the Recoup worksheet. Should I just enter the difference in the first row on the Purchases worksheet($981.64-$168.64 = $813.00) with a comment explaining the difference?

In reply to Pete Gossett :

Tom...Pete has joined Team Bolus and Snopes as our CFO and is trying to get our spreadsheet prepared.  Can we just plug in individual expenditures from the 2016 build omitting what we have removed?  E.g.,  most of the items we're  backing out are related to parts purchased to get fuel injection operable.  This year we've converted to carb so EGR block off plates, FI fuel pump, FI fuel tank sock, etc. we purchased last year are being pulled off car.  We will have a new fuel pump, carb, manifold added to 2017 budget.

We're not trying any budget shenanigans...right now it appears we're well under the $2017 limit.  Just want to have a little room in event this old car has room for further development in 2018.  Yeah, we're hooked on this challenge madness.

I guess question is can we just back out 2016 items removed  from car with a letter of explanation and start a new as if 2017 was first year budget?

As  Maynard G  Krebbs may say   "Oh Oh",   981.64 is the total Cost of your car,   You are removing 168.64, you   now have 813.00 invested.

this must be right , the Fiero that I am buying from Jeremy is approxamately 1000.00 dollars he say's enough Parts can be sold off to  "0" the car and it still be driveable.  this is a quirk I am Counting on, although I won't be selling much,  IF  anything.   Those parts my be used on another challenge car.  Were I not such a Hoarder I have plenty of stuff to sell but can't seem to do it.

In reply to Ovid_and_Flem and Pete Gossett :

That's not quite right. The right answer is, "It depends"  

If the parts you are removing from your budget were part of the original purchase, then yes, you can remove them, but they DO count towards your recoup.

If the parts you are removing were a separate line item (with an individual price), take them off and scratch the line  

You are building a NEW budget for 2017- budgets don't (really) roll over.  So, if the item was part of a purchase related to what you are bringing, you'd have to recoup it.  If it's not on the car at all, it's not on the car at all  

GTXVette:  everything you remove from Jeremy's car would hit your recoup budget.  When Jeremy says you can "zero out" a $1000 car, he means you would have zero recoup left.  And if you use the "free" parts in another Challenge car, you'd have to FMV them  

Svrex...parts were NOT part of original purchase.  We understand the rule but don't understand how to enter/remove parts from 2017 spreadsheet.  More of a spreadsheet question than a rule question. Thought we made it clear.

In reply to Ovid_and_Flem :

I understand. 

You are not recycling a 2016 budget. You are building a 2017 budget. Purchase price + parts on the car as it appears in 2017 - recoup up to the limit = Challenge budget.  There isn't anything to remove from the budget unless you are trying to carry over your 2016 budget.

In other words, if it's not in the car, it's not in the budget. 

In reply to SVreX :

So essentially we will be ok to start with a new spread sheet for 2017 showing purchase price, parts we purchased that are still on the car from 2016, 2017 parts added in this year's spreadsheet.  For example, we had to purchase a $60 50 psi fuel injection fuel pump last year.  This year that will be replaced with a $30 6 psi fuel pump to feed our now carb motor.  We don't get any recoup, but we have to declare $30 new fuel pump in our budget.  Essentially we don't list Last year's expenditure that is not on car.  

Like I say we're not trying to play fast and loose with budget just trying to make it clear.  Fortunately we'll still be well under 2017 limit.

Thanks for your input.

In reply to Ovid_and_Flem :

Yup. 

In reply to SVreX :

Thanks Paul, makes perfect sense. :-D

In the event rules it states: "Drivers must wear a helmet at all times." Are there any regulations regarding helmet standards, dates, certifications, etc? 

We have DOT Approved/SA2005 rated helmets, and need to know if we need to buy new ones before the event.

As I read rules as 2005 are still good for scca and nhra.

Pete Gossett said:

In reply to SVreX :

Thanks Paul, makes perfect sense. :-D

Think of it as if those parts never existed is the simplest way of putting it for future questioners

I also have a question about recoup.

I understand that you may recoup UP TO the full purchase price of the vehicle (total recoup not to exceed 50% of the annual budget).

My question is simple, and I feel like it's an obvious yes, but it's late, and we've been inhaling too many old crappy car fumes this weekend, LOL. Anyways, say a competitor finds a "lot" or "bundle" of parts on craigslist for said old crappy car that contains a few items that would prove useful to the competition, and several others that may not, but the seller insists on it being sold as a complete lot. If the competitor were to sell off the remaining pieces, would the sales prices of those sold pieces of the "lot bundle" be recoverable to the budget? And, does the "Sell it to your personal collection" clause apply in this case?

Thanks again for answering! This is our first year, and we don't want any issues with technicalities.