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Stampie
Stampie UltimaDork
11/13/19 7:26 a.m.
frenchyd said:
Stampie said:
Mndsm said:
Stampie said:

The rules aren't up right now so this is me paraphrasing and going off my memory.

Body on frame car you use the production frame rails which can be shorten for wheelbase then you have unlimited body mods.

Unibody frame if you keep the unibody you are good.

Tube frame cars must use production body and it's must not be modified.

By this logic, if locost with say, Volkswagen body, should be close?

Look at Joe's Subaru van. Tube chassis with a skinned body on it. And if I were doing that I'd go real light. Say a skinned Bradley GT. 

When I asked along those lines I was told that the cost of making the mold of a body part  was exempt 

Therefore if you made a mold of a lotus 7 nose and took a part from that mold only the material cost of that part would count.  But since the nose is really the only real identifying part of a Lotus 7. ( maybe the fenders? ) but are fenders required? 
 

 

When did you ask because the rules change over the years. 

Mndsm
Mndsm MegaDork
11/13/19 7:30 a.m.

In reply to Stampie :

Part of what he says I believe is correct. When Tom was talking about fiberglass and the Ed malle style cars- he flat out said only the materials on the car counted- and even said if you really wanted to penny pinch you could weigh the paint used down the gram and use that. Now where I don't know if that would play is in the lotus 7 department- since it technically isn't a factory panel, nor a factory chassis at that point, but clones of both. 

Mndsm
Mndsm MegaDork
11/13/19 7:31 a.m.
Stampie said:
Mndsm said:
Stampie said:

The rules aren't up right now so this is me paraphrasing and going off my memory.

Body on frame car you use the production frame rails which can be shorten for wheelbase then you have unlimited body mods.

Unibody frame if you keep the unibody you are good.

Tube frame cars must use production body and it's must not be modified.

By this logic, if locost with say, Volkswagen body, should be close?

Look at Joe's Subaru van. Tube chassis with a skinned body on it. And if I were doing that I'd go real light. Say a skinned Bradley GT. 

If only you had a Bradley gt body.....

Stampie
Stampie UltimaDork
11/13/19 8:21 a.m.

In reply to Mndsm :

What I think is funny is people not seeing the forest for the trees. Ok so build a tube chassis. Is it built to nhra specs?  No then you can't run fast enough in the drags. Plus you're limited to factory body. That's Joe's problem. Cool van but you're limited in what you can do. But ... in that same section of rules there's the word "unlimited". Unlimited is a big berkeleying loophole. 

Edit. And Ed's Mustang uses factory unibody so yes he can make all the body panels out of carbon fiber. 

Stampie
Stampie UltimaDork
11/13/19 8:34 a.m.

I'll just leave this here.

Pete Gossett said:

Stampie said:

So I'm getting better. I've added curves to my stick figures. Realized that the engine compartment was too short for the engine but I was also being to generous with the cockpit. Adjusted those and did a side view.

Sure looks a lot like a Locost to me. Do you need to borrow my book

RichardSIA
RichardSIA Reader
12/1/19 1:03 p.m.

Since when has a Lotus 7 not been a production car?

Sure they sold many as kits, but they also sold complete cars, of which I've driven a Mk. II example, Sprite engine, wire wheels, and an SCCA log-book showing production car status.

I fail to understand the ban on "Kit Cars" anyway, with the mods commonly done here it seems pointless.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
12/1/19 5:00 p.m.

The point is that SOMETHING has to be part of an original production vehicle. 

Ed Mahle’s car is a Mustang with a modified body. 

A Volkswagen body on a Locost frame is a Volkswagen with a modified chassis. 

Joe’s car is a Subaru with a swapped chassis and motor. 

Stampie
Stampie UltimaDork
12/1/19 5:15 p.m.

In reply to SVreX :

I agree with you. Might want to mark down the date. wink

RichardSIA
RichardSIA Reader
12/1/19 9:39 p.m.

Got into this thread trying to look up the current rules since I had some time to kill.

But if I have this right, I could re-body one of my Spitfire/GT6 chassis with a scratch built body, and change out the drivetrain,  just so long as I do not use a "Kit Car" body since the GT6 was a "Production" car?

Sorry, still makes no sense to me.

Lots of old very cheap kit bodies floating around, there's a beat and sun-burned VW/Bradley GT a few blocks away from me.

Slide the GT6 chassis and a running engine under it and there is no rational reason it should be rejected.

Stampie
Stampie UltimaDork
12/1/19 9:48 p.m.

In reply to RichardSIA :

If production frame rails or equivalent unibody structures are retained, then exterior bodywork modification is unlimited, provided no safety rules are violated.

Spitfire chassis sure looks like it has frame rails.

 I'm not understanding how you interpreted "unlimited" to no kit car body.

RichardSIA
RichardSIA Reader
12/1/19 9:51 p.m.

Come to think of it, didn't I see a Manx style buggy body build, screwed onto something other than a VW pan?

Manx type buggies are most certainly kit cars.

Stampie
Stampie UltimaDork
12/1/19 9:57 p.m.
RichardSIA said:

Come to think of it, didn't I see a Manx style buggy body build, screwed onto something other than a VW pan?

Manx type buggies are most certainly kit cars.

What was it screwed onto?  Was it it screwed onto a production frame rail or equivalent unibody structure?  The current rule doesn't  say a VW kit car must be on a VW pan.  And remember rules change over the years. What was ok 10 years ago may or may not meet current rules. 

slowbird
slowbird Dork
12/1/19 10:19 p.m.

The way the rule is currently written, either you put any body you want on production frame rails/pan/hacked up unibody structure...or you put any custom frame design you want under a completely unmodifed production body.

Meaning, a Bradley kit car body on production VW pan should be allowed. The kit car status of the Bradley is moot, the pan is what counts. You could also mount the Bradley body on a lifted 4x4 Chevy truck frame if you wanted.

Conversely, Locosts dont usually use a production body, but if you find a legit body with some sort of VIN-like plate (or whatever was used at the time, I know VIN was not a universally standard thing in the past) and put *that* onto a custom homemade frame, then sure, that should be allowed into the challenge. That's basically the same thing as the Legends car with the tiny van body on it.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
12/1/19 10:23 p.m.

Correct. 

Kits car bodies are not prohibited.  They need to be on production frame rails (which can be modified)

RichardSIA
RichardSIA Reader
12/2/19 12:06 a.m.

So, I retain the Spit frame rails and build a space-frame structure over/around them then mount any body I want including a "Kit Car" body and all is well.

But if I do the same sans the Spit rails I'm verboten.

Umm, okay, still not sure of the logic excluding "Kit Cars" as most utilize one or more production car donors. 

Maybe I should look for a set of American Bantam frame rails to achieve "Production" chassis status with negligible weight and strength contributions. ;-)

When will the new rules be published for closer examination?

And really cheap donors tend to not have titles, another issue?

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
12/2/19 5:01 a.m.

In reply to RichardSIA :

Kit cars are not excluded. 

Locosts are not excluded. 

Titles are not required. 

2019 Rules

Stampie
Stampie UltimaDork
12/2/19 6:44 a.m.
SVreX said:

In reply to RichardSIA :

Kit cars are not excluded. 

Locosts are not excluded. 

Titles are not required. 

2019 Rules

Not excluded provided you use production something.  Make a locost using two C10 frame rails as your bottom rails then good to go.  Bolt your kit car body on a 76 Lotus Elite frame then good to go.  Bolt a Crosby body on a scratch built space frame then good to go.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
12/2/19 7:43 a.m.

In reply to Stampie :

Yes, there are other rules. I was just reacting to his “kit car exclusion”.

All participants should read ALL of the rules. 

Stampie
Stampie UltimaDork
12/2/19 8:27 a.m.

In reply to SVreX :

We’re agreeing way to much the last two days. When did you realize I was always right?

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
12/2/19 9:29 a.m.

In reply to Stampie :

You’re getting old. 

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