Best Muscle Car Chassis for the Challenge?

I have a hard time starting a project that I don't have a committed dream towards; I know that if I'm ever to enter the challenge it's going to be with something I want and not necessarily something that ends up in my lap. I know I really want some flavor of classic American muscle car, but I can't think of anything prior to 1980 that could actually be competitive on the budget and best research has said so far implies I'd be using either the 1970-81 GM F-body or some of the Mustangs. So I's asking- if you were to start looking for a GRM Challenge muscle car what would you look for and why?

The nature of the challenge is that you should buy whatever appeals to you aesthetically and is cheap. You are going to be re-engineering every other aspect of the car to the point where the factory build does not matter. 

I would buy something that is a known quantity in the autocross realm, then figure out how to mimic their suspension upgrades for $1.98.....that's basically what I did , but with a Miata in 2017. CSP Miatas are common and it was pretty easy to copy spring rates, sway bar sizes, and find gummy tires for it. It was a second place (tie) in the autocross and fourth fastest overall. You could do something similar with Mustangs, Camaros, or some GM intermediates that run in CAM classes.

In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :

Play to it's strengths.

Muscle cars aren't known for autocross, but they often excel at drag racing.  Build a muscle car that can run the drags well, and work on its turning. 
 

There have been plenty of muscle cars that have done well with that formula. 

In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :

You're thinking about this wrong.  You aren't looking for a muscle car chassis.  You want the muscle car look.  Cheapest way is to find a rusty parts car.  Missing floor and all that.  Skin it then build a tube chassis to put it on.

Disclaimer-early Mustang derivative owner here-1969 Cougar-with significant suspension, steering, and braking mods.  
 

Of those two platforms and assuming early/first gen of both ('65-'73 Mustang-slight differences bet. '65-'70 and more in '71-'73-and '67-'81 Camaro) I'd suggest the F bodies due to their front suspension.  Better design and much better engine bay clearance than the Mustang/Cougar/Falcon/Comet.  Both of them are live rear axle-Ford products using leaf springs though I can't speak to GM products.  Both offer extensive options for mods)
The second generation Mustang 1974-1978 is a Pinto derivative and very small though it will accept old school cam-in-block V8's.  Pintos scored some road racing successes though both it and MII are generally scorned by the Mustang faithful.  

In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :

I think you need to describe your needs better. 
 

Im hearing you say that you want a car you will KEEP after the event, and that it should be an American muscle car. Does that mean no modern motor swaps?  Does that mean muscle car skin, or drives like a muscle car?  Are you ok with major rust?  Do you want a big project?  Can you weld?

What is it about muscle cars that you like?

With significant fabrication, it's possible to make nearly anything competitive. We just had 2 different 1960's vintage cars do very well. 
 

If your approach is to buy a desirable muscle car and use bolt-on after market parts, yeah you will probably blow up the budget. 

1979 thunderbird. Chop, drop, section, profit. 
Install a sexy 4 speed for bonus points, slide the engine back about 18". 

Duster's AMC Spirit is probably one example of a muscle car er chassis that did well at the Challenge. Maybe he'll share an opinion. 

Short answer: whatever you can find.

Cars not sought after from the muscle car era are rising in price. Think Hornet, Gremlin, Rambler American, etc. 80s Malibus can fill that need, but prices are on the rise. Same with Mavericks, Darts, even Pacers command a premium if enough of the car hasn't turned into air. Heck, the Japanese mini muscle cars are through the roof.

To get cheap, I think a 90s-00s Mustang, Camaro, or Challenger is about as cheap as you can get. Maybe a Ranger or S-10?

78-80 GM G-body(Cutlass, Regal, Monte Carlo, Grand Prix) was the first thing I thought of. They usually are cheaper than the 81-88 models, and there's tons of circle track knowledge and parts out there for them.

SV reX said:

In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :

I think you need to describe your needs better. 

Honestly? I've been trying to nail down what I want for years because it's kind of nebulous, let alone trying to get over my nervousness about buying. I have this horrible problem of seeing something I think I might want, but then not acting on it because I don't 'know' (which is funny considering the mountains I moved for my home and current car).

Im hearing you say that you want a car you will KEEP after the event, and that it should be an American muscle car. Does that mean no modern motor swaps?  Does that mean muscle car skin, or drives like a muscle car?  Are you ok with major rust?  Do you want a big project?  Can you weld?

Relearning to weld now, would only prefer something carbed (daily is a Tesla, so I'm thinking to have something that is the complete opposite). I've never owned a "muscle car" before so I'd want to keep the suspension mods simple until I can understand what I want. I don't mind a big project now that I'm out of school.

What is it about muscle cars that you like?

I sometimes want the automotive equivalent of a Motorhead album. The whole reason I'm here, is because I saw Fury Road and I wanted to make a vehicle that would fit that mold while also being something fun and exciting to drive- and because honestly, the dudes of GRM do the practical, scrappy stuff I dream of doing. I've been steadily building my capacity of knowledge and ability to visualize but obviously I only have so much time.

This is hard to say, so I'm sorry if I get into some personal weeds here- but I've been personally struggling with figuring out and understanding what I want for this hobby outside of just a nebulous idea, and I recently (once college was complete) had an epiphany that I've really never made a consistent "plan" for any project car I've wanted to get; I think it's apart of why I've had difficulties in adhering to a car plan or difficulties in buying a project, because I just don't have a mental map in my head of what I want until semi-recently. When I start threads like this, it's because I feel like I have all this ready knowledge and it's something I could start, but I also feel like I'm lost in the minutae and details of possibility and I either need to just buy a canvas, or if I need to do more research. I hope that indecisiveness makes sense (I've recently begun trying to draw and use AI modeling to get concepts of what I want to some success).

If you have no plan, then you will get exactly where your plan is leading.. nowhere. 

In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :

Sounds like you are not a purist.  That opens up a lot of opportunities. 
 

If Fury Road is your standard, seems like you can start with just about any hulk you can find, and start welding.

Not sure what "competitive" means to you. If it means "potential of winning the Challenge overall" then a Fury Road style muscle car with a carburetor and minimal suspension changes will be difficult. You're gonna have to make that thing run 10's and manage to get it to turn. 
 

If "competitive" means appreciated, noticed, and a welcome part of the Challenge event and community, then get your ass down to Gainesville.  You'd be shocked how well you'll be received. 
 

A Fury Road style car would kill it in the Concours, and have a decent showing in the drags.  But it would definitely be appreciated by fellow competitors and get attention!

Stop overthinking it. Come have fun!

It took me a few crappy car projects to figure out what I actually wanted to build, own, and enjoy. And I'm still not 100% sure. So you're in good company.

I did pick out some goals from your posts though. You want to get back into welding and learn some new skills. You want to do some old school carbed V8 stuff. You want to build something kinda ratty and badass. It sounds like you just want to have fun, and that's what this hobby is all about. I see no harm in picking up a random new project and diving in, other than a bit of money and time. Let your heart decide on the car.

I recommend something in decent shape (minimal rust and as complete as possible, especially glass and body parts) but without an engine. Then do the 4.8/5.3/4l60e thing, or the Small block Chevy / th350 thing, or whatever. Just go have fun. Worst case you realize this isn't the type of car you want to build, and now you have a better idea of what you want.

Real answer: 4 door versions of the muscle cars you typically see at car show. Nova and Chevelle especially the mid 70s ones, Falcon (Mustang). Also bigger stuff like Monte Carlo, Torino, etc. You can do fine at the Challenge with reliability, enough power, and spring rate.

My argument is for the SN95 mustang. Incredibly cheap, abundant, same platform more or less for bout 25 years (shares parts with the foxbody, fairmont, capri, etc) and also has abundant parts that work from various vehicles like explorers, navigators, corwn vics/grand marquis, and lincoln town cars. they are easier to make handle decently well than people give them credit for and did i mention they are cheap?

Like many above have said, it all comes down to what you want to do, but if its purely based on price and parts availability, i do not think you can go wrong with an sn95. 

In reply to surfshibby07 :

Sn95's are the devil 

Toot said:

In reply to surfshibby07 :

Sn95's are the devil 

Apparently the devil has big potential, half decent looks, abundant possibilities, and is nigh on free in any market. Consider me a fan. 

The best muscle car chassis for the Challenge is the one that you bring to the Challenge.

The second best muscle car chassis is SN95 mustang.

surfshibby07 said:

My argument is for the SN95 mustang. Incredibly cheap, abundant, same platform more or less for bout 25 years (shares parts with the foxbody, fairmont, capri, etc) and also has abundant parts that work from various vehicles like explorers, navigators, corwn vics/grand marquis, and lincoln town cars. they are easier to make handle decently well than people give them credit for and did i mention they are cheap?

Like many above have said, it all comes down to what you want to do, but if its purely based on price and parts availability, i do not think you can go wrong with an sn95. 

I'll second an SN95.  I had one for a while, what I started to learn to autocross on.  A 95 Mustang GT.  It was just as much about the build as it was learning to drive it for me.  It's surprisingly capable with the right set of upgrades.  Stock...not so much.

Best bet is to shop the Maximum Motorsports website and then figure out how to copy everything they offer for super cheap (which will not be easy).  Fun project though :)

eastsideTim said:

78-80 GM G-body(Cutlass, Regal, Monte Carlo, Grand Prix) was the first thing I thought of. They usually are cheaper than the 81-88 models, and there's tons of circle track knowledge and parts out there for them.

Same. If you want buggy spring rear suspension instead, s10.

Finding a "classic" muscle car under budget is probably the toughest part of this question, though I know it can and has been done. I think your guess about using a 3rd gen-up F- or G-body GM, Fox body-up Mustang, and C4 Corvette are the most likely candidates to find under budget and would have good budget-friendly parts and mod support. Alternatively: Mustang II/Pinto or AMC Eagle. You might find the occasional '70s Volare or Duster, Maverick/Torino/T-Bird/Mercury equivalent, or GM colonnade in budget, but I think you'd be starting with a disadvantage.

In reply to darkbuddha :

I've been keeping an eye out for a challenge-legal Colonnade for a while now.  Any I see in that price range either don't run, have no title, the roof is rotted through from the vinyl top, or the frame looks like it'll snap in half on the autocross course, or some combination of all four.

Agree that 3rd Gen f bodies, while getting harder to find cheap, are a good option.  I have noticed it seems like half the budget C4s I see (at least the crossfire 1984 models) have had their fuel injection ripped off and a carb installed already.

I'm going to say the one that isn't all rusted out considering where we are at!

I know the perfect challenge car is parked in a storage lot here in town. No clue who the owner is but it's a Buick G body that looks like it has a snail under the hood and has been there for as long as I've been walking that trail which is over 2 years now.