Let’s talk about paint.

Chris convinced me to try Urethane enamel  and now I'm going to practice what I preach. Where we park the buses is a body shop. Walking through the shop I saw the usual  supply of 1/2 used cans of paint etc. 

Same as every paint shop I've  ever been in.  
 If I can find enough paint and they are willing to give it to me or charge a nominal price how do I treat that for budget purposes?  
   I have blended and mixed plenty of partial cans most of, " yeh just take it "  not wanting to risk problems.  
      Obviously it's not worth new retail, but free?  
   What's the right way?  If I need to by catalyst   or something just add that?  Or some formula or calculation for the left overs? 

Hmmm first you're not doing the Challenge. 

But if you were to get it at work that would count as an inside deal so you would have to FMV it.  If you were to randomly walk into a paint shop with no prior or future relationship and they gave you free paint it would be free.

frenchyd said:

Chris convinced me to try Urethane enamel  and now I'm going to practice what I preach. Where we park the buses is a body shop. Walking through the shop I saw the usual  supply of 1/2 used cans of paint etc. 

Same as every paint shop I've  ever been in.  
 If I can find enough paint and they are willing to give it to me or charge a nominal price how do I treat that for budget purposes?  
   I have blended and mixed plenty of partial cans most of, " yeh just take it "  not wanting to risk problems.  
      Obviously it's not worth new retail, but free?  
   What's the right way?  If I need to by catalyst   or something just add that?  Or some formula or calculation for the left overs? 

It depends if you are going to collect enough to share. . .

They have to pay to dispose of hazardous waste.....so.....

Stampie said:

Hmmm first you're not doing the Challenge. 

But if you were to get it at work that would count as an inside deal so you would have to FMV it.  If you were to randomly walk into a paint shop with no prior or future relationship and they gave you free paint it would be free.

Just because I can't join you guys doesn't mean I can't conform to the rules and race a car now does it?  
   As far as free vs FMV  goes. I think I know how to approach a shop owner and get some of them to "donate"  their left overs. Not saying everyone will. But I'm reasonably confident I could find someone who would.  
   But I think that comes close to violating the don't be a dick rule doesn't it?     
    I am trying very hard not to be one, so if you feel I'm too close or actually over the line I'll take a different approach. 
    
 

In reply to frenchyd :

You've already stated that your car would be over budget for the Challenge. I just don't understand calling it a Challenge build when one you're not bringing it to the Challenge and two you're picking and choosing what rules you want to follow.

Seriously.

Tom made things pretty clear about making up your own "Challenge"

 

Tom Suddard said:

Sorry, but you'll have to attend the $2000 Challenge in order to compete in the $2000 Challenge. Additionally, Grassroots Motorsports will defend our trademark as necessary. 

I would take his not-too-subtle hint.

I've heard rumours of the 2023 subclass being sbc swapped jags. 

With regards to the paint, It's clearly stated in the rules if there's the sponsorship involved or donation that is asked for and wasn't posted for anyone to take advantage of that is the value is assessed if fair market value. Now if you go around the back of the shop and paint was disposed in the dumpster you could take it out of the dumpster and then it would be free. (Though it would also be an EPA violation the fines of which would exceed challenge budget). 

I was considering orchestrating my own ice race this weekend, but then I remembered that this isn't where ice racing occurs, it's been in the 50s the past few days so in reality I'd merely be driving my car into a lake. Some things are best left to the proper location where the organizers hold it. 

In reply to Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :

But isn't there something about things that are readily available to anyone?   
     Most paint shops have left over paint and have to pay to legally dispose of.  
Again I'm trying very hard not to be a dick. So if that crosses a line?  
     Seriously, am I the first to ever use left over or mis- mixed paint?   My sister's MGTD was a bright yellow mixed with a splash of white and the fenders were white with a splash of bright yellow.  Trailers were always painted with left over paints.    The trim and shutters on my first house were a pale blue I got from Sears mis-mixed paint for $2.00 a gallon.  Some white and a lotta blue. 
   

In reply to frenchyd :

We get that, again it's been stated clearly that it has to be offered to the general public universally. If I drove up from VA and that shop offered the same deal to me and anyone else who walked in off the street (and it's a completely legal process), you'd be good. If it's because you know a guy, that's not allowed.

If you walk into Sears and find your paint, buy it and submit your receipt.

I used to get a Miata hardtop for $1000, now they are $1,500+. If my buddy sells me his for $1,000, that's not allowed.

frenchyd said:

The trim and shutters on my first house were a pale blue I got from Sears mis-mixed paint for $2.00 a gallon.  Some white and a lotta blue. 

Are you bringing it to the challenge?

Dead_Sled said:

frenchyd said:

The trim and shutters on my first house were a pale blue I got from Sears mis-mixed paint for $2.00 a gallon.  Some white and a lotta blue. 

Are you bringing it to the challenge?

He's never bringing anything to the challenge and should probably stop bench racing because he'd finish mid pack at best while cheating and thinking he's going to pull one over on everyone and win.  

In reply to Patrick :

Finishing below mid pack is fun if your vehicle gets there, even if you don't. The key is getting the vehicle there, even if on whoafully terrible tires for the event and making less than 130hp. 

johndej said:

In reply to frenchyd :

We get that, again it's been stated clearly that it has to be offered to the general public universally. If I drove up from VA and that shop offered the same deal to me and anyone else who walked in off the street (and it's a completely legal process), you'd be good. If it's because you know a guy, that's not allowed.

If you walk into Sears and find your paint, buy it and submit your receipt.

I used to get a Miata hardtop for $1000, now they are $1,500+. If my buddy sells me his for $1,000, that's not allowed.

Surely they have body shops where you live?  Why not try it yourself?  Walk into one, strike up a friendly  conversation when he's not horribly busy. Explain what you're trying to do and ask him about left over paint.    
       You might have to go to several  and maybe your time  is too valuable, or you're too shy, but your limitations doesn't mean it's not available.  
  
  Besides that I doubt there are many if any points for shiny paint.  
There are a lot of points  for creativity and novel thinking. Plus a smooth presentation. 
    The idea of using excess paint shop paint is yours to use if you like.  If it's the norm for cars by the time I get there I've got other ideas.  It's called creativity not cheating. 
      As far as your example of a Miata hardtop, I don't follow that at all. If you're talking about the fiberglass I bought a long time ago.  I just walked into a local Fiberglass supply store  and paid the going price.   Yes, inflation has made things massively more expensive  but there isn't a time limitation that I'm aware of.  Call it Seniors discount. There has to be some benefit to getting old ;-) 
    
     

Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Patrick :

Finishing below mid pack is fun if your vehicle gets there, even if you don't. The key is getting the vehicle there, even if on whoafully terrible tires for the event and making less than 130hp. 

    Well said.  It's about enjoying the company of like minded people not really winning.  The Nelsons do well because they think outside the box. They are creative without being extravagant.  

Patrick said:

Dead_Sled said:

frenchyd said:

The trim and shutters on my first house were a pale blue I got from Sears mis-mixed paint for $2.00 a gallon.  Some white and a lotta blue. 

Are you bringing it to the challenge?

He's never bringing anything to the challenge and should probably stop bench racing because he'd finish mid pack at best while cheating and thinking he's going to pull one over on everyone and win.  

Please try not to be so negative about others. It puts a sour taste most don't enjoy. 
    If you would read my Jaguar XJS progress you'll see exactly where I am. ( there will be a new addition tonight) 

  I'd be very happy finishing midpack or worse.  Sum total of my drag racing experience is one pass with my Honda Civic demo  probably in the late 70's. 
    Sum total of autocross experience  is one pass at speed weeks in the Bahama's 1986.  

Most body shops mix paint at the shop in todays world. So there's very little "extra paint" and if there is, it's already mixed with activator so there's a very short window of time to spray it left once done with painting the car at the body shop. If a shop switches brands that's your opportunity because they'll have paint left from the old system they won't use with the new brand.

Hobbyists and people who do side jobs at home are the ones with partially full cans of paint that hasn't been activated.

I shopped for paint on FB Marketplace and got a gallon of Sher-Kem alkyd enamel for $10.  It's basically the industrial red stuff they sell for things like toolboxes and snow blowers, so my Challenge car will be "toolbox" red, I guess.

NOT A TA said:

Most body shops mix paint at the shop in todays world. So there's very little "extra paint" and if there is, it's already mixed with activator so there's a very short window of time to spray it left once done with painting the car at the body shop. If a shop switches brands that's your opportunity because they'll have paint left from the old system they won't use with the new brand.

Hobbyists and people who do side jobs at home are the ones with partially full cans of paint that hasn't been activated.

 I know I can keep a partial can of paint for more than a decade as long as it's well sealed, so you're right.  In fact I have a whole cabinet full of partial used paint.
 Periodically I turn them over to ensure they haven't  settled out.  
 But a lot of shops I know just go buy a gallon of whatever at the local paint store. 
  Yes you're right about big shops but for every big body shop There are hundreds of  small 1 or two man shops. Or guys doing it part time  and don't have the expensive mixing equipment.  Plus those hobbiest you mentioned. 
    I don't know if that's possible in places like California.  But I suspect  it's done even if illegally.   Rumor has it the Fed Ex , UPS trucks  etc. aren't searched at the California Border. 

DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

I shopped for paint on FB Marketplace and got a gallon of Sher-Kem alkyd enamel for $10.  It's basically the industrial red stuff they sell for things like toolboxes and snow blowers, so my Challenge car will be "toolbox" red, I guess.

The Navy used that Alkyd Enamel  a lot because it held up very well to Sun and salt water.  periodically a partially full 5 gallon pail would get tossed in a dumpster.  
  I had an old Pontiac Tempest I paid $35 for that because it was near the ocean rusted from the top down.  I ground off the big rust and duct tapped over the holes. Taped off the windows and chrome and sprayed on coat after coat of paint. ( no thinner )  let it dry over the weekend and then using a razor blade cut off the runs at the bottom. 
     It looked smooth and shiny. Because it was white and had shocks that,  well, they were really tired.  We called it the great white marshmallow.  Low gear only,  filled it weekly with drained aviation (.115/145 octane )fuel ( you can't put it back in the plane )     
      Up and down the Silver strand in San Diego  it went.  Then when  I got out of the Navy and had finished restoring my MGTD. I filled the great white marshmallow with all the scrap metal and Junk parts at the Navy hobby shop  and drive it across the scrap metal place.  
     Got more than$145 in scrap for it!  

I mean, go do what you say you are, get a receipt from the shop, your good.

In reply to johndej :

I like Dead Skunks idea too!  He found paint for $10 a gallon on line.  I know Alkyd Enamel sprays easy and smooth ( and really covers.). 

Stampie said:

In reply to frenchyd :

You've already stated that your car would be over budget for the Challenge. I just don't understand calling it a Challenge build when one you're not bringing it to the Challenge and two you're picking and choosing what rules you want to follow.

Stampie;  It sounds like you're worried I might show up?  Well rest assured,  I'll be here driving the school bus, but I'll let my partners take it down .  They have had autocross experience so they will probably be a whole lot faster than I am. ( they darn sure weigh a lot less than I do).  
     Hopefully you've kept up with the progress on the Jaguar and understand my budget. If not the post is still there.  Please let me know if I'm doing anything outside of the rules. 

In reply to frenchyd :

Why reply here and quote a month old post when you know that I've read the other thread and am aware of your plans? Wanna make a bet on how bad my car will beat yours?  I've given up on explaining the rules to you as I don't think you've even read them yourself.

You've got the home court advantage  plus plenty of experiance..  but if the Jag goes down to Florida will you come up to Wisconsin and runwheel to  wheel at Elkhart Lake ?