Quickest "all motor" Challenge pass?

wheels777 said:

It just came to me that the OP was asking a specific question.  Where do you want this thread to go?  Should it morf into a challenge drag race thread?  Or are you hoping for more info on the NA efforts for your car? 

It was just one of those curiosity thoughts that pop up occasionally, but I do wonder how quick I can build a car. At this point it will be NA, despite Calvin's prodding to turbocharge all the LSes. I will ask a specific question though, Andrew. If you plug the stats for one of your Challenge cars into one of the on-line calculators ( I use the Wallace Racing one) how close do your actual performance numbers come to the calculated ones? 

DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

wheels777 said:

It just came to me that the OP was asking a specific question.  Where do you want this thread to go?  Should it morf into a challenge drag race thread?  Or are you hoping for more info on the NA efforts for your car? 

It was just one of those curiosity thoughts that pop up occasionally, but I do wonder how quick I can build a car. At this point it will be NA, despite Calvin's prodding to turbocharge all the LSes. I will ask a specific question though, Andrew. If you plug the stats for one of your Challenge cars into one of the on-line calculators ( I use the Wallace Racing one) how close do your actual performance numbers come to the calculated ones? 

We use Wallace to conversation and trends. But they typically don't do much for you if you focus on ET. But if the look at MPH and HP there is a relatively decent correlation. The issue with ET is easy to understand why they don't work if you watch Calvin's video on the torque converters. 

I watched that converter video and was rather surprised by how big a difference there was.

I've been playing with numbers on the Wallace calculator to see what gear I should be looking for. Currently the rear end has a 2.73 ratio and it'll putter through the traps at about 4600 RPM. Me thinks it needs a little more oomph.

DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

I watched that converter video and was rather surprised by how big a difference there was.

I've been playing with numbers on the Wallace calculator to see what gear I should be looking for. Currently the rear end has a 2.73 ratio and it'll putter through the traps at about 4600 RPM. Me thinks it needs a little more oomph.

 

How much converter slip are you adding?

In reply to wheels777 :

10-15% ?? That a reasonable number?

DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

In reply to wheels777 :

10-15% ?? That a reasonable number?

Depends on the "stall". Most of our good ones are 6-9. We have a high end unit that goes 2%. The cheap Challenge friendly ones are 10-15%. 

This reminds me of a conversation Andrew and I had a few years ago when I was trying to figure out the math theory of drag racing.  I had spent days doing calculations and thought I had it down before our phone call.  Andrew did those days of calculations I swear so fast it had to be in his head and then when something didn't agree with what I had gotten he says "how much did you allow for converter slip?"  Thanks Andrew for all the help you've been willing to give me and others and for leading the way so that we can tell people about the $2000 car that runs 9s.

In reply to wheels777 :

I've been watching for a stall in the 2500-3500 range, but keep getting to them in 2nd or 3rd place. The search continues as with the other important bits I still need to find.

DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

In reply to wheels777 :

I've been watching for a stall in the 2500-3500 range, but keep getting to them in 2nd or 3rd place. The search continues as with the other important bits I still need to find.

What power level?  That thing won't slip much. Maybe 5-7%. 

It's 290-300 HP stock. I do have a bigger cam , but it will require new valve springs ,timing cover and cam sprocket to be used. It'll come down to how I'm doing on budget whether it gets used or not. Otherwise ,the motor will have little done to it beside the shorty headers and a simple air intake. I keep looking for a cheap nitrous kit to possibly use. I'll be trying to keep the weight down to compensate for the lack of power. It's primary use will be autocross, so everything will be biased that way.

Hell, I would settle in the drags for next time beating 17's. I have a few 18's so far with bone stock and both V8 and boxer 4. 

Congrats Andy and some very killer rides. I thought that the 2017 run was in the 9.40 something? I will have to go back and watch the video of the pass and look. I thought it was something like 143mph at 9.43 i thought. It was one hell of a run though. That DSM car look like it will be very bad to the bone for sure with that v8. 

You guys are the one team I speak of when people talk about drag racing, super cheap cars that will smoke anything for chump change, and parts left over from other projects that are even more fun.

I'd settle for having a car actually run the drags at full potential for once... the two cars I've taken myself have a) had the transmission seal start leaking when I finally figured out when to manually shift the automatic transmission properly and b1) the turbo bypass actuator lever came loose on the 1/2 shift so I had no turbo for most of the run and b2) the drags were outright cancelled.

Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to wheels777 :

wow. Does turbo include supercharged or have there really been no supercharged challenge cars in the 11s? I love all the data you keep on the event. 

Also, we might need a new sticker or something that says "its just data". I love it

You have us thinking about doing a Supercharger project just to break the trend. 

wheels777 said:

Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to wheels777 :

wow. Does turbo include supercharged or have there really been no supercharged challenge cars in the 11s? I love all the data you keep on the event. 

Also, we might need a new sticker or something that says "its just data". I love it

You have us thinking about doing a Supercharger project just to break the trend. 

AWESOME

In reply to wheels777 :

Nah keep playing with turbos

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

We should chat about twin charging. Or even just supercharging.

There are a lot of options.

Turbo does make a better 1/4 mile option. Supercharhed is better for a streetcar and can be better for autocross.

I have a bunch of friends in the SC word and probably the two or three guys at the top of the twincharging game

The set up I am copying made almost 600 crank horsepower maxing out 80# injectors. Turbo only made max boost at 1.3 seconds and on twincharhed made it in .58 seconds and during that .58 seconds the supercharger made more power where the turbo would only habe made lag.

wheels777 said:

We have details on many aspects of the event.  Hope sharing this does not come across the wrong way

Rank	Finish	#	Team Rep	Year	Manu	Model	ET	Event
1	6	7	Andrew Nelson	1974	Datsun	260Z	9.521	2017	Nitrous
2	7	7	Calvin Nelson	1980	Pontiac	Sunbird	9.847	2019	Turbo
3	1	7	Andrew Nelson	1947	Volkswagen	Beetle	10.263	2016	Nitrous
4	1	7	Andrew Nelson	1968	Volkswagen	Beetle	10.396	2015	NA
5	2	7	Andrew Nelson	1968	Volkswagen	Beetle	10.571	2008	NA
6	9	7	Andrew Nelson	1974	Datsun	260Z	10.572	2006	NA
***	2	7	Andrew Nelson	1968	Volkswagen	Beetle	10.582	2011	NA
7	11	7	Andrew Nelson	1977	Chevy	Nova	10.659	2004	NA
8	9	7	Andrew Nelson	1969	MG	MGB	10.678	2010	NA
9	3	7	Andrew Nelson	1980	Pontiac	Sunbird	10.776	2014	Nitrous
10	2	10	Matt Step	1989	Mitsubishi	Mirage GT	10.820	2010	Turbo
11	11	7	Andrew Nelson	1947	Volkswagen	Beetle	10.821	2009	NA
12	6	57	Calvin Nelson	1963	Studebaker	Lark	10.924	2019	Turbo
13	1	14	Stephen DeFayette	1988	Mazda	RX-7	10.926	2006	Nitrous
14	11	7	Andrew Nelson	1947	VW	Beetle	10.950	2013	NA
15	4	57	Calvin Nelson	1980	Pontiac	Sunbird	11.010	2017	Turbo
16	1	50	Ed Malle	1987	Ford	Mustang	11.031	2014	Nitrous
17	2	49	Ed Malle	1987	Ford	Mustang	11.103	2013	Nitrous
18	2	53	Ed Malle	1995	Ford	Mustang	11.15	2019	Turbo
19	1	63	Erik Lawson		Datsun	280Zx	11.19	2004	Nitrous
20	4	08	Vince Coleman	1969	MG	B	11.249	2014	NA
21	1	8	Patrick Culkin	1988	Dodge	Shadow ES	11.319	2013	Turbo
22	11	7	Andrew Nelson	1962	Fiat	118G	11.465	2005	NA
23	13	68	Matt Step	1989	Plymouth	Colt E	11.468	2006	Turbo
24	3	63	Erik Lawson		Datsun	280ZX	11.486	2003	Nitrous
25	4	37	Matt Step	1990	Plymouth	Colt	11.567	2008	Turbo
26	5	57	Calvin Nelson	1963	Studebaker	Lark	11.622	2016	NA
27	2	2	Cliff Sebring		Dodge	Omni	11.629	2003	Turbo
28	4	45	Stephen DeFayette	1988	Mazda	RX7	11.632	2005	Unk
29	2	95	Ed Malle	1995	Ford	Mustang	11.636	2017	Turbo
30	4	21	Patrick Culkin	1988	Dodge	Aries	11.640	2010	Turbo
31	1	58	Jeremy Butts	1988	Mazda	RX7	11.676	2005	Unk
32	1		Patrick Culkin	1988	Dodge	Aries	11.694	2012	Turbo
33	5	18	Nathan Crisman	1990	Eagle	Talon TSi	11.737	2004	Unk
34	6	25	Patrick Culkin	1988	Dodge	Shadow	11.745	2008	Turbo
35	2	22	Patrick Culkin	1988	Dodge	Shadow	11.750	2009	Turbo
36	9	17	Steve Cammick		Ford	Mustang	11.797	2004	Unk
37	1	75	Adam Jabaay	1988	Honda	CRX	11.840	2009	Unk
38	3	99	Cliff Sebring		Dodge	GLH	11.846	2005	Turbo
39	5	67	Matt Step	1990	Eagle	Talon Tsi	11.954	2005	Turbo
40	3	47	Lon Zeigler	1969	MG	B	11.957	2016	NA
41	2	0	Cliff Sebring		Dodge	Omni	11.959	2004	Turbo
42	3	75	Adam Jabaay	1988	Honda	CRX	11.987	2008	Unk
43	4	21	Matt Wojtkowiak	1994	Pontiac	Trans Am	11.994	2013	Unk
44	5	17	Cliff Sebring	1996	Plymouth	Neon	11.998	2015	Nitrous

Its just data

 

Will Sonnet said: "no brag, just fact"  

Warren there a new number 1 for the list.  Some dorky kid from PA I think.

In reply to wheels777 :

LOL....I trust my memory in the other thread but didn't remember starting this thread at all.......I must be getting old. So, 10.396 is the target then.....I can do that with my 5.3 , I just need to get the car weight down to about 800 pounds.....piece of cake.

Edit: ....and Thank You for digging this up.

DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

In reply to wheels777 :

LOL....I trust my memory in the other thread but didn't remember starting this thread at all.......I must be getting old. So, 10.396 is the target then.....I can do that with my 5.3 , I just need to get the car weight down to about 800 pounds.....piece of cake.

Edit: ....and Thank You for digging this up.

It came up at the event this year about 5 times.  Didn't take long to dig it out the second time. 

dunno if you want to update 'the'/'your' sheet... but based on this article:
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/2000-challenge-20-years-wild-budget-builds/

I think it's reasonable to update the two "Jabaay" / "CRX" entries to "turbo" from "unknown"?

wheels777 said:

We have details on many aspects of the event.  Hope sharing this does not come across the wrong way

RankFinish#Team RepYearManuModelETEvent 167Andrew Nelson1974Datsun260Z9.5212017Nitrous277Calvin Nelson1980PontiacSunbird9.8472019Turbo317Andrew Nelson1947Volkswagen Beetle10.2632016Nitrous417Andrew Nelson1968Volkswagen Beetle 10.3962015NA527Andrew Nelson1968Volkswagen Beetle10.5712008NA697Andrew Nelson1974Datsun260Z10.5722006NA***27Andrew Nelson1968Volkswagen Beetle10.5822011NA7117Andrew Nelson1977ChevyNova10.6592004NA897Andrew Nelson1969MGMGB10.6782010NA937Andrew Nelson1980PontiacSunbird10.7762014Nitrous10210Matt Step1989MitsubishiMirage GT10.8202010Turbo11117Andrew Nelson1947Volkswagen Beetle10.8212009NA12657Calvin Nelson1963StudebakerLark10.9242019Turbo13114Stephen DeFayette1988MazdaRX-710.9262006Nitrous14117Andrew Nelson1947VWBeetle10.9502013NA15457Calvin Nelson1980PontiacSunbird11.0102017Turbo16150Ed Malle1987FordMustang 11.0312014Nitrous17249Ed Malle1987FordMustang11.1032013Nitrous18253Ed Malle1995FordMustang11.152019Turbo19163Erik Lawson Datsun280Zx11.192004Nitrous20408Vince Coleman1969MGB11.2492014NA2118Patrick Culkin1988DodgeShadow ES11.3192013Turbo22117Andrew Nelson1962Fiat118G11.4652005NA231368Matt Step1989PlymouthColt E11.4682006Turbo24363Erik Lawson Datsun280ZX11.4862003Nitrous25437Matt Step1990PlymouthColt11.5672008Turbo26557Calvin Nelson1963StudebakerLark11.6222016NA2722Cliff Sebring DodgeOmni11.6292003Turbo28445Stephen DeFayette1988MazdaRX711.6322005Unk29295Ed Malle1995FordMustang11.6362017Turbo30421Patrick Culkin1988DodgeAries11.6402010Turbo31158Jeremy Butts1988MazdaRX711.6762005Unk321 Patrick Culkin1988DodgeAries11.6942012Turbo33518Nathan Crisman1990EagleTalon TSi11.7372004Unk34625Patrick Culkin1988DodgeShadow11.7452008Turbo35222Patrick Culkin1988Dodge Shadow11.7502009Turbo36917Steve Cammick FordMustang11.7972004Unk37175Adam Jabaay1988Honda CRX11.8402009Unk38399Cliff Sebring DodgeGLH11.8462005Turbo39567Matt Step1990Eagle Talon Tsi11.9542005Turbo40347Lon Zeigler1969MGB11.9572016NA4120Cliff Sebring DodgeOmni11.9592004Turbo42375Adam Jabaay1988HondaCRX11.9872008Unk43421Matt Wojtkowiak1994PontiacTrans Am11.9942013Unk44517Cliff Sebring1996PlymouthNeon 11.9982015Nitrous

Its just data

 

LOL, this doesn't surprise me at all. You probably have better records than GRM ;)

In reply to evildky :

I sent them my file 2-3 years ago.  Look up the Challenge "did you know" thread.