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frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
4/13/22 10:41 a.m.
pres589 (djronnebaum) said:

frenchy just bring the Jag.  Read the rules and don't play in an above-budget class and bring the car.  

Thanks, at the challenge it will be under the $2000 limit.   But because I want to go vintage racing.  It will probably also have their required safety gear. 
  If that puts the car in the over class, OK

Captdownshift (Forum Supporter)
Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/13/22 10:42 a.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

He does it was SBC engines, step one to following his lead would be cylinder delete. 

frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
4/13/22 11:24 a.m.

In reply to Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :

I believe you are confused. Andrew is Calvin's father. ( nice guy in his own right)  but Calvin took a Turbo LS motor out and put a 4200 Atlas motor in. ( that's a 6 cylinder)  he is a great advocate for that motor).   
 He achieves those numbers with junkyard unopened 4200's 

   Watch his U tube postings.   It's nivlac57 on U tube. ( Calvin backwards is Nivlac)  especially watch him in his Studebaker.   Do the subscribe and like thing too.   He deserves every bit of help we can give him.   

Ranger50
Ranger50 MegaDork
4/13/22 12:09 p.m.

To answer the soap opera: if oe put it in back, no disconnect. If YOU put it there, needs disconnect. That applies up to 135mph, which is 9 sec territory.

If I come, buying a new house and if drag week doesn't kill me, it'll be same old tired formula, v8, stripped weight, nitrous, and sticky tires.

Captdownshift (Forum Supporter)
Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/13/22 12:25 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

A 4200 atlas is a Chevy with fewer cylinders then a tired V12. My comment stands...

frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
4/13/22 12:53 p.m.
Ranger50 said:

To answer the soap opera: if oe put it in back, no disconnect. If YOU put it there, needs disconnect. That applies up to 135mph, which is 9 sec territory.

If I come, buying a new house and if drag week doesn't kill me, it'll be same old tired formula, v8, stripped weight, nitrous, and sticky tires.

To repeat; Yes I had read the NHRA part of the Challenge rules. And yes Jaguar puts it there on every XJS made.   
      So no it's not required for the challenge. But it is for the real purpose I'm building the car. 
 As for your V8?  Good Luck. Wish you well 

frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
4/13/22 1:26 p.m.

In reply to Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :

Well technically the V12 has 100,000 less miles on it than the Atlas. So it's not as tired. ;-) and since when is less better  when it comes to cylinders?   I thought some is  good, more is better, and too many is just starting to get fun?   ;-) 

SV reX
SV reX MegaDork
4/13/22 1:31 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

It wasn't a "less is better" comment. 
 

I'm pretty sure he was pointing out how much easier it is to make power and still be legal for the NHRA with Chevy parts than it is with Jaguar parts. 
 

Stuff like scattershields (required, and must be in budget). Chevy parts are available at every swap meet. Jag parts, not so much. 

03Panther
03Panther UberDork
4/13/22 2:42 p.m.
frenchyd 

I'm sorry you feel that way.  I have repeatedly said I like the whole concept of the challenge. It's Can Am with a restricted budget. 
        I comment because I would like to improve it. 
    My basic premise is valid.  Why allow some safety devices with no budget hit and not allow others? 
    None of those I've suggested will improve speed one little bit.  Just safety.  

I wish I did not have to feel that way. I love a v12 jag, or a 6. And always have. I want to like your car. I've defended you when you asked reasonable questions, and accepted the answers. But it was only a short window before you went back to being argumentative, just to be an azz. 
For every time you have said something positive about the event, you have countered with MANY insulting comments about it being beneath you, so stop pretending otherwise. 
They only reason you started this car (aside from building it afterwards for what you considered real racing) is to prove you could build a v12 that would whip a Chevy in the challenge. Except you have already proved it can't, and it's not even finished yet. You have tried to start your own challenge, and became pissy when not allowed to. You are now whining because the rules of an even that you feel is beneath you, that you have stated many times you will never come to, will not let you do any old thing you want. And use what you claim is your team mates wishes a a reason to whine. How about you stop, and let one (or both) of them speak for themselves. 
You claim your going to bring a $500 jag to the challenge, but you can't do it. 
You claim you can send a jag that's under $2000 budget, but are whining about the cost of a switch? And arguing about if it's needed with people that have already told you YOU DONT NEED IT. You have also been told, by the rules, that if you want it, for any reason, no one cares if you put it in. Just add the few dollars to the budget. But Three pages later, you are still whining and arguing. You post irrelevant info. and then argue about that. No one thinks any of your "suggestions" would improve the event, and since it is abundantly clear the the entire event is beneath you, no one believes improving it is your intent. 
Just poor manners, plain and simple. 
 

03Panther
03Panther UberDork
4/13/22 2:46 p.m.
frenchyd said:

In reply to Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :

Well technically the V12 has 100,000 less miles on it than the Atlas. So it's not as tired. ;-) and since when is less better  when it comes to cylinders?   I thought some is  good, more is better, and too many is just starting to get fun?   ;-) 

So, you didn't read (or understand) what he wrote. 
But think that an attempt at being funny makes up for all the rudeness prior?

Note. It doesn't. 

Byrneon27
Byrneon27 Reader
4/13/22 3:15 p.m.

I'll go down this avenue... If a kill switch is the thing that makes your 9.98 pass an 11.49 then a kill switch is a freaking huge performance improvement. The language in that rule has been changed from years previous, apparently passes outside what is legal are not scored (previously at organizer's discretion) and getting another shot is up to the track (given the track staff's general attitude to anything that isn't a Monte Carlo its probably not likely) 

 

 

frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
4/13/22 3:51 p.m.
03Panther said:
frenchyd 

I'm sorry you feel that way.  I have repeatedly said I like the whole concept of the challenge. It's Can Am with a restricted budget. 
        I comment because I would like to improve it. 
    My basic premise is valid.  Why allow some safety devices with no budget hit and not allow others? 
    None of those I've suggested will improve speed one little bit.  Just safety.  

I wish I did not have to feel that way. I love a v12 jag, or a 6. And always have. I want to like your car. I've defended you when you asked reasonable questions, and accepted the answers. But it was only a short window before you went back to being argumentative, just to be an azz. 
For every time you have said something positive about the event, you have countered with MANY insulting comments about it being beneath you, so stop pretending otherwise. 
They only reason you started this car (aside from building it afterwards for what you considered real racing) is to prove you could build a v12 that would whip a Chevy in the challenge. Except you have already proved it can't, and it's not even finished yet. You have tried to start your own challenge, and became pissy when not allowed to. You are now whining because the rules of an even that you feel is beneath you, that you have stated many times you will never come to, will not let you do any old thing you want. And use what you claim is your team mates wishes a a reason to whine. How about you stop, and let one (or both) of them speak for themselves. 
You claim your going to bring a $500 jag to the challenge, but you can't do it. 
You claim you can send a jag that's under $2000 budget, but are whining about the cost of a switch? And arguing about if it's needed with people that have already told you YOU DONT NEED IT. You have also been told, by the rules, that if you want it, for any reason, no one cares if you put it in. Just add the few dollars to the budget. But Three pages later, you are still whining and arguing. You post irrelevant info. and then argue about that. No one thinks any of your "suggestions" would improve the event, and since it is abundantly clear the the entire event is beneath you, no one believes improving it is your intent. 
Just poor manners, plain and simple. 
 

Apparently you get confused. Let me make clear and definitive  statements.     I like the idea of the challenge.  Can Am Rules with a  $2000 budget.  I bought my Jag  to Vintage race it. Not for the challenge.  
  I'm already caged and that is in my XJS progress report I update regularly. ( as is everything that counts budget wise.  
        It isn't just a switch. ( If everyone would calm down and carefully read what I keep saying.  I'm not required to have one to meet challenge rules).   Or the fuel cell or a fire suppression system.  Things that will do nothing to make the car faster.   
 Can you agree with that? 
1. Im not required to have any of that?

2. They won't make me faster?

 If the jag is put in the unlimited class  while being built for the $2000 class I'm actually OK with the latter.  I'll know I'm under $2000.  If the car goes down with Jeff & or Erick   It will cost under the $2000 by the challenge rules except for safety items that exceed the mandate. 
    I'd like to see where I said the V12  would beat Calvin Nelson.    If I said that I'm a fool. I have said I know nothing about drag racing. But I sure admire what the Nelsons have done and the way they've done it. 
    I believe there was a point where someone said they had a big block Chevy  that would beat my V12 and I disagreed with him.   
      I live on a modest budget. Getting the 1200 miles (2400 round trip) to the Challenge is not something I can easily afford.  So I've offered my Jaguar to Jeff and Erick ( plus my truck and a trailer I used to build ) to go and have fun.  

     In an attempt to spread the word about the Challenge ( and maybe get some more readers for the magazine ) I suggested local versions of it be done by those in a position similar to mine.  
        That was not accepted, and so I made other proposals. Not to detract but rather to add. 
 I think with calm reflection and a neutral bias  nothing I've said detracts from the event.  
   It's true I've drag raced once and auto crossed once in over 50 years of competition. Yes,  I won both.  But that was the car, I just didn't screw up.  I'm sure anyone could have done as well or better. 
 My preference is Vintage wheel to wheel.  
 Never said autocrossing  is bad, drag Racing is bad.  Please find anything to refute that. 
       I've also never said a Chevy was bad ( I've bought 20 of them new over my lifetime and several used)   

 

frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
4/13/22 3:59 p.m.
Byrneon27 said:

I'll go down this avenue... If a kill switch is the thing that makes your 9.98 pass an 11.49 then a kill switch is a freaking huge performance improvement. The language in that rule has been changed from years previous, apparently passes outside what is legal are not scored (previously at organizer's discretion) and getting another shot is up to the track (given the track staff's general attitude to anything that isn't a Monte Carlo its probably not likely) 

 

 

Please, if you read, I'm not required to have a kill switch.  I-Wanted  to put that and a fuel cell and a fire suppression system in the car and not have it count against the $2000. 
  That was turned down.  
 OK. 
The car can still go down  and race.  Fine.     
     The NHRA rules that govern say that batteries in the original location  do not need a kill switch.  
 The battery is in the original location.  
Phew. !   

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard Director of Marketing & Digital Assets
4/13/22 4:04 p.m.

A fire suppression system would be budget exempt. "Fire extinguisher and its attachment hardware" is specifically exempt in the rules.

Did you read the rules?

https://2000challenge.com/rules
 

Mr_Asa
Mr_Asa PowerDork
4/13/22 4:12 p.m.
Tom Suddard said:

Did you read the rules?

I've come to the conclusion that he can't read.  He has to have an interpreter there reading posts for him, then typing what he dictates.

He never reads and comprehends what anyone posts unless it is somehow beneficial to him.

frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
4/13/22 4:18 p.m.
SV reX said:

In reply to frenchyd :

It wasn't a "less is better" comment. 
 

I'm pretty sure he was pointing out how much easier it is to make power and still be legal for the NHRA with Chevy parts than it is with Jaguar parts. 
 

Stuff like scattershields (required, and must be in budget). Chevy parts are available at every swap meet. Jag parts, not so much. 

Well you are at least partially right. Jaguar parts aren't available at every swap meet. But•••• maybe they aren't needed?   I keep pointing out the differences between Chevy production parts and Jaguar  production parts. 
  As far as making power for a modest price, I think the Nelson's have a pretty good handle on that?  Right?    
 Well I started following Calvin on his U Tube thread and he made a lot of sense. 
He did things the way I used to when I built and raced my Black Jack. 
      While there is no way the Jaguar will beat the Nelsons. I believe it will do decently. ( Different Horses for different courses)  

    Putting the turbo's on  my V12 should  make 550-600 horsepower.   And still have quick  enough spool times to allow respectable  Autocross times. 
  Finally you mentioned NHRA rules. Let me repeat what everyone seems to be confused by.  
 The battery location on all 121,000 Jaguar XJS's is in the trunk.  Where my battery will remain.  I don't need a kill switch to be legal.  

frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
4/13/22 4:29 p.m.
Tom Suddard said:

A fire suppression system would be budget exempt. "Fire extinguisher and its attachment hardware" is specifically exempt in the rules.

Did you read the rules?

https://2000challenge.com/rules
 

Thank You Tom. Yes I have read and reread the rules many times. 
  There is a difference in a hand held fire extinguisher and the bracket it's attached to.  And  a fire suppression system.  I simply assumed that since there was such great concern about an optional switch.   One I'm not required to have according to the NHRA rules.  (The battery is in the stock location. ) 
         That fuel cells and Fire suppression systems would be charged against the $2000 limit.  
 I'm OK  with  the rules.  The car can run in the unlimited budget class with those supplemental safety items added. 

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
4/13/22 4:32 p.m.
Mr_Asa said:
Tom Suddard said:

Did you read the rules?

I've come to the conclusion that he can't read.  He has to have an interpreter there reading posts for him, then typing what he dictates.

He never reads and comprehends what anyone posts unless it is somehow beneficial to him.

yeah. All of this 

SV reX
SV reX MegaDork
4/13/22 4:33 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

The rule doesn't say a word about a hand-held extinguisher. It says "fire extinguisher". 
 

Any suppression system would qualify. 

SV reX
SV reX MegaDork
4/13/22 4:45 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

I mentioned NHRA rules about scattershields.  I didn't say anything about battery relocation. 
 

You are describing a car that can run 10's. If you cross that threshold, there are a LOT of things required which will have to be in your budget.

 To go faster than 10.00, you have to have a full 10 point roll cage and must have it certified/inspected by the NHRA, window net, all SFI stuff, scattershield on the tranny, SFI balancer, flywheel/flexplate, battery cutoff (if mounted in the rear), drive shaft loops, rear end clips, among other things  

These things are ALL easier and cheaper with a Chevy than a Jag.

 

You will also need a full fire suite with gloves, shoes, etc... neck collar, NHRA license, etc. These things are not in your budget (they are not on the car), but they ARE required. 

But I'm sure you already knew this, since you are reading rules so carefully. 

Captdownshift (Forum Supporter)
Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/13/22 4:48 p.m.

In reply to SV reX :

You think that someone who's build championship pedigree wheel to wheel cars would have known how to spot and exploit that loophole within the rules without having to ask. 

SV reX
SV reX MegaDork
4/13/22 5:00 p.m.

In reply to Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :

I'd think that someone who's built championship pedigree wheel to wheel cars would know how to read. 
 

 

03Panther
03Panther UberDork
4/13/22 6:35 p.m.

In your response to me, you state many things that neither I nor anyone else has said. I'm not the slightest confused - In many threads over many years, mostly being argumentative, and bragging about how much better/cheaper your jags are than (substitute most anything here) you have made it very clear that the challenge is beneath you. Pretending you never said any of that comes as no surprise... you change everything you say on a regular basis. You current view on how the kill switch question has gone is a perfect example... not even close. But sadly, I think you really believe that. 
 

frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
4/13/22 7:45 p.m.

In reply to 03Panther :

Please hear me clearly.  I have never said drag racing or autocrossing is bad. 
  Never. 
 I have said I prefer Vintage racing wheel to wheel.  But really isn't that like saying I enjoy wine over beer or chess over baseball?  
  
  If you would be kind enough to show me where I have said autocrossing or drag racing is bad I will apologize and eat my words on this site. 
Fair enough? 

frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
4/13/22 8:19 p.m.
SV reX said:

In reply to frenchyd :

I mentioned NHRA rules about scattershields.  I didn't say anything about battery relocation. 
 

You are describing a car that can run 10's. If you cross that threshold, there are a LOT of things required which will have to be in your budget.

 To go faster than 10.00, you have to have a full 10 point roll cage and must have it certified/inspected by the NHRA, window net, all SFI stuff, scattershield on the tranny, SFI balancer, flywheel/flexplate, battery cutoff (if mounted in the rear), drive shaft loops, rear end clips, among other things  

These things are ALL easier and cheaper with a Chevy than a Jag.

 

You will also need a full fire suite with gloves, shoes, etc... neck collar, NHRA license, etc. These things are not in your budget (they are not on the car), but they ARE required. 

But I'm sure you already knew this, since you are reading rules so carefully. 

Hmm we have a 10 point cage, I haven't had it inspected.  But there is plenty of time. 
 I've gotta have a fire suit helmet etc.  to race vintage.  No I don't need a kill switch if the battery is in the original location (which happens to be in the rear  on Jaguar XJS). But I will have one.  I'll need most of the things you mentioned  for Vintage racing as well so it's not a problem.  
and as for clips? Only certain rear ends need those.  See, not everything is easier with a Chevy.  
    Luckily all the way up here in the frozen tundra we have NHRA.    A guy I used to work with is an  inspector.   As we start going that fast  during various test and tunes I'll invite him back over. 

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