Presented by Nine Lives Racing
Tazz9924
Tazz9924 New Reader
4/18/22 2:09 p.m.

Is there any reason we don't see active aero in yaw? For instance if you tool the shark fin on the back of an lmp car and kicked the back side out left or right and have the amount based on steering input. Any reason this wouldn't work or isnt used?

My thought is it likely isnt worth the added drag at speed or down force is more effective/ more efficient for adding cornering force

Id like to hear what others think

cyow5
cyow5 Reader
4/18/22 2:59 p.m.

Rules are the easy answer, but here's what these guys did for a car that won't legal in any racing class (that I am aware of):

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaItQaSlSxs

Tazz9924
Tazz9924 New Reader
4/18/22 4:07 p.m.

In reply to cyow5 :

My understanding is that moving wing was done to put the wing in cleaner air in corners

VolvoHeretic
VolvoHeretic Reader
4/19/22 10:58 p.m.

That's petty cool. I want something like that for my sway bar end links. smiley

cyow5
cyow5 Reader
4/20/22 8:13 a.m.
Tazz9924 said:

In reply to cyow5 :

My understanding is that moving wing was done to put the wing in cleaner air in corners

No, it is even called a "centripetal wing" because it is for generating lateral force in the turns. As far as clean air, they'd just mount it higher if that was really the goal. Having it tilt actually reduces the downward component and trades some off for a lateral component whereas traditional downforce relies on friction to do the lateral component. 

NOT A TA
NOT A TA UltraDork
5/29/22 12:32 p.m.

When that tilting rear wing came out I looked for info on how it might affect the front wheels regarding turn in etc. because the wing is tilting while you're turning and therefore changing the available grip of all four tires compared to the same vehicle with a stationary wing. Never found any info.

 

gencollon
gencollon New Reader
6/2/22 9:25 p.m.

 For instance if you tool the shark fin on the back of an lmp car and kicked the back side out left or right and have the amount based on steering input. Any reason this wouldn't work or isnt used?

I can think of a couple reasons this might not work so well:

1) anything you do with a little rudder is going to work the air, strip some energy away from it and also introduce turbulence, which will make the rear wing less effective.

2)controls: steer left, rudder goes trailing edge left: This makes a force that pushes the back of the car to the right... You're trying to turn left, this force is fighting you and reducing the overall force you can produce to the left, the way you want to go.

OK, so set it up the other way; steer left, rudder goes trailing edge right:  This is probably good actually. It produces a slight increase in the force the rear end of the car can produce in towards the center of the turning circle. It's not until you are counter steering in a slide, where the rudder is again pointing the wrong direction, reducing the effectiveness of the weathervane effect the big fin provides.  

3) the effectiveness of such a tiny wing mounted so far aft in dirty air is likely to be very low.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKr9VlaBGTw

IMO that supercar tilting wing looks slow to react and super lame.

It's pretty easy to generate force with wings... how about a wing mounted vertically @ the longitudinal CG of the car with a simple controlled trailing edge flap. It produces lift inward toward the center of the turning circle and a rolling moment that combats the load transfer to the outside tires. 

 

then there's this. A solidly mounted billboard does make sideforce when you get the car in a corner with slip angle. Or a crosswind XD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0l3JP_wkvk&t=814s

Are these vertical wings safe when you spin the car at high speeds? Almost certainly not.

 

Tazz9924
Tazz9924 New Reader
6/13/22 8:01 p.m.

In reply to gencollon :

That billboard is intense omg,  Thank you for the thoughtful response!

pres589 (djronnebaum)
pres589 (djronnebaum) UltimaDork
6/13/22 8:33 p.m.

The aircraft yaw damper systems I've been around, and I'm not an aero guy so this is more from an avionics standpoint (think data sources for the active stab) are reactive systems.  Meaning they take in information from the attitude system (think "the gyros") and air data and figure out how much they should assist in yaw stabilization.  They're not directly linked to the control inputs from the cockpit.  There are flight control laws that help govern how much these systems do and in what way and I do not want anything to do with that stuff.  Not saying it's impossible to figure out; it's not at a level I want to think about and be responsible for. 

You'll need to log in to post.

Our Preferred Partners
jXT1YTQsSnAzLXsKej2TzJA0VTx8SDr7NsiBHalFpUZtBOpYnCoQjZttr0iVKMkL