Dead_Sled
Dead_Sled HalfDork
2/9/21 7:17 p.m.
TheV8Kid said:

Sometimes you do stuff because it's what you like, not because it's what makes sense. 

This is GRM, if anyone understands you, it's us.

wheels777
wheels777 UltraDork
2/10/21 2:01 a.m.
I will repeat what I stated earlier..... based on details shared above and any level of legitimate research on the Jag V12, the engine is a poor choice for a new current day race engine.  Hopefully the thread can go back to focusing on the Studebaker build. 
Stampie (FS)
Stampie (FS) MegaDork
2/10/21 5:53 a.m.

In reply to wheels777 :

I tried to deflect away but I'm sorry you've had to experience this.

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
2/10/21 8:12 a.m.
TheV8Kid said:

In reply to frenchyd :

We run just about all the race cars on Flex fuel. It can be anywhere from 51% to 85%. The particular batch that we had in the Stude at this time just so happened to be E85. 

It's really cool because we have a flex fuel sensor on the cars, and it will detect the ethanol content on the fly and automatically change the tune to compensate for it.

Where do you source your flex fuel sensor? Is it something that can piggyback on a  Megasquirt? 

TheV8Kid
TheV8Kid Dork
2/10/21 8:26 a.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

We pull them off of Silverados from the junkyard. You have to remove the flex sensor to remove the transmissions, so most of the time, the work is mostly done from the last guy that was there. Cut the fuel lines and wires and away you go.

They look like this:

If that's not your style, you can order sensors from continental for like $50.

TVR Scott (Forum Supporter)
TVR Scott (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
2/10/21 8:46 a.m.

Just watched your latest video.  You guys are putting out some nice content.  Are there any little clip-on mics you could use?  I had a hard time following some of the discussion.

I really liked the info on turbos and exhaust back-pressure.  New ideas to me.

TheV8Kid
TheV8Kid Dork
2/10/21 9:09 a.m.

In reply to TVR Scott (Forum Supporter) :

Yeah. I've been thinking about adding mics for a little while. I'll see what I can do. I'm sure it can be hard to follow sometimes. Appreciate the constructive criticism!

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
2/10/21 9:37 a.m.
TheV8Kid said:

In reply to frenchyd :

We pull them off of Silverados from the junkyard. You have to remove the flex sensor to remove the transmissions, so most of the time, the work is mostly done from the last guy that was there. Cut the fuel lines and wires and away you go.

They look like this:

If that's not your style, you can order sensors from continental for like $50.

Thank you. Very handy having pictures.    How do you piggy back them into the ECM ? ( assuming it's not a GM.  Or is that complicated?   

TheV8Kid
TheV8Kid Dork
2/10/21 1:53 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

Most GM computers support Flex fuel. In some cases, you just turn it on, in other cases you have to flash a different VIN that has it enabled. 

On the Stude we are running a Megasquirt Goldbox. It's a simple case of wire it up and turn it on. Works great.

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
2/11/21 11:51 a.m.

In reply to TheV8Kid :

Thank you again. Very helpful. ( sorry I'm late responding). 
      I'm encouraged enough to try to make my Megasquirt work. I've got a new one in the box I got with the 84 Jaguar XJS that I paid $500 for. ( rust free, decent paint, good interior ). 
    It's going to be complex because most V12's sensors are analog not digital. Plus the crank sensor is in the distributor so it's not the same.  ( after 1993 it is actually on the crankshaft).  
    The reason Rust free Jaguars sell so cheap in California is because of registration laws. To Re register in California you are required to pay all past  registration fees/taxes plus current registration making old stored cars extremely expensive to license. 

TheV8Kid
TheV8Kid Dork
2/11/21 3:02 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

Cool. I'd do an external trigger wheel and do wasted spark maybe. Just my opinion.

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
2/11/21 3:31 p.m.

In reply to TheV8Kid :

Since. I can fire the ignition without the Megasquirt and all I need to do is trigger the injectors (batch fired is fine). It's what the factory does. 
    Is there a rule of thumb for how much bigger the injectors have to be to handle turbo boost and E85?  

TheV8Kid
TheV8Kid Dork
2/12/21 5:27 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

It's more horsepower based, a typical Turbo Ethanol equipped vehicle will need 0.8-0.85 lb/hr or fuel per horsepower. Divide that by the number of injectors you and and divided by 0.85 just to give yourself a little room as to not max out the injectors.

Honestly, I don't care what they used for ignition back when these engines were popular, I would put LS coils on it. They're just too dang good.

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
2/12/21 5:46 p.m.

In reply to TheV8Kid :

The 6.0 V12 used Ford crank triggered coils. So I suppose I can use that crank trigger mechanism and LS coils?   

TVR Scott (Forum Supporter)
TVR Scott (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
2/12/21 7:36 p.m.

In reply to TheV8Kid :

So what's your plan for this car from here?

TheV8Kid
TheV8Kid Dork
2/12/21 8:01 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

If it is an internal toothed wheel with a hall effect sensor you're good to go. Wire LS coils and go

TheV8Kid
TheV8Kid Dork
2/12/21 8:05 p.m.

In reply to TVR Scott (Forum Supporter) :

From here the plan is to try to go 9s with the car. At some point it needs the body pulled and the frame blasted just to preserve whats there. I'd like to add some bracing to the leaf spring mounts and convert to monoleafs at the same time. Maybe caltrac bars too. 

I'd then like to unitize the body and frame, and make a legit 8.50 cert chassis out of it. Then larger turbo and crank the boost. We'll see. Everything I just listed may or may not happen. 

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
2/12/21 8:07 p.m.

In reply to TheV8Kid :

I'm a bit worried that with the dry sump I'll run out of space.  I guess I've got to put my hands on the parts and do a little measurement. 
  What sensor inputs are required to run a megasquirt?  ( besides the crank trigger?) 

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
2/12/21 8:15 p.m.
TheV8Kid said:

In reply to frenchyd :

If it is an internal toothed wheel with a hall effect sensor you're good to go. Wire LS coils and go

The distributor is a Hall effect sensor to fire the Lucas EFI. 

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
2/13/21 5:20 a.m.
TheV8Kid said:

In reply to TVR Scott (Forum Supporter) :

From here the plan is to try to go 9s with the car. At some point it needs the body pulled and the frame blasted just to preserve whats there. I'd like to add some bracing to the leaf spring mounts and convert to monoleafs at the same time. Maybe caltrac bars too. 

I'd then like to unitize the body and frame, and make a legit 8.50 cert chassis out of it. Then larger turbo and crank the boost. We'll see. Everything I just listed may or may not happen. 

You guys are impressive.  You really opened my eyes to the potential of turbo's and engine management.  With your work on the Atlas engine.

There is a great big richly rewarding area to potentially profit from. Not just Jaguar but BMW and Mercedes V12's. 
     They are all fine engines burdened with heavy bodies and a luxury mindset.    In a light chassis They will absolutely fly.  
      Put them in a Studebaker or Ford Fairmont and they will fit just as well. Actually easier.  The Jaguar is 22 inches wide. 32 inches long.  With only a 2.75 in stroke much lower than the Atlas engine.  
      One final point. Those engines tend to attract people with deep pockets. People eager to get the performance a V12 promises.  
     I'm willing to work with you to generate some solutions.  Is that anything you can see doing?  
   

wheels777
wheels777 UltraDork
2/13/21 7:41 a.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

No.

TheV8Kid
TheV8Kid Dork
2/13/21 7:46 a.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

Sound like you have everything you need the make the efi work on the v12.

We don't walk in the circles that jaguar owners do, nor do I really want to. I enjoy drag racing. My dad enjoys land speed racing. We are racers. Perhaps I am wrong, but the typical jaguar owner is more interested in his appearance than making his car fast. We'll stick with what makes us happy. The few Jaguar owners that we do know all want LS swaps. I want to move to more modern platforms like the LT series engines, and the Ecotec 4 cylinders, or maybe a 7.3L Ford. I appreciate your love for the Jags, but they are not for us.

759NRNG (Forum Partidario)
759NRNG (Forum Partidario) UberDork
2/13/21 8:54 a.m.

I vote Ecotec.....LHU

TheV8Kid
TheV8Kid Dork
2/13/21 8:57 a.m.

In reply to 759NRNG (Forum Partidario) :

I want an LNF.

759NRNG (Forum Partidario)
759NRNG (Forum Partidario) UberDork
2/13/21 9:37 a.m.

You just want to do your extreme 'SNAIL' magic.......

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