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gabecar3
gabecar3 New Reader
5/14/18 6:21 p.m.

In reply to Ram50Ron :

Yeah that's what I figure but still it's a shame that they are more expensive it throws my turbo budget out the window... Guess I'll have to run a 200 shot on it...

Yeah around me you find a lot of cheap SBC's but none cheap in good condition; you can even find some 12:1 compression 350's off air-boats for around $500 but most of them were pulled for a reason...

A general update on work I've been doing:

I found some flat top hypereutectic pistons for a 305 for $140 which should get me to around 9.5:1 compression with the heads I have. 

Should I run an Edelbrock Performer RPM dual plane or a Holley Street Dominator single plane if I use a bug cam, high compression and nitrous?

barefootskater
barefootskater Reader
5/14/18 6:30 p.m.

Unless you switch out your lifters to solid and do some valve work, I'd use the dual plane. Modern street intakes are very good and let you use the whole motor. Single planes work, but mostly way up in the rev range. And if your cam is lumpy (low vacuum) a single plane intake is not great for much other than full throttle redline runs.

gabecar3
gabecar3 New Reader
5/14/18 6:48 p.m.

In reply to barefootskater :

Alright makes sense.

A general question to you Holley pro's out there:

I've been offered a $50 Holley carb by a friend of mine who pulled it off his boat with an SBC. I know it is a 650CFM carb but I can't find any information on it on the interwebs.

The list number is 75009-3 and date number is 1787 also has SAEJ1223 stamped on it. I want to know a couple things:

If I can use it on my 305.

I know it isn't a double pumper but I don't know if it is a mechanical secondary or a vacuum secondary since the throttle plate isn't on it and I don't see a place for the vacuum canister thing.

Would a 650 be too small? I also can get a 750 DP for $50 mechanical secondary but without a throttle plate either but I think 750 is too big...

If you guys have a Holley Double Pumper w/ a mechanical secondary laying around that would work on a 305 with a "lumpy" cam PM me and maybe we can work something out. 

Thanks for the help,

Gabe

Stampie
Stampie UltraDork
5/14/18 8:12 p.m.

In reply to gabecar3 :

Memorial Day weekend should be 50% off sales at the junkyards here. Betcha you could get a Vortec 350 for less than you'll have in pistons.  I might also know where a couple of 454s are but still in the RVs.  That might not work well for you. 

gabecar3
gabecar3 New Reader
5/14/18 9:11 p.m.

In reply to Stampie :

I'm done looking for engine's I'm going to make what i have work. Ideally i should get a 350 but since i have a 305 i can put together I'll send it till it breaks even if it isn't the best budget engine. It's my first Challenge there are a bunch of things i could have done differently that i didn't know about when i started so this year I'll just take something and blow it up half way down the 1/4 lol

But thanks for the thought.

And a 454 won't physically fit in the engine bay of an S10 much less clear the steering shaft... At least not without a welder and a few death wheels...

As of right now my plan is to put hypereutectic flat top pistons in the 305, trade my single plane for a dual plane my buddy has, drop a huge cam in it, and maybe spray it with a 150shot... From my maths that's right around 600hp w/ NOS. My biggest problem is finding a 650 cfm mechanical secondary Holley to use... I have the boat carb but i think its a vacuum seconary and it's also not a double pumper so not the best option for performance but it'll work if i have to...

CollapsitarianGearhead
CollapsitarianGearhead New Reader
5/15/18 3:17 p.m.

This thread has inspired/frustrated me to reset my password. You practically have to duck your head going into dusty barns around here to stop from getting hit by SBC’s. 

A 305 will be enough power for a S10 with good gearing, you can wring them out because even if it does blow up, you’re doing the world a favor. Don’t worry about putting a big cam in them, you will hardly notice the power. 

That being said, if you can find a way to get to southern Indiana, I’d sell you a whole 2000 Chevy 4X4 truck (complete with broken frame) for $500. complete with a good running 4.8. I’m only offering this deal to you because I’m a home schooling father that likes to (enthusiastically) support projects, ( my oldest son is a blacksmith and my oldest daughter is studying special FX, youngest two kids are setting up a hockey rink in my garage.) I’d much rather you start with a LS than a 305.  

 

gabecar3
gabecar3 New Reader
5/19/18 5:34 p.m.

In reply to CollapsitarianGearhead :

I appreciate the offer but I'm going to run with the 305 even if it's slow because I've wanted to put an SBC together for a while and now I have an excuse to. Later on I'll grab a 5.3 or a 5.7 and throw it in and actually make power. 

UPDATE:

I'm buying some flat top pistons and a "Big Mutha Thumpa" cam for the 305 cuz if it's gonna be slow I might as well sound cool going slow... lol

I've been looking around to wire my 4l80e to run without a computer and I figured out that it is quite simple but I noticed that some people say that one of the wires can be wired to make a sort of transbrake (I guess it would apply reverse when grounded or powered) but no one tells you exactly what to do with it to make a transbrake. Here's the link to the instructions on how to make it manually shifted without a computer:

http://www.atra.com/Gears/2015/2015-03/2015_3_32.pdf

See how on page 4 he says that you can use the yellow wire for transbrake but doesn't say how to use it. if anyone has any input on how I can make a transbrake this way I'd appreciate it. 

Also the reason fo ra transbrake is because its basically free if I can rewire it like in the link but I also have a 2200 stall converter and I think a higher stall would be a good idea but converters are quite expensive around here for anything above stock stall so I figure a transbrake will let me launch higher in the rpm range than 2200rpm that the converter would allow. If I am wrong feel free to correct me please.

Thanks for the help,

Gabe

gabecar3
gabecar3 New Reader
5/24/18 10:08 a.m.

UPDATE 5/24:

I have bought all the parts to build up my 305 and have received most of them so I have started to put it together:

Here is a picture of before and after I honed cyl5:

Here is a picture of me test fitting the head studs for it:

A picture of the beautiful hypereutectic pistons I got:

Finally a picture of the "Big Mutha Thumpr" cam I got:

gabecar3
gabecar3 New Reader
6/2/18 8:11 a.m.

UPDATE 6/2/18:
I got all the parts that I was waiting for to complete the 305 but I figured out that pressing wrist pins out is quite hard when you don't have a press...

Huge thanks to FlaDiver64 for letting me come over and use his press to get my new pistons on.

Once the pistons were mounted I put them all in the block and have torqued everything down in the bottom end. Now I am debating if I want to try to port the heads and intake before putting everything in the car or if I want to let it run without porting and see if I "need" to port them. 

In the meantime I have rewired the 4l80e trans so that I can run it without a computer. I am still trying to see if there is a way to wire it to a potentiometer so that I can control line pressure. Any input on that will be appreciated.

Fladiver64
Fladiver64 New Reader
6/2/18 9:37 p.m.

Looking at the diagram you have I don't see any way a potentiometer is going to affect the line pressure. Looks like he is using the pressure switches in the valve body to operate the gear select pressure switches. So the transmission will be in whatever gear the shifter is in, no automatic operation.

"The Pressure Control solenoid controls main line pressure, pulsed at 0-60% duty cycles at 293 Hz. There is a cleaning pulse (dither) every 10 seconds on this transmission (Early 4L80E). Late 4L80E was changed to 614 Hz and the cleaning pulse (dither) was omitted." So you would need a way to control the duty cycle of a Square wave signal at the correct frequency for the year trans you have.

The trans break if probably fairly easy, select first gear with the shifter and supply a ground signal to the yellow wire with a button. In theory this put the transmission in First and reverse at the same time. When you release the trans break button reverse is released and you have instant first gear. I always assumed there were valve body changes needed to make this work but that was with old school power glide transmissions so not sure how that works with a 4l80e

gabecar3
gabecar3 New Reader
6/4/18 12:04 p.m.

In reply to Fladiver64 :

I don't know how well that picture will come out but C and D out of the plug are labeled:

C - Pressure Control Solenoid Valve Controlled Power

D - Pressure Control Solenoid Valve Controlled Ground

I would assume that if I keep an open ground to it and control input voltage I should be able to control line pressure but I can't find any information to support that.

And that is correct it will be in the gear selected in the shifter which makes it a manual valve body which is what I want because a trans controller is quite expensive than an external harness. 

That is what I think I need to make a trans-brake but again no one has done it and no one shares information on what they did to make one.

gabecar3
gabecar3 New Reader
6/20/18 8:19 a.m.

6/20/18

Been a while since I've given an update but that is because I have been out of town. I'm back now.

I got the final parts of the frame side of the motor mounts in (I had to drop the control arms to get to the nuts and it wasn't fun). Picture below.

I have the 305 completely built with the water-pump, balancer, and distributor on it with new spark plugs gapped to 0.024" and two steps colder than stock (planning on running nitrous and it's 10.5:1 so I figure it's good insurance till I know if I need colder or hotter plugs). 

As far as mating the engine and transmission together and putting it in the truck. Does anyone have good advice on putting it all in. It's my first swap so still unsure how much work it will be to actually put it in. I assume the mounts will bolt up the only other issue is making the trans tunnel work but the bell-housing on my 4l80e is only 1.5" bigger than the stock transmission (and the 80e is 1/4" shorter than the stock one I had so no driveshaft mods hopfully).

Here are a couple of pictures of everything I've been getting done:

This one is of my new radiator that I am putting in. Stock was an 20x15" (I think) from 1982 new one is 26x16" (that is the measure from the cooling portion of it not from the end tank to end tank). I'll have to cut about 3" on each side of the holes in the core support so the new rad gets air flow and change the overflow bottle from the driver-side to the passenger side. The new rad also has an engine oil cooler AND a trans cooler which I need for my 305 and the 4l80e.

-Gabe

GTXVette
GTXVette SuperDork
6/20/18 6:02 p.m.

have you looked or read anything about clearance from water pump and fan to the radiator, check that. for ease of install put trans and engine together and install the radiator and core support after the engine is finished

ClemSparks
ClemSparks UltimaDork
6/20/18 9:52 p.m.

Remember to figure out your brake combo valve while the engine is out.  It's likely a lot easier to get to now than it will be with an engine and exhaust in place.  I can't tell from your motor mount photo, but I bet it's down there along the driver frame rail under the firewall.  You being able to sit where the engine should be and work on that part is preferable to laying on your back with rusty dirt bits falling in your eyes wink

barefootskater
barefootskater HalfDork
6/20/18 10:28 p.m.
ClemSparks said:

Remember to figure out your brake combo valve while the engine is out.  It's likely a lot easier to get to now than it will be with an engine and exhaust in place.  I can't tell from your motor mount photo, but I bet it's down there along the driver frame rail under the firewall.  You being able to sit where the engine should be and work on that part is preferable to laying on your back with rusty dirt bits falling in your eyes wink

QFT

gabecar3
gabecar3 New Reader
6/21/18 8:56 a.m.

In reply to GTXVette :

Yes, I have the JTR V8 conversion that I got with the truck and it said if you sink the radiator into the core support (like I am) and leave the engine in the "stock" position, using the mounts I have, then you have room for electric fans OR an engine driven fan. So I figure I have clearance between the water pump and radiator.

Okay that makes sense!

Thanks,

Gabe

gabecar3
gabecar3 New Reader
6/21/18 8:59 a.m.

In reply to ClemSparks :

Right, I haven't done it yet but I will later today. To reset it I just open a front bleeder and pump the brakes until it clicks?

The proportioning valve is sitting right under the master cylinder near the driver side fender so not horrible to work on later but probably easier when I can sit on the inside of the engine bay and work on it.

Thanks for the help,

Gabe

gabecar3
gabecar3 New Reader
7/1/18 4:43 p.m.

7/1/18 UPDATE:
Okay so I finished putting my 305 together from the carb to the pan finally.

I started to put the engine in alone since the flexplate I had was for a 2pc rms and not a 1pc rms and didn't want to put the engine and trans together just to have to pull it apart to put the flexplate on later. It fit perfectly except for a small area near where the clutch linkage sat but nothing a BFH couldn't fix. 

Once my flexplate came in a started to see if it fit on the torque converter to see if the bolt holes lined up and it was drilled 1/4" too small so I am returning it and buying another one that hopefully is drilled right. I got tired of waiting to put the trans in so I ended up putting the engine and trans together to see what clears and what doesn't and apparently a 4l80e will fit right into the trans tunnel on a first gen S10 but it will hit about 3/4" at the top of the bellhousing (it's the last 2" of the bell housing that is too tall) but it's nothing that the BFH won't fix again. 

I've recently realized how insane it is to put a 4l80e in an S10 when I asked on the S10 forums how an 80e fits in a first gen and everyone said that they didn't know because there are only two other people who have 4l80e's in S10 because the 80e is too big of a trans to put in a small truck... Guess I'm one of the few putting one in an S10.

Once the engine and trans are in its a matter of finding a +/- for the distributor on the stock harness and putting my fuel pump on and wiring it to a switch under the dash; I want it to be a sort of anti-theft device since you can open the locks on the truck with a screwdriver and it's not a very hard truck to steal if you wanted to. I also need a +/- for the trans and a switched ground for converter lock up. It should be fairly straight forward to get it running and driving since there aren't too many different wires than the original engine. If you know of any other wiring I didn't mention feel free to let me know I'm sure I'm forgetting something.

Does anyone have an opinion on running a 5-point harness with a bench seat? With my current budget and from what I've seen on craigslist I can't afford a bucket seat...

Thanks for the help,

Gabe

AngryCorvair
AngryCorvair MegaDork
7/1/18 6:33 p.m.

In reply to gabecar3 :

Good work kid!  Keep at it!

Ovid_and_Flem
Ovid_and_Flem Dork
7/1/18 8:08 p.m.

In reply to gabecar3 :

Keep up the good work. Don't forget to use 2018 classified ads here. Put a parts needed thread. 

 I'm sure somebody has an old aluminum dirt track tracks seat they would sell you cheap since it's going on a challenge car. Even if you just use it for the autocross and put your bench back in after the event. Keep the updates coming

gabecar3
gabecar3 New Reader
7/2/18 8:22 a.m.

In reply to AngryCorvair :

Thanks!

gabecar3
gabecar3 New Reader
7/2/18 8:27 a.m.

In reply to Ovid_and_Flem :

Yeah I'll definitely put up a parts needed ad for the stuff I need.

Does anyone have any ideas on putting in a removable harness bar? Since I don't have a roll bar/cage on my truck the harness bar would need to be welded to the cab. But I have plans on caging it in a year or two so I'd like to be able to remove the harness bar without damaging the cab too much. I was thinking of welding a small piece of flat iron with some holes drilled on it with nuts welded to it on one side and then the harness bar would have a similar plate that bolts go through so the harness bar would bolt to the plate on the cab making it secure but also allows me to remove the bar when I cage it...

Thanks for the help,

Gabe 

GTXVette
GTXVette SuperDork
7/2/18 9:10 a.m.

THERE ARE SEVERAL ROLL BAR KITS THAT CAN BE A REAR HOOP AND DOWN STRUTS , THEN ADD TO THAT LATER FOM THE SAME KIT

Ovid_and_Flem
Ovid_and_Flem Dork
7/2/18 10:12 a.m.

In reply to gabecar3 :

Exactly what we did to our C4 challenge car. All of the pundits say that a harness bar and harness should only be used for autocross and not track road racing events.

Fwiw harnesses are a pain in the arse for daily street use

gabecar3
gabecar3 New Reader
7/2/18 1:26 p.m.

In reply to GTXVette :

Yes but a main hoop kit with down bars is about $200-270 thats 10% or so of my budget just to install a harness.... I'm not running fast enough to warrant putting a bar and adding the weight of it

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