irish44j
irish44j MegaDork
4/24/19 6:18 p.m.

Not all that exciting to you, but to me.....one of the lousy things about the Porsche is the whole German "no cupholders" thing. I've used the over-the-sill type (which suck) and also have a RAM-mount cupholder between the seats which is nice, but too far back to be accessed without kind of turning around, which is annoying.

So decided to try out some of the cheap flip-down ones that we use on boats. Found some black ones on Amazon for $4 or something and got them in today. Just plastic, but they seem to be pretty sturdy, and just attached them right to the door with small screws. The placement is basically the only place on the driver's side that doesn't interfere with my leg or my steering, and is still a good position for a bottle of soda or whatever. I put a matching one on the other side. When closed up, they almost look 80s enough to have been stock pieces :)

*Guinness for example only* lol

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ UberDork
4/25/19 6:00 a.m.

Brocraft seems like the best possible name for boating accessories to put on one's Porsche.

Lof8
Lof8 Dork
4/25/19 8:21 a.m.

My Dad had a 944 back when I was pretty young and I seem to recall a very similar cup holder solution in his car.  That was the car that got me hooked on our hobby.

Stefan
Stefan MegaDork
4/25/19 11:09 a.m.

Had one of those flip down cupholders in my 951S.  It was screwed into the side of the center console, just above the passenger side carpet.  Not exactly handy, but it sorta worked.  Well, it did once I replaced it.  It looked like someone stepped on it and broke it.

Know someone with a 3D Printer (aside from me)?

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1532485

johndej
johndej HalfDork
4/25/19 11:29 a.m.

I've got the same cup holder in tan for my NB miata

irish44j
irish44j MegaDork
4/25/19 6:57 p.m.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

Brocraft seems like the best possible name for boating accessories to put on one's Porsche.

Exactly my thought lol.

irish44j
irish44j MegaDork
4/25/19 6:58 p.m.
Stefan said:

Had one of those flip down cupholders in my 951S.  It was screwed into the side of the center console, just above the passenger side carpet.  Not exactly handy, but it sorta worked.  Well, it did once I replaced it.  It looked like someone stepped on it and broke it.

Know someone with a 3D Printer (aside from me)?

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1532485

Yep, I saw that one posted just yesterday on facebook. It's pretty neat, though not all that useful if you have a passenger, perhaps !

irish44j
irish44j MegaDork
4/25/19 7:08 p.m.

SOOOOOO. Seriously.

Got the new ignition switch in today, and installed. Piece of cake. Car fired right up, went for a drive, actually felt a bit better than usual. Problem fixed. Then pull up to a stopsign. About to turn right, go to accellerate out and...............car goes dead. As I embarrasingly coast down the hill to the next street thinking about WTF!!!

As usual, after about a minute of sitting, it fired back up and I drove it home. The engine always seems to die after about 10 minutes of driving lightly (i.e. not when burning much fuel) and/or at idle. Is that a clue? Perhaps.

On to the next test. A while back I bought a fuel pressur gauge with fittings for this car. But for some reason kind of forgot about it. How could fuel pressure cause the car to die when it was running fine?

Well....

Did the two tests outlined on most Porsche sites. First, jumped the fuel pump with car off. Readings are within spec (supposed to be 2.5 bar = 36 +/-3psi)

Then did the second test, with the relay back in and the engine running at idle. In this condition it's supposed to be 2 bar (29 +/- 3psi). Hmm

So, that's quite a bit too high, and may explain things. If pressure is high, the regulator isn't releasing excess so pressure continues to build (especially under light driving when it's not getting burned as fast), and it overloads the injectors, which have a failsafe circuit to shut them down in that condition. This could explain why the car still pulls fine when on the gas, but dies primarily at idle. In any case, it's totally clear the pressure is well out of spec and explains why this problem happens when it does.

So, I have a new FPS on the way and fingers crossed this will solve the issue. Also going to double-check all my vac lines, since unplugging the vac from the FPS makes no change whatsoever, which is curious. 

If anything, I've replaced so much stuff chasing this problem, once its fixed I'm gonna be pretty damn confident on this car's reliability lol......

 

artur1808
artur1808 Reader
4/26/19 6:34 a.m.

Nice detective work! Hopefully this is the fix you've been looking for

AWSX1686
AWSX1686 SuperDork
4/26/19 9:28 a.m.

Sounds promising! 

irish44j
irish44j MegaDork
4/26/19 4:35 p.m.

Turns out Bosch is backordered on the FPR I ordered, so the vendor had to cancel the order. Re-ordered a Delphi one elsewhere. That's annoying.

Also going to pick up a HF vacuum test kit tomorrow just to see. 

I'm done saying "this has GOT to be the problem" since that has failed miserably a few times now. Just crossing my fingers lol. 

irish44j
irish44j MegaDork
4/27/19 6:50 p.m.

Spent all day further chasing Porsche stalling. After doing a fuel pressure test again, with a couple vac hoses in the CORRECT positions (I'd had two of them at the wrong side of the TB since I started this build, apparently), now fuel pressure looks fine. Idled the car in the driveway and it stalled multiple times - but with the fuel pres. gauge on I could see it wasn't from fuel starvation, since it was at full pressure. So, that pointed to electrical or big vac leak. I already went over the vac system pretty closely and no evidence of leaks (other than those in the TB, which I sealed), but got out the vac test kit and it showed.....about the vac level it was supposed to. Damn.

Several more stalls, now thinking that I don't need an FPR and that it's time to chase wiring under the dash, decided to try one last thing - unplug the O2 sensor and see if it does anything (good or bad).

The O2 connector is up by the firewall with a bunch of other wires (including the new speed/reference sensor plugs). So, cut a couple zipties holding the bundle together (with the car running), and pull the speed/reference plugs out of the way to get to the O2 connector....and as soon as I did that, car died. So turned it back on and tried it again, and the car dies again. WTF. The connectors looked fully seated, and as you may recall I replaced  both the sensors/pigtails AND the wires to the DME on this system, so all this stuff is new.

Then I unplugged the connectors and plugged them back in, and......everything runs fine now. The only thing I did notice is that I had secured the plugs in a way that the ref. sensor plug *may* have been lightly touching the hood sheetmetal by the engine bay seal. There's a very small mark in the paint there. Hmm. Wonder if this contact actually was causing the plug to get pushed out just enough to make the connection intermittent. IDK. This time I re-secured them to the stock bracket (not sure why I didn't do that before, can't recall the reason...).

Went for a good long 20-minute drive on the same routes, same stoplights, same hills as my usual test course where the stalling had been occuring. No stalls, no stumbles, car pulled strong and smooth, idled smooth etc.

So, after all that...it was  just a loose plug - a plug I had recently replaced no less. So, annoyed I spent a week chasing this, but happy it turned out to be something simple. On the upside, now I know my fuel pressure and vac are good, and I have a new ignition switch and some newly-cleaned grounds - so that may help stop issues in the future. 

Tomorrow is the next rallycross. All packed up for that...did a quick test drive with the tires up there and it was kind of silly how much the car leans with no swaybars on it.............

 

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
4/27/19 6:58 p.m.

The fuel pressure regulator is regulating, but it sounds like you aren't getting vacuum to it.  The reason the pressure is supposed to be "lower" at idle is because the vacuum reference ensures that the fuel pressure is constant relative to manifold pressure.  So 15ish inches of vacuum at idle = .5ish bar = .5 bar lower fuel pressure (relative to atmosphere).

 

But you gotta have vacuum going to the regulator, and it looks like you don't.

irish44j
irish44j MegaDork
4/27/19 7:59 p.m.
Knurled. said:

The fuel pressure regulator is regulating, but it sounds like you aren't getting vacuum to it.  The reason the pressure is supposed to be "lower" at idle is because the vacuum reference ensures that the fuel pressure is constant relative to manifold pressure.  So 15ish inches of vacuum at idle = .5ish bar = .5 bar lower fuel pressure (relative to atmosphere).

 

But you gotta have vacuum going to the regulator, and it looks like you don't.

That issue is fixed. Apparently at some point in time (either by me or by the p/o), the two vac lines off the thottle body were flipped. There is one before the butterfly, and one after it. The one before it is for the evap system, the one after it is for the FPR and FPD. They were switched, so wasn't getting any vac to the fuel stuff at idle. Now they are correctly oriented and the FPR/FPD are both pulling vac within spec. I had the lines color-coded so as not to get them mixed up, but they may have been wrong from the start. IN the end, that wasn't causing the issue (and didn't really seem to be causing any issue at all, frankly). 

I think I had checked them previously, but didn't perhaps notice that for some odd reason Porsche put the vacuum diagram in the engine bay UPSIDE DOWN relative to the actual orientation of the engine. So at a glance, it looked like the vac for FPR/FPD went to the "front" end of the TP. If you're just tracing lines, that's what it looks like. If you step back and look at the whole diagram, you realize it's upside-down. lame.

This is facing it from the front of the car. Obvious when you look at the whole thing, but if you're just tracing a line to the TB and not looking at it all, it's an easy mistake to make I guess....

artur1808
artur1808 Reader
4/29/19 11:58 a.m.
irish44j said:

[...]

did a quick test drive with the tires up there and it was kind of silly how much the car leans with no swaybars on it.............

[...]

You don't run any sway bars at all on the car? Is this just for rallycross or do you run without swaybars for stage rally as well? I vaguely remember seeing some debate on one sway bar or the other, but I thought most e30 rally/rallycross guys were running at least one sway bar

AxeHealey
AxeHealey Reader
4/29/19 2:03 p.m.

In reply to irish44j :

Nice work on the rack!

irish44j
irish44j MegaDork
4/29/19 6:06 p.m.
artur1808 said:
irish44j said:

[...]

did a quick test drive with the tires up there and it was kind of silly how much the car leans with no swaybars on it.............

[...]

You don't run any sway bars at all on the car? Is this just for rallycross or do you run without swaybars for stage rally as well? I vaguely remember seeing some debate on one sway bar or the other, but I thought most e30 rally/rallycross guys were running at least one sway bar

No, no sway bars for anything except tarmac. However, I have much stiffer springs than most e30 rallycross cars (and a lot of e30 stage cars), so that makes up for some of it. I find that suspension tuning on dirt is more consistent using springs rather than bars, and with the lack of side traction in most cases, body lean isn't a significant issue. For rallycross, i think it makes a significant difference in turn-in ability, and perhaps one of the reasons I tend to be better on technical courses than a lot of the locals, IDK. 

I'd guess that half of the e30s that run locally have one or two swaybars, and the other half have none. I still do have the rear bar on the car, but it's just folded up against the chassis and not connected. Sometimes I connect it if I'm having trouble rotating the car due to sticky surface conditions or something, but not often. So many different spring/sway setups to have, and a lot of it is dependent on driving style as well. I find the car is more "tossable" with no sways since I can use the body lean to make the car "dance" so to say, in slaloms and stuff. My springs are stiff enough that it's VERY rare that I lift an inside wheel off the ground (plus, i have the weight of the cage and usually have 1-2 spare tires in the trunk, even for rallycross). 

irish44j
irish44j MegaDork
4/29/19 6:37 p.m.

ut got it mostly sorted out in the afternoon, so was hoping to continue that trend.

instead of towing, I decided to drive the car the 2 hours to the venue in West Virginia. In retrospect, kind of remembered why I tow now....even moreso the car is loud and uncomfortable to be in for any extended time - though a few factors that I'll mention below later contribute to that as well. In any case, loaded up the tires and started driving 2 hours in the rain...I will mention the rack worked great, and no tires went flying off the car. However, tires on an uninsulated roof sure make a lot of wind noise at 70-80mph.....

It didn't stop raining until about half an hour after arrival, which didn't bode well for things. Panthera is VERY hilly and also has some pretty significant drop-offs that could end up causing a roll or other damage if you overshoot the wrong corner too much. 

With that in mind, the course designers made it tighter than usual to slow things down, with a ton of offsets, slaloms, and other features meant to keep everyone safe within rally-x rules. For me, that's music to my ears, since I love the technical courses.

Our run group got lucky and got to run 2nd (though I spent about 2 minutes trying to get unstuck just transiting up to the top where we gridded, since there was deep/wet grass going up a steep hill). Ugh. But by the time we started running, the course had dried enough to actually be pretty tacky and not slippery at all if you stayed "on the line" more or less. 

As usual, MR was the largest class. Due to the weather the event was smaller than usual with only 40 or so people showing up out (we usually get 50-60). MR had 12 entries, down from our usual 15-20, but only one of the regular "fast guys" was missing - Stephen Nichols. In his place Chris's 17-year old son Thomas ran in MR. Thomas had been running in PR since he got his license and actually starting to get close to Shawn, so he's pretty fast. It was interesting seeing him put down times pretty close to the MR leaders (but with a few too many cones). more competition.  As usual, Nick was there in the M3 and Jeremy was there in his e36 (they went 1-2 at the first event and are always fast). Chris, Eric and Neil, and Josh S. rounded out the usual 'fast group' with Dan Gugger still learning the Porsche. Also had a turbo Miata there, but they drive fairly conservatively from what I can tell. 

We did 5 morning runs of about 70 seconds, and as usual, the top half of the class stayed pretty clean and consistent. Nick got off to a slow start, but as usual was called for no cones. I picked up a couple cones as did Jeremy, and Josh, Chris, and Eric all had a bad run here or there. Neil ran at the back of the pack (as the 2nd driver in his car) and quietly was putting down really good times. At lunch break, Neil and Jeremy were pretty much tied, and I was about half a second behind them, with Nick and a couple others just a couple seconds back.

Vid of the morning course;

In the afternoon, I didn't make any real changes other than taking one of the two spare tires out of my trunk to try to help with rotation at the big haripin, which had more traction than I would have liked. I wanted to focus on consistency and on this afternoon I did, running five more runs, all of them clean, and all of them faster than the previous. The car felt good and the PM course had a really good rhythm to it. Meanwhile, Nick was picking up speed (with no cones), Neil was running fast as well, and Jeremy was matching my times on each run. Coming into the last run I had jumped slightly ahead of Neil and Jeremy with Nick just behind them and Josh closing in with some super-fast runs. I went for it on the last run and put down the fastest run in the class all afternoon (clean). Jeremy went for it and got a bit out of sorts, picking up three cones and dropping from 2nd to 4th (that's how close this class is). Neil was ultra-consistent all afternoon but not quite as fast, finishing about 8 seconds behind me in the end, with Nick 4 seconds behind him. Jeremy and Josh were right behind him. Chris took a bit of an excursion and shattered the oil pan on their 325i with two runs left, so he ran his last two in Jeremy's car (and had his best time in it, I think...). I let Thomas do his last run in mine and he seemed impressed by the handling and braking compared to their car and immediately told his dad the things they needed to "upgrade" lol.

I'll also note, for what it's worth (not much) that I was 2nd place overall (out of 40 cars, including things like an STI Type RA). The only car that beat me was Adam Kimmett, who is ultra-fast in his STi (and also an extremely fast stage driver), who is almost always FTD. And I was only about 5 seconds behind him. So, that's kind of neat and it speaks to how good this car is on technical courses.

Also interesting that among the top handful of MR drivers, there were VERY few cone hits - like low single-digits in 10 runs. Meanwhile, we had some experienced/fast Subaru guys (including Kimmett) picking up 20+ cones as they understeered their way through the tight sections. I think one of the usual Mod AWD front-runners had something like 35 cones on his own, which is insane. 

vid of the afternoon course:

So, here's the final standings for class:

A little follow-up. As I may have mentioned, I used my "backup" transmisison when I did this swap. Now I remember why it was a backup, because the idler shaft bearnings are really, really loud. Doesn't seem to be a performance issue, but boy it's annying, especially with hard mounts and no insulation in this car. Driving home both the bearings and a leak at the exhaust/header joint were making things pretty unpleasant in the car, honestly.

So, I pulled out the transmission I had been using with the M42 and did new seals on it today and cleaned it up. So my intention in the next few weeks is to swap it back into the car (and at the same time address the exhaust leak) to try to make it a bit less unpleasant to drive this car - though the convenience of towing will likely make that my regular plan for most summer events where A/C is nice to have on the trip home...

artur1808
artur1808 Reader
4/30/19 6:44 a.m.

In reply to irish44j :

Great write up on the event and congrats on the win! Would you mind sharing what spring rates you run vs. what you consider a more "typical" spring rate for rally/rallyx?

irish44j
irish44j MegaDork
4/30/19 7:52 a.m.
artur1808 said:

In reply to irish44j :

Great write up on the event and congrats on the win! Would you mind sharing what spring rates you run vs. what you consider a more "typical" spring rate for rally/rallyx?

 

My fronts are 10", 225#  (stock e30 fronts are something like 120-130# as far as I recall

My rears are e36 M3, which from what I can find have a max rate of 330# (for an effective rate of something like 200# due to their positioning), which is about 20% higher than stock e30 rears (and also about an inch taller). 

AWSX1686
AWSX1686 SuperDork
4/30/19 8:32 a.m.

Awesome! I need to come down to an event at some point just to watch. My friend Austin has offered to let me ride along as well. I believe he is currently leading Modified AWD in the Mid-Atlantic Hawkeye STI. 

irish44j
irish44j MegaDork
4/30/19 3:45 p.m.
AWSX1686 said:

Awesome! I need to come down to an event at some point just to watch. My friend Austin has offered to let me ride along as well. I believe he is currently leading Modified AWD in the Mid-Atlantic Hawkeye STI. 

I think he runs in PA, and of the various people running with that Mid-Atlantic crew he's definitely the fastest. PA has a couple of other pretty good drivers, and he's been winning it by a healthy margin.

 

AWSX1686
AWSX1686 SuperDork
5/1/19 7:42 a.m.
irish44j said:
AWSX1686 said:

Awesome! I need to come down to an event at some point just to watch. My friend Austin has offered to let me ride along as well. I believe he is currently leading Modified AWD in the Mid-Atlantic Hawkeye STI. 

I think he runs in PA, and of the various people running with that Mid-Atlantic crew he's definitely the fastest. PA has a couple of other pretty good drivers, and he's been winning it by a healthy margin.

 

Ahh, could be PA. I know last event the Prepared car was down and he had to use the stock classed STI Type RA and still got first. He's nuts!

irish44j
irish44j MegaDork
5/1/19 8:33 a.m.

In reply to AWSX1686 :


Ironically., that RA with its primary driver, actually lost by a wide margin in stock class to a 1998 Impreza RS at that same event. So Austin did comparaitively well in PA and from the outside definitely looked like he was fast. To be fair, most of the PA cars here are pretty much stock as well, except with gravel tires, so an RA wasn't exactly at any big disadvantage. The 2nd fastest guy in that class is in a mostly-stock Saab 9-2X. That said, most of the RWD crew doesn't even pay attention to AWD standings lol.....we're in our own little world. 

It's hard to really compare across classes, of course. Heck, I beat all of the AWD cars at the last event except Kimmett (who won M4). The Subies don't like technical stuff lol....something about understeer this or that :D Give them an open course and I wouldn't have been nearly that high overall. 

AWSX1686
AWSX1686 SuperDork
5/1/19 8:46 a.m.

In reply to irish44j :

Gotcha. I forgot it goes Stock, Prepared, then Modified. Either way, it sounds like playing in the dirt is fun and I need to come out to an event sometime. 

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