KevinGale
KevinGale HalfDork
6/23/18 4:46 p.m.

The picture in the previous post is one reason I will probably be buying the Canton pan.   One problem with having the scavenge lines exit on the right side is starter clearance.  If the lines are too far back they won't clear the starter.  Some setups use a mini starter or a different bell housing which allows a reversed mount and reversed rotation starter but I don't have either of these things.   I was looking at another dry sump pan before I settled on the Canton but that manufacturer didn't give dimensions.  I wanted to measure my starter so I could be sure the lines would fit.  I also wanted to know exactly how deep the pan is since I care about 1/4" one way or another. 

You would think companies selling race parts would know that nothing is completely standard on a race car and yes we often need dimensions before we can order but this company didn't think of that.   Their pan looked OK and it was $70 cheaper. They will lose a sale because their competitor posted dimensions and they will never even know why.  

frenchyd
frenchyd SuperDork
6/24/18 11:18 a.m.

In reply to KevinGale : I really focus on weight. Knowing how much weight you save with those mini starters and how fast they spin the engine over I’d look very seriously at getting one.  

Since there are so many Chevy starters out there you can buy them used and still get  reliability from them.  One nice thing is I ran a dead loss battery and at the end of a busy weekend I’d leave the ignition off and drive it on the trailer on just the starter.   

I bought one for my Jaguar and it lasted 35 years.  Heck it still works!  So that’s more than 40 years now.  

 

KevinGale
KevinGale HalfDork
6/24/18 12:42 p.m.

Technically I think I am already using a "Mini" starter but some are more mini than others.   Because the motor sits so low modifieds don't run the standard 168 tooth flywheel. It would be the lowest thing on the car which isn't a good plan. Instead the car has a 105 tooth flywheel.  That in turn needs a starter designed for that which limits the selection a bit.

The starter I am running is a Quarter Master Ultra Duty.   And yes it can load the car on the trailer using the starter.  And it had no trouble starting the car in gear at the last event when the clutch master cylinder died. :-)

KevinGale
KevinGale HalfDork
6/30/18 12:02 p.m.

The HVAC guy came yesterday just in time to get the heat pump cooling working as the 90 degree temps arrived.  (There apparently was a leak.)

I used the nice cool garage to install the new master cylinder which should fix my clutch issue.  This was pretty much a drop in replacement so it wasn't a difficult install.  I still need to drive the car around the yard just to make sure the clutch is disengaging properly but that can wait for a cooler day. 

I thought it was kind of interesting that Wilwood spent so much time and money on the box. Most race stuff seems to come in a plain box. This was designed to be displayed in a store. 

759NRNG
759NRNG SuperDork
6/30/18 7:56 p.m.

Is the box presentation reflected in the purchase price?

KevinGale
KevinGale HalfDork
7/1/18 11:17 a.m.

In reply to 759NRNG :

It was $65 so not really.   The non name brand, non rebuildable Speedway Motors version of the same part is $50.   The extra $15 for a brand name rebuildable part is justified.  

KevinGale
KevinGale HalfDork
7/4/18 7:26 p.m.

Got a surprise weight savings today.    This is going into the car in place of the current battery.  Should be 22+ lbs lighter by my measurements.

https://www.braillebattery.com/index.php/braille/product_batteries/b2015

Ignore the battery not included. I wanted the picture that showed the holder which I also ordered.   Between the Braille battery and the holder it is a bunch of weight.

My sister in-law (Karen she is the one who used to co-drive the old modified with me) had a change in plans.  Her car had a head gasket problem last fall.  She parked the car and had been driving a long term loaner from a friend.  The car she parked had a brand new battery that was the same size as the one in the race car.  Since she was planning on just trading in the car there was no sense in leaving the new battery in it. So I swapped it with the old one in the race car.   But Karen decided a new truck is just too large a payment so now that her friend needs the loaner back Karen decided to get the head gasket fixed.  That was when she found out the race car battery that was in her car no longer takes a charge after sitting dead all winter.  So she needed a battery.  I offered to give her the one in the race car back which gave me a perfect excuse to buy a lightweight battery for the race car.  

At first I was going to use the existing steel battery holder that is welded to the frame but this battery is so much smaller it just doesn't fit well.  So I'll cut that off and weld on some tabs to mount this new aluminum holder.  The battery is 22 lbs lighter that the old battery and the holder is lighter than the steel one I am cutting off.  Probably another pound or two there. So a bunch of weight.

The only bad part is this will remove weight from the right side of the car which is already lighter than the left side.  But lighter is faster. 

The main downside is less reserve capacity but it's a race car so I'm not much worried about that. When the car isn't running the only significant draws I have on the battery is the radiator fan if I'm trying to cool the car down a bit and my helmet blower fan.   I never run the high draw radiator fan for more than a few minutes and the helmet blower just doesn't draw that much. 

frenchyd
frenchyd SuperDork
7/5/18 5:57 a.m.

In reply to KevinGale :Are you running a dead loss system with no on board charger? On my car ( with a dead loss system) I wired in a quick slide connector so the big marine battery I used for starting purposes could quickly plug in. I had it slide sideways in case I was in a rush I could drive off without taking the time to disconnect. I’m guessing the connection and wiring maybe added a pound but going off with a fully charged battery was worth it.  

If it hadn’t been a vintage race car those little Japanese alternators would have been my choice. Less than 1/2 the weight of an American alternator.  

 

KevinGale
KevinGale HalfDork
7/5/18 10:11 a.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

I have alternator so I do have on board charging.  I also have remote battery terminals which make charging easy.  Typically the alternator handles it and I only need to charge in the off season.

I've run with just a battery and saved the weight and parasitic drag from the alternator but to me it isn't worth it.  Too often sometime during the weekend event the battery would end up flat. And at hillclimbs that can happen in very inconvenient locations.  I've missed multiple runs because my car wouldn't start at the top of the hill because the battery was too low. 

There were also two "fun" times when the battery died at the start line and they tried to jump my car by rolling me backwards down the hill.  I can't see backwards in the car and trying to jump the car in reverse while not going off the course was an experience I would rather not repeat.

And yes I have one of those little Japanese alternators. :-)    One of the few metric fasteners on the whole car.

KevinGale
KevinGale HalfDork
7/7/18 2:58 p.m.

The new battery came today.  It looks like a toy it is so small.

 

This is why I can't use the old battery box/holder It just floats in it.

KevinGale
KevinGale HalfDork
7/7/18 3:02 p.m.

I dropped the new battery into the old battery holder so I could connect the terminals and try starting the car. 

First thing I noticed is how much easier it is to get the battery in.  One hand and just put it in place.  With the old 37 lb battery it was two hands and a pain in the back since I always have to lean over at about a 90 degree angle to get the battery in the car. 

The battery has more than enough amps.  I hit the starter and the engine spins like a top. If anything it seems to spin faster than with the old battery.  So almost 25 lbs between the battery and the lighter box/holder and the car starts better. Pretty good deal I should have done this years ago.

Now to break out the sawzall and grinder to cut off the old battery box.

KevinGale
KevinGale HalfDork
7/7/18 9:39 p.m.

I got the old battery box off the car.   All I can say is when I weld something onto the car I intend it to stay on the car.   Way too many welds to cut and grind off.  :-)

I needed some steel pieces to weld to the car so I could then bolt the new aluminum box to that. That was when I realized my container of scrap steel pieces is still at Karen's house.  One thing that never got moved.  Luckily I did find some stuff to use. It's a little thicker than would be ideal but I made two straps and drilled them out for the mounting holes for the new box.  Then I welded nuts to the back which will make installing and removing the battery so much easier.  Ran out of time but with any luck tomorrow I will be finished with the new battery.

Then I need to drain all the oil out of the car so I can replace a fitting on the dry sump that is leaking. The new fitting came with the order that had the battery.

After that I have to swap gears in the quick change.   I'm trying something new for Burke. Normally I run the 5.04 gears that I also run at Ascutney and Philo but there are a couple places on the hill (like going into check 4) where I run out of 3rd at an awkward time.  I either have to run against the rev limiter for a few seconds or shift early to 4th then back down to 3rd coming out of the corner.   I'm all about avoiding these kind of shifts so I was playing around with my gear chart trying to figure out what rear end gears might fix the problem without messing things up elsewhere.  Then I noticed if I flip the 5.04 it turns into a 4.69.   The 4.69 will give me about 6 mph more in 3rd which I hope will be just enough to avoid the shift.  It doesn't look to me like the change will have a negative effect elsewhere so I'm going to try this for Burke.

5.04 vs 4.69

 

I've also been thinking about running lower gears at Okemo.  The last in car video I did at Okemo I was able to watch the tach on the whole hill.   The RPM's are a bit on the low side and I realized that if I am willing to do a couple more shifts I can pick up the average RPM to be more in my power band.  Right now I shift three times on the hill from launch to finish.  With the lower 4.25 (vs the 3.94 I run now) I will have to shift up to 4th after check two and then down to third again. But for those two shifts I will raise the average RPM by about 8% which I think is worth it.   The bad news is I will have to buy another $225 set of  B&J gears since they have spoiled me and I won't go back to the cheap quick change gears.

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/BandJ-Quick-Change-Gear-Sets,3501.html?sku=91714-7K

 

KevinGale
KevinGale HalfDork
7/8/18 3:05 p.m.

Battery is in.   I'm really looking forward to having a lift in the future and not having to weld on my back.

Ovid_and_Flem
Ovid_and_Flem SuperDork
7/12/18 3:39 p.m.

ttt

KevinGale
KevinGale HalfDork
7/12/18 7:14 p.m.
Ovid_and_Flem said:

ttt

???

TRoglodyte
TRoglodyte UltraDork
7/12/18 8:04 p.m.
KevinGale said:
Ovid_and_Flem said:

ttt

???  Another member was looking for a hillclimber in new England, you are him, just trying to bring you front page. Kevin, had you heard Maynard Troyer passed?

 

KevinGale
KevinGale HalfDork
7/13/18 10:00 a.m.
TRoglodyte said:
KevinGale said:
Ovid_and_Flem said:

ttt

???  Another member was looking for a hillclimber in new England, you are him, just trying to bring you front page. Kevin, had you heard Maynard Troyer passed?

 

Ahhh just a bump.   

Yes, I had heard the father of Troyer passed.  It was a sad day!

Ovid_and_Flem
Ovid_and_Flem SuperDork
7/13/18 12:41 p.m.

In reply to KevinGale :

ttt=to the top

Was just trying to help a newb nterested in finding your threadyes

KevinGale
KevinGale HalfDork
7/14/18 9:59 a.m.
Ovid_and_Flem said:

In reply to KevinGale :

ttt=to the top

Was just trying to help a newb nterested in finding your threadyes

I like newbs!. Compared to many people I still feel like a newb in so many areas of hillclimb racing (take my welding for example). 

The New England Hillclimb Association (NEHA) loves newbs. Everything in grassroots racing is based on a continual influx of new people.  Any organization that is hostile to new people or just places too many barriers for them will likely not survive in the long run.

 

RyanGreener
RyanGreener New Reader
7/20/18 8:57 a.m.
KevinGale said:
Ovid_and_Flem said:

In reply to KevinGale :

ttt=to the top

Was just trying to help a newb nterested in finding your threadyes

I like newbs!. Compared to many people I still feel like a newb in so many areas of hillclimb racing (take my welding for example). 

The New England Hillclimb Association (NEHA) loves newbs. Everything in grassroots racing is based on a continual influx of new people.  Any organization that is hostile to new people or just places too many barriers for them will likely not survive in the long run.

 

I believe he might have been referring to me. I'm digging this thread. I'm in the Northeast area (NJ) and I'm looking at options to have a car that is classed for both NEHA and PA Hill Climb but it doesn't seem that easy.

KevinGale
KevinGale HalfDork
7/20/18 9:31 a.m.
RyanGreener said:

I believe he might have been referring to me. I'm digging this thread. I'm in the Northeast area (NJ) and I'm looking at options to have a car that is classed for both NEHA and PA Hill Climb but it doesn't seem that easy.

 

We have more than a few people who run in both series.  So it is certainly doable.   There is a New England Hillclimb Association facebook group that will have lots of people who can help.   As far as I know our cage specs are compatible with what the PA series requires.

 

RyanGreener
RyanGreener New Reader
7/20/18 11:25 a.m.
KevinGale said:
RyanGreener said:

I believe he might have been referring to me. I'm digging this thread. I'm in the Northeast area (NJ) and I'm looking at options to have a car that is classed for both NEHA and PA Hill Climb but it doesn't seem that easy.

 

We have more than a few people who run in both series.  So it is certainly doable.   There is a New England Hillclimb Association facebook group that will have lots of people who can help.   As far as I know our cage specs are compatible with what the PA series requires.

 

Not really worried about the cage aspect, but I'm trying to figure out a car that would be competitive in both organizations at a grassroots budget. I'll find the FB Group and see what's up, thanks for the referral!

KevinGale
KevinGale HalfDork
7/20/18 11:58 a.m.

In reply to RyanGreener :

There is also the hillclimb.org website which has rules and in that class information.    

Competitive in multiple series can hard since tweaking a car to be perfect for one class likely means it is not for another class. I've head plenty of racers complain about how to be competitive in one series they need to do something that in another series causes them to get bumped to a higher class where they are not competitive.  

KevinGale
KevinGale HalfDork
7/20/18 12:10 p.m.

Luke Moultroup has a car with a class competitive problem that still exists from many years ago.  Smokey who originally owned the car built an engine around being competitive for a Pike's Peak class.  At the time it seemed to make sense since it put him in a lower class not running against the open/unlimited class.  But for some reason he missed something about the class rules so when Smokey got to Pike's Peak they made him run in the unlimited class anyway. 

Now many years later Luke really wishes Smokey had just built a larger more normal displacement small block.  He is in the P1 class that would allow up to 500 cubic inches but he has a smaller than normal small block at 318 cubic inches. 

Luke still manages to win his class all the time so everyone else is probably happy he has the smaller engine.  :-)

 

Jerry From LA
Jerry From LA SuperDork
7/20/18 12:34 p.m.
KevinGale said:

Luke still manages to win his class all the time so everyone else is probably happy he has the smaller engine.  :-)

 

Then again, a big block Chrysler could upset the balance so maybe the smaller motor ain't such a bad idea.

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