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engiekev
engiekev Reader
11/6/19 6:13 a.m.

Another part worth replacing that is good piece of mind: spark plug wires and plugs. 

Stick with the blue ngk wires, they're not too pricey and work the best with the stock ignition at lower power levels.  A lot of the cheaper replacement wires can cause issues.

Plugs there are lots of options, but again stick to ngk plugs. Copper plugs are fine unless you have the extra $ for iridium.  Stick to the stock heat range, BPR6ES is the copper part number, gap to 0.028". 

crankwalk
crankwalk SuperDork
11/6/19 2:07 p.m.
engiekev said:

 

Plugs there are lots of options, but again stick to ngk plugs. Copper plugs are fine unless you have the extra $ for iridium.  Stick to the stock heat range, BPR6ES is the copper part number, gap to 0.028". 

I always used bpr7es with .028 gap with the boost turned up. My 4g63 cars hated anything other than the cheapest copper NGK's. I would blow out spark under boost on iridiums and I tried that at least twice on different cars.  

Ashyukun (Robert)
Ashyukun (Robert) UberDork
11/6/19 3:22 p.m.

In reply to untchabl :

EXTREMELY jealous... I've been looking for a cheap one of those near me for a while, both for a potential Challenge entry and for driving to and from our cabin (should cost like half what it costs to drive my SUV there and back).

AnthonyGS
AnthonyGS Dork
11/7/19 4:55 p.m.

Okay guys....  wish me luck.  I may have found a similar car at challenge budget too.  I can't drive to get it this weekend since it's my daughters birthday, but you can bet if still there I will be picking it up on Nov 15th or 16th.  I will have the truck and trailer ready to roll the evening of the 14th.

untchabl
untchabl Reader
11/7/19 9:11 p.m.
AnthonyGS said:

Okay guys....  wish me luck.  I may have found a similar car at challenge budget too.  I can't drive to get it this weekend since it's my daughters birthday, but you can bet if still there I will be picking it up on Nov 15th or 16th.  I will have the truck and trailer ready to roll the evening of the 14th.

Good luck, hopefully it works out that you can pick it up.


Bore scope showed up from Amazon today, if I have time I'll try to inspect my dead cylinder tomorrow.

surfshibby07
surfshibby07 Reader
11/7/19 9:34 p.m.

What a find. This will be awesome to follow. 

Mndsm
Mndsm MegaDork
11/8/19 5:39 a.m.
crankwalk said:
engiekev said:

 

Plugs there are lots of options, but again stick to ngk plugs. Copper plugs are fine unless you have the extra $ for iridium.  Stick to the stock heat range, BPR6ES is the copper part number, gap to 0.028". 

I always used bpr7es with .028 gap with the boost turned up. My 4g63 cars hated anything other than the cheapest copper NGK's. I would blow out spark under boost on iridiums and I tried that at least twice on different cars.  

Funny- I glanced and saw the words "spark plug' and immediately went bpr7es for mo boost. I guess it never really goes away.  

bentwrench
bentwrench SuperDork
11/8/19 10:01 a.m.

Will a 2.4L bolt up or are they different?

crankwalk
crankwalk SuperDork
11/8/19 12:30 p.m.
bentwrench said:

Will a 2.4L bolt up or are they different?

You really don;t want to unless you stroked a 2.0 to 2.4 but even then I don't see the point. Higher revving 2.0s went in the 7s 15 years ago.

bentwrench
bentwrench SuperDork
11/8/19 12:45 p.m.

Yes a 2.4l is a taller block and will rev just fine.

Perhaps my question needs work. Does the DSM motor share the bell housing and rotation?

crankwalk
crankwalk SuperDork
11/8/19 1:33 p.m.
bentwrench said:

Yes a 2.4l is a taller block and will rev just fine.

Perhaps my question needs work. Does the DSM motor share the bell housing and rotation?

Yes it will but you need a 2g head for the same size head bolts (smaller than what he already has) to work. All for a little more torque and yes it does come with less high rpm reliability. People did that in the days before ball bearing turbos were as available to get quicker spool but displacement trade isn't worth it. He already has a 6 bolt 2.0 and it's the most desirable engine to modify in these things. "Upgrading" to more displacement but a 7 bolt crank can end in my user name with a real pressure plate needed for fast AWD cars.

 

yupididit
yupididit UberDork
11/8/19 3:32 p.m.
crankwalk said:
bentwrench said:

Yes a 2.4l is a taller block and will rev just fine.

Perhaps my question needs work. Does the DSM motor share the bell housing and rotation?

Yes it will but you need a 2g head for the same size head bolts (smaller than what he already has) to work. All for a little more torque and yes it does come with less high rpm reliability. People did that in the days before ball bearing turbos were as available to get quicker spool but displacement trade isn't worth it. He already has a 6 bolt 2.0 and it's the most desirable engine to modify in these things. "Upgrading" to more displacement but a 7 bolt crank can end in my user name with a real pressure plate needed for fast AWD cars.

 

When I used a 2.4 it was the 4gcs block. It's a 2.4 6bolt block from Hyundai Sonatas and has the same deck height as the 2.4 4g64. I used a 92mm or 94mm crank to destroke it. I believe my rods were 159mm or 162mm long. I wish I could find all my notes and orders when I purchased the parts and the emails from JAM. They were all on my Yahoo mail account that I can't access. Also, they have no way to recover your account if you can't access your secondary account, bastards. 

It was a cool build and very different but expensive because I needed custom pistons, rods, and crank. I think you're right though. A stock 2.0 4g63 is plenty enough especially with current turbo technology. It can do and handle everything most would need out of a turbo 4cyl looking for power. 

Anyway, that was in my Galant VR4. The car got flooded in a hurricane while I was in Afghanistan crying 

untchabl
untchabl Reader
11/8/19 4:16 p.m.

Amazon bore scope came in, tomorrow I'll check out the engine and hopefully can tell what the issues are.

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
11/8/19 4:24 p.m.

I'm going to need a link and a review on that piece of equipment please. It looks incredibly useful.

untchabl
untchabl Reader
11/8/19 4:30 p.m.
Dusterbd13-michael said:

I'm going to need a link and a review on that piece of equipment please. It looks incredibly useful.

Will absolutely review it after trying it out tomorrow. If it's good, I'll post link and details and if it's crap, I'll return it. It was around $65 and seems to be ok in the couple minutes I messed with it.

crankwalk
crankwalk SuperDork
11/8/19 6:09 p.m.
yupididit said:
crankwalk said:
bentwrench said:

Yes a 2.4l is a taller block and will rev just fine.

Perhaps my question needs work. Does the DSM motor share the bell housing and rotation?

Yes it will but you need a 2g head for the same size head bolts (smaller than what he already has) to work. All for a little more torque and yes it does come with less high rpm reliability. People did that in the days before ball bearing turbos were as available to get quicker spool but displacement trade isn't worth it. He already has a 6 bolt 2.0 and it's the most desirable engine to modify in these things. "Upgrading" to more displacement but a 7 bolt crank can end in my user name with a real pressure plate needed for fast AWD cars.

 

When I used a 2.4 it was the 4gcs block. It's a 2.4 6bolt block from Hyundai Sonatas and has the same deck height as the 2.4 4g64. I used a 92mm or 94mm crank to destroke it. I believe my rods were 159mm or 162mm long. I wish I could find all my notes and orders when I purchased the parts and the emails from JAM. They were all on my Yahoo mail account that I can't access. Also, they have no way to recover your account if you can't access your secondary account, bastards. 

It was a cool build and very different but expensive because I needed custom pistons, rods, and crank. I think you're right though. A stock 2.0 4g63 is plenty enough especially with current turbo technology. It can do and handle everything most would need out of a turbo 4cyl looking for power. 

Anyway, that was in my Galant VR4. The car got flooded in a hurricane while I was in Afghanistan crying 


 

I also used the Hyundai block in my GVR4. Didn't care for the 2.4 so went back to a 2.0 but kept the Hyundai valve cover.

That 2.0 made 460 all wheel hp with a BB Precision 50 trim. Funny enough, I thought the car was most fun on the street with a big 16g. That's why for a stock platform I always encourage people not to overdo it from the beginning. These cars can be a riot with $1000 in parts.

 

Also, I just realized since this is a '90 you should have a oil cooler mounted up in the front bumper instead of the sandwich coolers that can fail in the oil filter housing. Double check that next time you look up front since I think they were available '90 only.They are nice to have.

yupididit
yupididit UberDork
11/8/19 6:30 p.m.

In reply to crankwalk :

I agree the 16g size turbos are the most fun. Great spool and recovery. You're making me miss these cars. A galant vr4 with an hta68 and some mods sounds like a whole lot of fun right now. 

AnthonyGS
AnthonyGS Dork
11/8/19 8:06 p.m.

You guys are really making me hope my deal comes through.  I remember seeing so many of these run easy 12s back in the 90s in the Seattle area.....   it looked like so much fun.

former520
former520 HalfDork
11/8/19 10:46 p.m.

If the bores are still good and you do not need to oversize, going to the higher compression pistons from a 2G made a considerable difference on the low end in mu old DSM.  

 

I also concur with the copper NGKs and 16G turbo.  Very fun and drivable.  All of the larger turbo'ed DSMs I was ever in were brutal trying to street drive.  Monsters on the 1/4, but laggy for track driving.

untchabl
untchabl Reader
11/10/19 2:00 p.m.

Got some time to tinker on the DSM today. Tried out my new bore scope and didn't see anything wrong with the piston or cylinder walls on the dead cylinder. 

The little mirror attachment that's included with the camera is crap, so couldn't look at the valves.

After that I poured a little ATF in the dead cylinder and checked the compression again. It went from 10psi to 150psi with the ATF so I'm thinking either the rings are stuck or just worn out. The cylinder that was at 80psi jumped up to 200psi with the ATF.

engiekev
engiekev Reader
11/11/19 9:00 a.m.

Awesome! Sounds like you have a good long block.  

The only other part in the long block that may need to be replaced are the valve seals.  You won't really know that until running it or doing a leak down test that might show it. There is a valve spring compressor available that bolts to the head and allows you to remove the springs with the head still in the car 

The stock lifters also make a lot of noise, many upgrade to the larger oil bore "revised " lifters. Not really a required upgrade, they're just quieter.

The valve cover gasket may leak as well, they're cheap and easy to replace. Just be absolutely sure to use a torque wrench and do not over tighten the bolts or in a odd pattern, the valve cover will crack!

It's likely a good idea to still do a full timing belt job before running, as you don't really know the age of the old belt.  The vfaq is very well written, and once you do one DSM belt job it's a piece of cake.  There really is plenty of room if you jack the engine up slightly after removing the engine mount.

A lot of people remove the balance shafts at the same time, but it's really not a major improvement in reliability (unless you skip replacing the BS belts).  On a race engine that sees much higher RPM it makes more sense.

Removing them introduces a lot now vibration and harmonics which could cause other issues, like fasteners loosening in the timing area and sending units backing out on the oil filter housing.

untchabl
untchabl Reader
11/11/19 2:01 p.m.

Is there a difference between the AWD and the FWD gas tanks? My tank looks pretty rough inside so I wanted to make sure I get the right tank if I find a used one.

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
11/11/19 2:05 p.m.

I have the overhead cam valve spring compressor if you need to borrow one 

AnthonyGS
AnthonyGS Dork
11/11/19 2:29 p.m.

I've learned a lot in this thread already.  In 5 days, I should acquire this and begin my own journey.  I'm sure I will have questions too.

 

untchabl
untchabl Reader
11/11/19 2:31 p.m.

In reply to AnthonyGS :

What's the details on yours? Looks to be alot nicer than mine.

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