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sleepyhead the buffalo
sleepyhead the buffalo Mod Squad
11/29/21 7:06 a.m.

Good luck this weekend!

bob-"too many dang korean cars"-zilla
bob-"too many dang korean cars"-zilla MegaDork
11/29/21 12:12 p.m.

I wish I could have made this work. Good luck down there!

kevinatfms
kevinatfms HalfDork
12/2/21 7:48 a.m.

Thanks everyone. One more day and we are heading down. Been 3 years in the making and well worth it. 

I have 4 other drivers and 1 crew member that i wholely trust and appreciate with all their help these past few months. Seems like once they were on board things got easier. 

I will document everything i can this weekend and post up. 

MaxC
MaxC Reader
12/2/21 4:11 p.m.
kevinatfms said:

 I am super excited and very nervous for our first outing but im sure it will all go away once the green gets waived. 

 

I know exactly how you feel, and you're right, your nerves will settle as soon as you see the car come around the track for the first time. Been following your build off and on here, and it looks like you've covered all your bases and prepped the car well.  My guess is you'll do better than you think you will.  

kevinatfms
kevinatfms HalfDork
12/6/21 3:08 p.m.

What a weekend. Decompressing after a long drive home last night and unpacking today. 

Results? The full 15 hours completed, 880+ track miles, 2nd place class finish both days, 21/52 overall first day and either 21 or 17 of 52 on the second day(Race Hero and MyLaps have different positions for some reason).

Car did excellent EXCEPT for the stupid coilovers(tire wear galore) and a broken brake pedal switch(black flagged). Two on track incidents caused some massive wheel/tire damage but things were mended under the car pretty easily.

Ill have some video, pictures and the data compiled shortly to post. Overall super impressed at the car and our finish. We werent fast and got passed ALOT but slow and steady meant we actually finished. Alot of people left after the first day due to breakdowns and the second day saw quite a few more.


Car after 880+ miles on track. 
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Pit for driver change only.
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Day 2 sunrise with 10 minutes to race time. 
May be an image of 3 people, car and road
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Me getting ready for my first stint on day one.
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Some lap times from day one on the race hero app. We werent fast but very consistent.
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Interior of the car night before the race. We got a free loaner of Flagtronics from Champ Car which was extremely nice. Time to invest as they are now required starting 2022. $150 isnt too bad and it is a REALLY nice system they have in place. May be an image of 1 person


Our garage space for the weekend. 
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kevinatfms
kevinatfms HalfDork
12/6/21 3:25 p.m.

After the race we were all talking and getting advice from some of the racers.....our plan going forward is:

1. Remove coilovers and install cut H&R springs onto some performance type damper. This will give us more points to work with.
25 points per corner for adjustable dampers
5 points per corner for coilover springs(conventional lowering springs are free)
10 points per corner for adjustable spring perch

160 points which we could use for other things that would benefit the car better. 

Our plan, KYB AGX up front(50 points) with H&R springs cut to lower it further. KYB GR-2 out back with cut springs to even it out.

2. Install ported throttle body, ported intake manifold. Zero points added and some power to be made.
3. Cut more weight out of the car.
4. 2.25" exhaust with one muffler. We were easily the quietest car there and i think we could get a little bit more power without the secondary catalyst and resonator.
5. Tiburon transmission and LSD(25 points). Should be worth it knowing how badly we spin the inside tire on every corner.
6. Going back to the stock shifter. The short throw wasnt anything to write home about and caused a ton of 4th gear grind. Found a stock shifter in a junkyard last week and got it shipped to my house for $35.
7. LED lighting upgrade.
8. Flagtronics is a must.
9. Bigger window net. We got teched and that was one of two things that MUST be upgraded next event. 
10. Recertify the fire bottle. It is due to get recertified next year. 
11. Driver cooling system. Even at 72 degrees out it was quite hot in the car. I cannot imagine 90 degree weather in August.
12. Resecure the front cooling ducts. The passenger side duct was either rubbing the tire or the harmonic balancer. Need to find a better solution at that area(Z06 duct was recommended by a racer).
13. Replace our fast fix brake pedal switch with a new one. Sucks that it got us black flagged. $5 part and more than 19 minutes to fix it.


The biggest thing is the coilovers. They hurt us more than helped us. We had to get the car aligned after day 1 due to the bolts slipping multiple times and the off track excursion. Wont happen again with the new setup and a fixed camber point.

With all the changes above, the Elantra will go from 497.5 VPI to a 392.5 VPI which means we have wiggle room for other things.

kevinatfms
kevinatfms HalfDork
12/6/21 7:37 p.m.

Brakes did FANTASTIC. Porterfield R4-E pads were easy to modulate and took all the abuse we could throw at it. Never a hiccup from the braking system.

The pads tolerated the heat very well and didn't score the rotors up at all. I am very impressed with the Porterfield pads.

video link to part of my stint from day 1

https://youtu.be/kostZHc5w0w

 

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr PowerDork
12/6/21 9:40 p.m.

The Trans swap is 25 points.  If it comes from a different car and wasn't offered in your model EXACTLY, it's 25pts.  If it came with an lsd in it, you get the lsd for free.

 

The kyb adjustable are garbage.  Just get a set of bilsteins and call it a day.

 

Also, if you run adjustable spring perches, you get the springs for free.  Of any type.

kevinatfms
kevinatfms HalfDork
12/7/21 5:53 a.m.
wvumtnbkr said:

The Trans swap is 25 points.  If it comes from a different car and wasn't offered in your model EXACTLY, it's 25pts.  If it came with an lsd in it, you get the lsd for free but I see what you're saying. Would need to be case and gearing to be per the rules. I guess the Elantra box it is.

Do foreign models count? There was a KDM Elantra diesel with a higher ratio that I could use.

 

The kyb adjustable are garbage.  Just get a set of bilsteins and call it a day.

 

Also, if you run adjustable spring perches, you get the springs for free.  Of any type.

So I could run the Elantra box with an LSD and still be 50 points. The Tiburon box is the same case with different final drive.

They don't make Bilstein for the Elantra or Tiburon. KYB AGX is really the only damper. They don't even make them for the rear which is why I need to go with GR-2's. Any suggestions?

The tech sheet doesn't say the springs are free? It has a point value listed for each. Did I miss something?

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr PowerDork
12/7/21 9:24 a.m.

The lsd is only 25 pts.   The rules state that the adjustable perches come with springs.

 

Bilstein makes inserts.  You need to take some measurements and figure out which ones can fit inside your current struts.

 

Read the fixed value list in the rules and it shows you each point value.

kevinatfms
kevinatfms HalfDork
12/7/21 11:08 a.m.
wvumtnbkr said:

The lsd is only 25 pts.   The rules state that the adjustable perches come with springs.

 

Bilstein makes inserts.  You need to take some measurements and figure out which ones can fit inside your current struts.

 

Read the fixed value list in the rules and it shows you each point value.

I see that the gear ratio is also included in that. So trans gearing swap to Tiburon final drive plus LSD is only 25 points if i am reading the VPI rules correctly. If so, that is a no-brainer.

I will look up the Bilstein inserts. Thanks!

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr PowerDork
12/7/21 1:11 p.m.

Gear ratio is included if it came in that platform.  I'm not sure you will convince tech that it's the same platform.

 

However, this only matters if you make impound....

kevinatfms
kevinatfms HalfDork
12/10/21 7:26 a.m.

So Bilsteins are a mint to get($300+ PER SHOCK from Germany and for a Tiburon). Not going that direction. Will deal with fresh KYB's for now, cut H&R springs and new bump stops and boots.

I will redrill the shock towers inward for some camber up front. In the rear we are SOL unless we run camber bolts(20 points). So i dont know if the tires will last with its current camber reading of -0.5 out back. We will try a trackcross event to see how they wear under less stressful conditions before going full beans at a race. If it needs camber we will add bolts.

New window net is coming - 18x24 net to cover more of the window that tech inspector said was necessary. 

Ordered the required Flagtronics unit as it is now required in Champ Car. I really liked the system though, very intuitive and easy to understand. Will tie into the cigarette lighter using a dual USB plug which can feed both the flagtronics unit plus a Garmin or Iphone w/ Track Addict for lap times and coaching.

Ordered new rear sway bar end links after our little off track excursion led to the end links digging into the wheels. Photo of carnage below...



Also ordered a new brake switch. We broke ours off in the first stint on Sunday morning. It has two capture nuts which seemed to crack the threaded portion of the brake switch. When i went to investigate during the race i found that tightening it up just sheared it off. We rigged it up to work for the race but i certainly want to replace the switch with a new one and get it installed correctly.

Another thing that bothered me was the lack of interior door handle on the driver side. We kept fiddling with the exterior handle or interior pull tab which often wound up slowing us down on driver changes. So i procured a drivers handle which will get fastened to the door somewhere to make opening it from inside much easier than yanking on the tab.

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr PowerDork
12/10/21 8:59 a.m.

Isn't there something you can cut / weld /bend in the rear to get more camber?

 

The bilstein inserts wouldn't necessarily be for a hyundai.  

 

To be competitive in champcar, ya gotta get creative and fabricobble stuff.

There're plenty of inserts for like A2 VW that can be adapted to alot of different strut housings.

 

I am just bringing this up, because the kyb are absolute trash and will not last in endurance racing.

MaxC
MaxC Reader
12/10/21 2:14 p.m.
kevinatfms said:

So Bilsteins are a mint to get($300+ PER SHOCK from Germany and for a Tiburon). Not going that direction. Will deal with fresh KYB's for now, cut H&R springs and new bump stops and boots.C

 Curious to see how this goes for you.  I'm in the same boat.  We have about 30 hours on new GR2's and the only drop-in upgrade would be AGX's.  I've heard rumors of lifetime warranties and racers getting these replaced by KYB when they start leaking.  Not saying they're the answer though. We have a lot of body roll with cut springs and GR2's. 

kevinatfms
kevinatfms HalfDork
12/13/21 8:40 a.m.
MaxC said:
kevinatfms said:

So Bilsteins are a mint to get($300+ PER SHOCK from Germany and for a Tiburon). Not going that direction. Will deal with fresh KYB's for now, cut H&R springs and new bump stops and boots.C

 Curious to see how this goes for you.  I'm in the same boat.  We have about 30 hours on new GR2's and the only drop-in upgrade would be AGX's.  I've heard rumors of lifetime warranties and racers getting these replaced by KYB when they start leaking.  Not saying they're the answer though. We have a lot of body roll with cut springs and GR2's. 

The fastest FWD car at the last race was a Prelude. We asked him for some advice and he stated anything adjustable in the shocks is a waste of points. They had basic Eibach lowering springs on Tokicos, no front sway bar and a massive aftermarket splined rear bar. Car had body roll but the car was so fast through the entire course and i believe set the fastest time of the day for nearly every car there with exception of the EC cars. 

I know Bilsteins are what 90% of champ cars use but they just arent an option unless i find a different strut housing(46 or 50mm inserts) that will work for our Elantra.

We signed up for the VIR 12 hour in March. We will see how well my cobbled together performance suspension works at that point.
Our plan:
Front - AGX + H&R Sport springs cut 1-2 coils, no front sway bar(this may change depending on how soft the front gets with regular springs) + new control arms(filled bushings) + tie rods and filled subframe mounts.
Rear - GR-2 + H&R Sport springs cut 1-3 coils, 19mm rear bar, new rear end links(we buggered up the last set during the 8+7 enduro). We can add spring rubbers to firm the rear rate up a bit. 

You'll want the front bar. I tried running no front with H&R's and Tib struts and it was so soft and powed hard. 

MaxC
MaxC Reader
12/13/21 11:29 a.m.
kevinatfms said:
MaxC said:
kevinatfms said:

So Bilsteins are a mint to get($300+ PER SHOCK from Germany and for a Tiburon). Not going that direction. Will deal with fresh KYB's for now, cut H&R springs and new bump stops and boots.C

 Curious to see how this goes for you.  I'm in the same boat.  We have about 30 hours on new GR2's and the only drop-in upgrade would be AGX's.  I've heard rumors of lifetime warranties and racers getting these replaced by KYB when they start leaking.  Not saying they're the answer though. We have a lot of body roll with cut springs and GR2's. 

The fastest FWD car at the last race was a Prelude. We asked him for some advice and he stated anything adjustable in the shocks is a waste of points. They had basic Eibach lowering springs on Tokicos, no front sway bar and a massive aftermarket splined rear bar. Car had body roll but the car was so fast through the entire course and i believe set the fastest time of the day for nearly every car there with exception of the EC cars. 

I know Bilsteins are what 90% of champ cars use but they just arent an option unless i find a different strut housing(46 or 50mm inserts) that will work for our Elantra.

We signed up for the VIR 12 hour in March. We will see how well my cobbled together performance suspension works at that point.
Our plan:
Front - AGX + H&R Sport springs cut 1-2 coils, no front sway bar(this may change depending on how soft the front gets with regular springs) + new control arms(filled bushings) + tie rods and filled subframe mounts.
Rear - GR-2 + H&R Sport springs cut 1-3 coils, 19mm rear bar, new rear end links(we buggered up the last set during the 8+7 enduro). We can add spring rubbers to firm the rear rate up a bit. 

Cool well I can't wait to hear how that turns out.  Our car has had basically only cheap tweaks done to it (cut stock springs and GR2's) and I've dropped close to 6 seconds off our car's fastest lap since the first race (over the course of 3 races with the same exact set of RS4's). Notable improvements ranked by how effective I think they've been:

Welded Diff

Removed Rear Sway bar (the car is RWD)

15ish more hp

30ish lbs lighter

My opinion is that you can optimize the setup you have and make huge gains before needing to buy expensive parts.

Good luck!

kevinatfms
kevinatfms HalfDork
12/13/21 9:10 p.m.
MaxC said:
kevinatfms said:
MaxC said:
kevinatfms said:

So Bilsteins are a mint to get($300+ PER SHOCK from Germany and for a Tiburon). Not going that direction. Will deal with fresh KYB's for now, cut H&R springs and new bump stops and boots.C

 Curious to see how this goes for you.  I'm in the same boat.  We have about 30 hours on new GR2's and the only drop-in upgrade would be AGX's.  I've heard rumors of lifetime warranties and racers getting these replaced by KYB when they start leaking.  Not saying they're the answer though. We have a lot of body roll with cut springs and GR2's. 

The fastest FWD car at the last race was a Prelude. We asked him for some advice and he stated anything adjustable in the shocks is a waste of points. They had basic Eibach lowering springs on Tokicos, no front sway bar and a massive aftermarket splined rear bar. Car had body roll but the car was so fast through the entire course and i believe set the fastest time of the day for nearly every car there with exception of the EC cars. 

I know Bilsteins are what 90% of champ cars use but they just arent an option unless i find a different strut housing(46 or 50mm inserts) that will work for our Elantra.

We signed up for the VIR 12 hour in March. We will see how well my cobbled together performance suspension works at that point.
Our plan:
Front - AGX + H&R Sport springs cut 1-2 coils, no front sway bar(this may change depending on how soft the front gets with regular springs) + new control arms(filled bushings) + tie rods and filled subframe mounts.
Rear - GR-2 + H&R Sport springs cut 1-3 coils, 19mm rear bar, new rear end links(we buggered up the last set during the 8+7 enduro). We can add spring rubbers to firm the rear rate up a bit. 

Cool well I can't wait to hear how that turns out.  Our car has had basically only cheap tweaks done to it (cut stock springs and GR2's) and I've dropped close to 6 seconds off our car's fastest lap since the first race (over the course of 3 races with the same exact set of RS4's). Notable improvements ranked by how effective I think they've been:

Welded Diff

Removed Rear Sway bar (the car is RWD)

15ish more hp

30ish lbs lighter

My opinion is that you can optimize the setup you have and make huge gains before needing to buy expensive parts.

Good luck!

The biggest issue we had was ever changing camber. The bolts would slip nearly every stint causing some ridiculous tire wear and some snap oversteer. We kept pushing the camber back in but it would slip back to positive after 2-3 hard laps.

If we had just stayed with springs/struts we would have been out longer with more laps. So, going back to springs/struts while removing weight and adding a bit more power is the plan for the next race. Also add some sound. We were easily the quietest car by a LONG shot.

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr PowerDork
12/13/21 9:33 p.m.

Loud cars make you fatigued.  We also have a very quiet car!

 

You can set the camber where you want it with the adjustment bolts and then have washers under the bolts and tack the washers where you want them.  It makes it harder to adjust, but how often will you actually adjust it?

kevinatfms
kevinatfms HalfDork
12/14/21 7:46 a.m.
wvumtnbkr said:

Loud cars make you fatigued.  We also have a very quiet car!

 

You can set the camber where you want it with the adjustment bolts and then have washers under the bolts and tack the washers where you want them.  It makes it harder to adjust, but how often will you actually adjust it?

Its quiet in a commuter decibel level. Like you could get in it and drive to work quiet. Just a little more noise(with proper muffler). Not straight pipe rotary loud(the one at VIR was ear piercing).

Add a washer or use the lock washer that comes with the camber bolts? They have that washer with the "foot" on it to hold the bolt in position. I believe i could tack that to the damper quite easily.

And once we set camber we will never want to change it. When the car has a good alignment its flat out fun to drive. When its off the car is a total nightmare out back.

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr PowerDork
12/14/21 8:21 a.m.
kevinatfms said:
wvumtnbkr said:

Loud cars make you fatigued.  We also have a very quiet car!

 

You can set the camber where you want it with the adjustment bolts and then have washers under the bolts and tack the washers where you want them.  It makes it harder to adjust, but how often will you actually adjust it?

Its quiet in a commuter decibel level. Like you could get in it and drive to work quiet. Just a little more noise(with proper muffler). Not straight pipe rotary loud(the one at VIR was ear piercing).

Add a washer or use the lock washer that comes with the camber bolts? They have that washer with the "foot" on it to hold the bolt in position. I believe i could tack that to the damper quite easily.

And once we set camber we will never want to change it. When the car has a good alignment its flat out fun to drive. When its off the car is a total nightmare out back.

As long as the washer is the same size as the shaft of the bolt.  

kevinatfms
kevinatfms HalfDork
12/15/21 8:04 a.m.

Got the H&R springs cut 1 coil off each and put together on the struts. Going to plop them in this weekend and see the ride height. 

kevinatfms
kevinatfms HalfDork
12/20/21 2:01 p.m.

So final determination was 1 cut coil up front and 2 coils in the rear. 

Car sat at 23.75" front and 23.50" rear with the coilovers. Currently with the springs/struts we are at 24" up front and 24.75" in the rear. Its the best it will get at this point without going back to a coilover setup.

Also bought two new sets of tires to replace the Falkens we destroyed. Went with Accelera Sport 651 in a 205/50R16. Taller at 24" tall while the 205/45 and 215/45 are 23.2" and 23.6". They are wider than the 205/45 but slightly thinner than the 215. For $431.80 shipped per set they were over $160 cheaper per set than the Azenis. We will see how well these do over the 12 hours at VIR South.

Accelera Sport 651(200tw)

kevinatfms
kevinatfms HalfDork
12/20/21 2:03 p.m.

Hood cut out completely. Removed as much material as possible. Hood is totally destroyed so it isnt exactly bothersome if a few more holes happened to be cut by me on accident.

Either way, it feels about 1/2 the weight it was before. I think i could probably cut even more out if i really tried.

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