1 2 3
tuna55
tuna55 UltimaDork
3/24/15 11:20 p.m.

Sort of.

It's also "project daily driver", but it just so happens that it will be far less than $2015, so hey, may as well.

Sold to me as a high mileage Accord with a blown up engine. It's an LXi, so it's fuel injected, 120HP A20A3. I had a hunch, so I went to look at it with a bud. We both checked it out. We noticed that it was overfilled by two quarts, both had a "got it!" moment, and I went back to buy it today.

I drove it away, smoking like crazy, about a mile to the gas station. We drained the sump and put in four quarts of Castrol and....

It still smoked.

We pulled over a few miles later and I pulled the valve cover vent and capped it off with a rag and a ziptie. Less smoke, but a nice oil wash for the engine. After we got back to bud's house I pulled the PCV line and capped both that and the valve cover vent line and capped them with a plastic bag. Smoke is gone.

So.

1: Why does this thing have two vents? The PCV line is in the block, and the valve sounds clicky, or at least thuddy, when rattled. That connects upstream of the throttle body. The other vent goes right from the valve cover to the intake, downstream of the throttle body. Why two?

2: I can plainly see oil mist coming out of both lines, as well as the oil fill cap. When capped, no smoke out of the tailpipe says to me that the valve seals are bad. The internet is full of thoughts about a broken piston causing this, but it sounds like it would be burning oil, not just blowing it through the intake, if this was the case. Would a compression test be able to tell the difference between a piston and a valve seal?

3: CEL comes on when we're at high throttle angle for a long time. This could be because of all of the oil, it could also be because I was driving it without an air filter, mostly because it was completely soaked in oil.

4: It needs dampers. Badly. Any good ones for this setup?

tuna55
tuna55 UltimaDork
3/24/15 11:22 p.m.

Pics!

Not my engine

My car, from the sellers ad:

Accord

Accord 2

tuna55
tuna55 UltimaDork
3/24/15 11:28 p.m.

I have a knack for finding winners. This guy was the most hesitant texter ever. He was often unreachable, and generally made it really hard to buy. The car was behind a green house. The entire backyard was fenced in and mud along with 20 other derelict cars and three big dogs, a forklift, and a giant bonfire that some other dude was working on.

When I went there again, a young girl next door shouted "I'll get my Mom for you!"

Then, a few minutes later, a woman next door shouted "He'll be here in a minute!"

Then, a few minutes later, out host arrived and pulled in... next door.

So who lives in the green house?

Oh well, he had a clean title. It was $600. I am going to keep tally of costs two ways, Challenge costs and Real costs.

C: $600

R: $650 (eight quarts of oil, and two soft drinks plus the car purchase)

sethmeister4
sethmeister4 Dork
3/25/15 12:38 a.m.

Glad you got it! Hope you can figure it out without much issue or expense!

JamesMcD
JamesMcD Dork
3/25/15 6:58 a.m.

Spray oil in the cylinder to tell the difference between a bad valve seal or piston ring. If the compression doesn't increase afterwards, it's a bad valve seal.

tuna55
tuna55 UltimaDork
3/25/15 7:19 a.m.
JamesMcD wrote: Spray oil in the cylinder to tell the difference between a bad valve seal or piston ring. If the compression doesn't increase afterwards, it's a bad valve seal.

Good point. I will have to run it for a while with the intake connections capped though, because the cylinders have lots of oil in them already!

When I get it here, I'll do a compression test.

tuna55
tuna55 UltimaDork
3/25/15 7:35 a.m.
tuna55 wrote:
JamesMcD wrote: Spray oil in the cylinder to tell the difference between a bad valve seal or piston ring. If the compression doesn't increase afterwards, it's a bad valve seal.

Good point. I will have to run it for a while with the intake connections capped though, because the cylinders have lots of oil in them already!

When I get it here, I'll do a compression test.

No wait, I knew there was a reason that I didn't think this initially.

If the piston was broken, as the vast interwebz has hypothesized, then oil won't fix the compression test.

I guess condemning one over the other is not a huge deal because pistons are $12 and seals are less than a dollar, but still... Pistons are going to be a lot more work to change.

NOHOME
NOHOME UltraDork
3/25/15 7:37 a.m.

Not sure I approve of anything that is going to get in the way of the truck's progress.

The wife and kids, I can kinda accept, but another car project? FOCUS!

tuna55
tuna55 UltimaDork
3/25/15 7:42 a.m.
NOHOME wrote: Not sure I approve of anything that is going to get in the way of the truck's progress. The wife and kids, I can kinda accept, but another car project? FOCUS!

You're right indeed. This will slow the progress of the truck. It's sort of necessary as the Leaf lease is up in August, and we don't have enough cash to buy something nice. Not much I can do about this.

tuna55
tuna55 UltimaDork
3/25/15 8:06 a.m.

Something doesn't sit right still.

This car has both a valve cover breather which is plumbed to the intake, as well as a pcv, which is plumbed to the intake.

Both are throwing oil mist.

If the valveseal were the culprit(s), it seems that the valve cover breather would have all of the oil. if the piston/rings were the culprit(s), it seems that the PCV would have all of the oil.

So it sounds like both are bad.

SilverFleet
SilverFleet UltraDork
3/25/15 8:11 a.m.

I love these. I had a few friends in high school in the late 1990's that had these. I'd totally rock one as a daily driver.

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 SuperDork
3/25/15 8:42 a.m.

Crankcase pressure does wonky things.

Pcv is under vacuum, valve cover nit so much. Theory is that fresh air gois in valve cover, crankcase fumes get sucked out the pcv.

Clean the whole system with brakeclean, reconnect, and do an Italian tune up. Bet you that it quits smoking.

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 SuperDork
3/25/15 8:43 a.m.

Oh, and I volunteer to be on your challenge team if you want the help. Im gonna get there one way or another.

tuna55
tuna55 UltimaDork
3/25/15 9:06 a.m.
Dusterbd13 wrote: Crankcase pressure does wonky things. Pcv is under vacuum, valve cover nit so much. Theory is that fresh air gois in valve cover, crankcase fumes get sucked out the pcv. Clean the whole system with brakeclean, reconnect, and do an Italian tune up. Bet you that it quits smoking.

Did the Italian tuneup already, cleaned PCV with brake clean, all tubes are clear.

The valve cover is plumbed to the intake upstream of the throttle, so I believe it's negative pressure, meaning sucking out of the valve cover.

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 SuperDork
3/25/15 9:17 a.m.

Hmmmm....

Ill brew on it some more.

Want some eBay accord coil oversfor the cchallenge effort? They're sitting near your calipers. Don't even remember why I bought them

tuna55
tuna55 UltimaDork
3/25/15 10:08 a.m.

Are coilovers really going to be better than cheapo replacement dampers? Especially if I don't want it any lower (~100% DD)?

tuna55
tuna55 UltimaDork
3/25/15 10:26 a.m.
Dusterbd13 wrote: Hmmmm.... Ill brew on it some more. Want some eBay accord coil oversfor the cchallenge effort? They're sitting near your calipers. Don't even remember why I bought them

Crud, I just looked at prices, maybe I will take you up on that.

NOHOME
NOHOME UltraDork
3/25/15 10:30 a.m.

One of my favorite tools when faced with an unknown engine is the leak-down tester. Takes all the guesswork out of the game.

That said, if the engine you have is boogered up, how hard is it to find a usable used Honda engine? I cant see them being worth much more than the price of a socket set. http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/116-0406-cylinder-leakdown-tester/

johndej
johndej Reader
3/25/15 10:37 a.m.

Glad to hear ya grabbed it. Got nothing to add for trouble shooting but hope all goes well !

tuna55
tuna55 UltimaDork
3/25/15 10:40 a.m.

In reply to NOHOME:

Figure a minimum of $250 for a used engine in relatively unknown condition.

$300 for a rebuilt head purchased outright.

$1000 for a rebuilt engine purchased outright.

Valve seals are $1. Pistons are $12 and rings are $15 or something for the set.

So, if it needs stuff, I'll probably just do stuff.

I don't have a leakdown tester. I wonder if they are rentable.

tuna55
tuna55 UltimaDork
3/25/15 11:25 a.m.

Worst case with cheapo engine parts looks pretty decent.

Accord engine parts list

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 SuperDork
3/25/15 11:55 a.m.
tuna55 wrote:
Dusterbd13 wrote: Hmmmm.... Ill brew on it some more. Want some eBay accord coil oversfor the cchallenge effort? They're sitting near your calipers. Don't even remember why I bought them

Crud, I just looked at prices, maybe I will take you up on that.

These are the slip on collar kind. Not the good ones.

But fmv of 20 plus a diet dew sound fair?

tuna55
tuna55 UltimaDork
3/25/15 12:10 p.m.
Dusterbd13 wrote:
tuna55 wrote:
Dusterbd13 wrote: Hmmmm.... Ill brew on it some more. Want some eBay accord coil oversfor the cchallenge effort? They're sitting near your calipers. Don't even remember why I bought them

Crud, I just looked at prices, maybe I will take you up on that.

These are the slip on collar kind. Not the good ones.

But fmv of 20 plus a diet dew sound fair?

I have no earthly idea.

Let's get it running first. Also, maybe http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/dampers-free-upgrades-and-questions/34955/page2/

Are phoni's better than ebay dampers? Maybe..

mazdeuce
mazdeuce PowerDork
3/25/15 1:10 p.m.

You have more crank case pressure than the intake can suck out under vacuum. You're pushing oil mist into the intake through the PVC as well as the breather which is supposed to be sucking in rather than blowing out. You need to sort out the source of the pressure. I bet a ring or two isn't doing it's job. What do the plugs look like?
Edit: and whatever you do, keep those lines open and flowing. The moment that pressure doesn't have any place to go you'll push all of the seals out of the motor.

tuna55
tuna55 UltimaDork
3/25/15 1:16 p.m.
mazdeuce wrote: You have more crank case pressure than the intake can suck out under vacuum. You're pushing oil mist into the intake through the PVC as well as the breather which is supposed to be sucking in rather than blowing out. You need to sort out the source of the pressure. I bet a ring or two isn't doing it's job. What do the plugs look like? Edit: and whatever you do, keep those lines open and flowing. The moment that pressure doesn't have any place to go you'll push all of the seals out of the motor.

Yeah I hope plugging them with a plastic baggie for ten seconds to check the oil content of the exhaust didn't hurt anything.

It won't be in my driveway until much later this evening. I'll check compression and plugs tomorrow most likely.

1 2 3
Our Preferred Partners
9FbO1c2S9bUJwH3hmhJ5s9bvgI2pZRe0Tg9sAfzqmGGS3eyniF6rLw72pisUGydd