2 3 4 5
SkinnyG
SkinnyG UltraDork
9/19/18 8:17 p.m.

Wikipedia shows the J35A4 rated at 240hp.  That's at 14.7psi atmospheric.  6psi on top of that makes 20.7psi going into the engine, an increase of 41%. 41% more power would theoretically give you 338hp, which could realistically be 250 to the wheels with drivetrain (and other) losses.  I'd say you're doing good at 6psi, and around what I would be expecting.

Clearly, you need a turbo feeding into the supercharger. Fate has spoken.  I look forward to your progress. laugh

Ottobon
Ottobon New Reader
9/20/18 2:53 a.m.

i enjoy more then anything else that you firmly placed the engine in the correct location 

SLGGR
SLGGR New Reader
9/22/18 9:59 a.m.

Thank you all for the input as this is my first expedition into supercharging anything.   The motor and supercharger just runs so good as it is so it just doesn't "feel" like I'm missing something so major as to be short this much power so I think I'll just keep trying to tune it as it is and see where it takes me.....but I definitely don't think I'm going to make 400 with this setup.    Turbo feeding the supercharger....oh boy, sounds like a winter project to me and one that is certainly intriguing.  (what a odd orchestra that would create....;) )   

Had it at another track night this last week and picked up 6 seconds on my lap times after some susupension tuning which was a reckless combination of wild ass guesses.   My approach to this is haphazard at best but it is certainly entertaining.   

SLGGR
SLGGR New Reader
9/24/18 11:05 a.m.

anyone have any idea where a guy could go to get, or build, an air to water heat exhchanger to mount between the supercharger and the intake?    

SLGGR
SLGGR New Reader
9/25/18 4:56 p.m.

OK, found this...... https://zzperformance.com/collections/3800/products/intercooler-cores    talked with the guy and he claims 110-160 degree temp drops dependent upon blower speed.   did the calculations and ordered a smaller pulley for the super charger that should give me 10 psi boost at redline.   Get all this on in the next week or so and back to the dyno.   My tuner thinks that by the numbers I should be over 300 at the wheel now keeping all the internals stock.   This could be fun.   

SLGGR
SLGGR New Reader
10/4/18 11:55 a.m.

Got the intercooler set up complete, changed from a 3.8" pulley to a 3" pulley and just got back from the dyno.   I ran the intercooler through two coolers, one plate/fin trans cooler and one 36" long aluminum finned cooler.....both mounted up front getting direct air in front of the radiator.   Instead of 9-10 psi boost that was expected by calculations I got 6 psi at 6000 rpm's.   Intake temps were amazingly low at 80-90 degrees so the intercooler is working fanastically.   I gained only 35 HP and 20 lb/ft torque.     Only got to 279 HP when I expected to get over 300 easy.....the dyno is the great disappointer.    On the dyno sheet the red line is my old J32A2 naturally aspirated final run, the green line is the previous dyno tune with the J35 with the supercharger and the blue line is todays J35A4 run with the supercharger/3" pulley and intercooler.   One thing I find interesting is that I do not see the Vtec blip on either of the J35 runs like you see on the J32 run.  Tested the Vtec solenoid and it does power on and click under load at at the same RPM as the J32 but there is no blip and no difference....it also doesn't see that same non linear upward climb.   Anyone have any insight into this issue?    Hope these periodic updates aren't annoying, this place just seems to be a really good place to get the info I can't seem to find elsewhere.

SleepyWeasel
SleepyWeasel New Reader
10/23/18 7:43 p.m.

In reply to SLGGR :

You're going to have to spin that little blower a lot faster to get up to 10psi I think. As far as the vtec blip, my suspicion would be that the supercharger is masking it. Basically vtec makes a noticable difference N/A because it is much more sensitive to changes in cam profile and lift since the only thing putting the air in is atmosphere. With more air forced into the engine than it can breathe anyway changing the size of the opening its passing through won't make as big of a difference. Your vtec is probably working normally if the solenoid works manually as long as your tuner hasnt deleted it or something.

bigeyedfish
bigeyedfish Reader
10/24/18 12:19 p.m.

I missed your last update.  I don't have anything to contribute, but these occasional updates are not annoying at all.  This is one of my favorite builds on this site.  It just presses all the right buttons for me.

SLGGR
SLGGR New Reader
1/15/19 2:13 p.m.

Winter breakdown complete.   In the chase for 300 dyno'd HP I have put on a 2.8" pulley vs the 3.0" I had on there.   Have an appt for another dyno tune on the 30th of Jan.   Also going to do some suspension tuning and corner balancing while it's there.    Found a pin hole in the radiator so I pulled it and had it properly fixed and threw on a shrouded dual electric fan setup that does seem to move a LOT more air.   Not that I had a cooling problem but I certainly won't now.   Installed a new oil pressure sender as the old one seemed to give me attitude from time to time.   Mounted the boost guage and a new Innovate AFR guage in the dash instead of half assed mounted where I couldn't actually see them anyway.   Changed all the fluids(4 oil changes in 2600 miles).     Tidy'd up quite a bit of afterthoughts, painted some stuff, and gave it all a good cleaning.    Spent a LOT of time waterproofing as when I'd take it out before and got stuck in the rain I'd end up with pooling water at my feet.   Pretty confident she's water tight now.   Needed new tires as my rear tires were so worn that they didn't even hold air anymore.   Had a lot of fun smoking the inside wheel on turns the last track night.   Decided to go with Toyo R888R's this time instead of the R888's.   Was going to go with Hoosiers but the way I go through tires and the fact that I street this car regularly I decided on the Toyo's being $100/tire cheaper.   I may order in another set of wheels for track only.   I'm toying with the suspension quite a bit, set her down LOW this year and will raise up if needed....I'll likely only need to raise the front to keep from interfering with the flares in turns.  Brakes all look remarkably good considering what I put them through.   Counting the days until Track Nights....or just warm weather and having a new tune in the EMS.   If I don't break 300HP this time I'm going to swallow my head.   Not sure what else to do if this pulley doesnt get me there.   Turbos?   Turbo WITH SC?   This car will never be done so every year will just be another meander into the what if's.   Oh, put a rally style air vent on the roof for some good 'ol red neck A/C.   Haven't found a scoop that I like to cover it yet though.

 

ETA:   Just picked up a good, used Gen V M90 supercharger to try out. ($100)  Word on the street is they're far more efficient and I can expect 20 HP to the wheels using the same pulley  vs. my Gen III I have now.   If this is true with the smaller pulley I'll be over 300HP.   I'm sure the dyno will be the great disappointer yet again though.   Haven't had my Innovate LC2 wideband O2 and controller on for a dyno run either yet.   

carwhisperer
carwhisperer Reader
1/15/19 4:35 p.m.

I'm no math teacher but I think you're right around 5lbs per crank hp, maybe less. What new cars have a power to weight ratio like that? Maybe a McClaren or Ferrari or two?

SLGGR
SLGGR New Reader
1/22/19 11:35 a.m.

I'll have it on the scales soon, expecting that it'll be about 1800 lbs with me in it.   Was just a wee bit over 1400 without the seats and without me in it the last time I scaled it.   So....   .17HP/lb   The Backdraft Racing cobra reproduction I just got is .2HP/lb with 500 HP and 2440 lbs.  We'll see which handles best

bOttOmfeeder
bOttOmfeeder New Reader
1/23/19 7:15 a.m.

I'm working on building up a '76 International Scout II Terra with a Four Wheel Pop Up camper.   Nice old rig that needs some cancer addressed but has a strong running 345v8 and a t-19 four speed.   Going to do a 4" suspension spring lift or may go down a looney route and do 4 link suspension front and rear with coil overs.   35" tall skinnies, lockers and 4.10's or 4.56's ought to make it work as my elk hunting rig.       

.....anxiously waiting for pictures and the build ..... 

SLGGR
SLGGR New Reader
1/24/19 9:03 a.m.

In reply to bOttOmfeeder :

I am getting ready to put the scout up for sale, got side lined and have changed gears on this project.....  I'm a bit unreliable when it comes to bouncing around on projects.

wheelsmithy
wheelsmithy SuperDork
1/24/19 2:15 p.m.

Fantastic!

 

BrianC72gt
BrianC72gt New Reader
1/24/19 6:30 p.m.

If you are looking for an air to water intercooled Eaton M122,  brand new for under $800, then here you go:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Eaton-M122-Supercharger-for-Northstar-4-4L-V8-2006-09-Cadillac-STS-V-and-XLR-V/282765181984?hash=item41d61e4420:g:~TAAAOxyyghQ9MUp:rk:2:pf:0

The top hat houses laminova cores and bolts to the blower below.  The runners are cast into the side of the blower body.  The blower sucks air in from the rear and blows it up through the cooler cores then over and down into the intake runners.  It also includes the the throttle by wire throttle body.

I know of one guy who lopped off the runners, made his own and mated it to a D3 Audi A8 engine.

Or you could just rig up a water/ethanol injection kit that triggers on boost.

SLGGR
SLGGR New Reader
2/6/19 10:59 a.m.

My intake is specific for the M90, was looking at M112's the other day.   How hard do you all think it would be to adapt  the M112 to my current intake?   I got off the dyno the other day with my smaller pulley and got ZERO gains.   Seem to be maxed out at 7 lbs of boost.    Further reading on the GenV M90 tells me that I'm likely not going to see much improvement putting it on there....so this M112 is looking pretty interesting.   

SLGGR
SLGGR New Reader
2/25/19 8:25 p.m.

Not going to stick with the supercharger, just not getting it done.   Decided I’m going to go the turbo route.  In the infant stages of this but my local guru has run the numbers and I’m waffling between the Borg Warner EFR 7064 or 7163.   7064, by the numbers should max out at 300-350HP at 14 psi and give more linear power.   The 7163 should give a lot more power but a lot more boost and a lot less linear.   I’d want to utilize the boost controller and keep the boost numbers down on the stock motor with stock internals.   Motors are cheap but I don’t need to be swapping them all the time.   Got a good lesson on learning how to tune this thing with the AEM software and with a few tweaks this car runs so much smoother.  Love these Honda v6’s.   Question for those that know more than me.......my old NA J32A2 that I blew up would crackle and pop on deceleration, I can’t get this J35A4 to give me any crackle and pop, is the SC keeping it from happening?

mke
mke Reader
2/26/19 5:30 p.m.
SLGGR said:

Not going to stick with the supercharger, just not getting it done.   DDecidedecided I’m going to go the turbo route.  In the infant stages of this but my local guru has run the numbers and I’m waffling between the Borg Warner EFR 7064 or 7163.   7064, by the numbers should max out at 300-350HP at 14 psi and give more linear power. 

The SC is too small.  I played this game with my 308.  Started with the MP90 and spun it to its 14k redline which made about 10psi and 301rwhp. 

Then added a water/air intercooler and a lyscholm ax2300 and spun it to its 15k redline...that was the right blower.  It made 24psi and 450rwhp.  With 285 wide tires 1st gear was worthless....good for idling around the parking lot but there was just no way to control wheel spin.  2nd gear was better but launch from was still only 2500 and I had to watch the boost gauge, 10-12 psi was all the tires would take.  At 60mph on the highway dropping into 3rd and dropping the clutch it would spin the tire to redline at about 85mph.

...oh and the kevlar clutch and heavy pressure plate lasted 1 launch.  

I promise a blower can get it done if you pick the right one.  A turbo will too of course, they just drive different.  Add a blower and it feels like you have a big block, more power everywhere, idle to redline anytime you want it.   A turbo will make more power but in a more limited rpm range, drive it right and be rewarded, drive it wrong and be punished.

 

Love you project!

SLGGR
SLGGR New Reader
3/1/19 8:13 p.m.

Ordered a Borg Warner EFR 7163 v-band turbo today.   Have to make an intake and figure out all the plumbing but I’ve got a couple months to get all the kinks worked out.  According to my tuning guru we ought to make a safe 350HP easy.   Thinking about putting in a switch that will allow more boost and get me into the 400’s when I want it.    Will play with the 2step settings for fun being that I’m not a drag racer.  Excited for this new chapter and hearing all the crazy turbo sounds

valerianodavid26
valerianodavid26
3/2/19 9:39 p.m.

In reply to SLGGR :

hey brother, this thread has been a little quiet for the last couple months but i might give it a try,

do you still have this M90 setup? i might be interested in buying it or maybe you can tell me where you ordered it?

thanks a lot

SLGGR
SLGGR New Reader
3/3/19 11:52 a.m.

I’ve two m90 SC’s(GenIII and Gen V that I didn’t use), pulleys(3.8, 3.2 and 3.0” with ZZ performance quick change hub) and a ZZ Performance pulley puller that I’m selling to offset this nonsense I’m undertaking.   The intake I am keeping because I am adapting it for my future intake as I want to continue to use my air/water intercooler.   I ordered the kit from Minitec.  There are some kits that mount to the stock intake but I didn’t like them much.  Let me know if you’re interested.

valerianodavid26
valerianodavid26 New Reader
3/4/19 1:27 p.m.

In reply to SLGGR :

Dm me your phone number, maybe we can sort things out!

thanks a lot man

SLGGR
SLGGR New Reader
6/3/19 1:34 p.m.

Update, got the turbo installed and got the car running.   Set the internal wastegate at a minimal setting to keep from blowing this motor to pieces.   Used the old M90 as an intake by gutting the internals and using a block off plate.   Not the best situation but I wanted to retain the air/water intercooler between the M90 and the intake so I just took out the rotors and hogged out all the extra aluminum to have as big of an opening into the intercooler as I could.....and it fit the throttle body I have already.    Not using a muffler in my short exhaust run and it's surprisingly quiet until about 3000 RPM where there's a bit of a drone.   Power comes on like a freight train and the fuel/load curve goes straight to 10PSI, there's nearly no lag at all.   I'm outrunning the duty cycle of my injectors beyond 5000 RPM now so I've got a set of injectors showing up tomorrow to hopefully have installed and fuel remapped before my dyno session on Thursday.   I sought to get over the 300HP mark and there's no question I'm over that now.   By the numbers I'm making 340HP at 6500 and nearly 400lb/ft at 4500 and you can feel it big time, car actually starts to lose traction in full boost at that 4500-5000 mark.   Scary fast now and once I have the fuel right, timing fiddled with and bump my boost level to the 12-14PSI mark I'm guessing I'll be at around 375+ at the wheel.   

 

Initial start up video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GPnA8J1KnI

Couple driving videos I've made:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFFOhtONcks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wQogVlAIgI&t=5s

 

Have to get a few hundred road miles in before I take off to the Minimeet East meets West event in Aspen on June 24th.   

Got a PCV catch can set up to install as well as go through everything to make sure she's good to go on long drives.   So far, SLGGR runs cool(stays at 185 even after multiple butt dyno tuning runs) and I've tinkered with the compression settings on the suspension enough to drive well on roads and have a good idea where I need to be on the track.   First Track Night in America sessions of the year are coming up on June 13th, REALLY excited to get it back on the track running like this.   The car feels so much faster now than with the supercharger.....boost through the entire RPM range feels ridiculous vs that linear, gradual jump.   Oh yeah, somehow I got that decelleration burbling/crackling bit back and I'm now popping fireballs on decell and between shifts.   Love it.

SLGGR
SLGGR New Reader
6/3/19 8:01 p.m.

Just picked up a diesel ‘76 International Traveller that was 99% completely rust free.   Fixing the wee bit of rust on the floor under the dreaded International runner mat, I’ve begun POR15’ing all of the interior and all of the underside, building a 392 and going to put a Holley Sniper FI system on it, rebuild/inspect the 4 speed trans and transfer case, order a set of Deaver or Alcan custom 5” lift springs, put a Detroit in the rear and probably an ARB in the front axle.  Getting front and rear D&C Extreme bumpers and a 10 or 12K winch.  Also getting a full front to back cage kit.   Going to install 50ml thick Kilmer throughout the entire interior and 1/4 thick closed cell foam sound deafening throughout.   Has factory paint that good so I’m going to leave the exterior all but fully retro.   Getting a set of 10.5x35” tires and going to run stock steelies.   Fun family cruiser that I’ll be able to drive anywhere.    

Samebutdifferent
Samebutdifferent New Reader
6/4/19 10:37 a.m.

Pictures and build thread?

2 3 4 5
Our Preferred Partners
Fdrzl1ljbulVddl3DRuupTY4UQVufeYGcNcqFjNERxveS5PD4x1WxjzsTHSnEDsU