oldeskewltoy
oldeskewltoy UltraDork
10/12/18 8:08 a.m.

In reply to hhaase :

yep...   figured I'd supply you with more information wink

hhaase
hhaase HalfDork
10/12/18 4:58 p.m.

Pistons are here.  Now that I've verified they are correct, and was able to measure the ring sizes, I can start picking out rings.  ARP rod bolts will be here Monday, then I can drop all this off at the shop to clean up and assemble. 

 

oldeskewltoy
oldeskewltoy UltraDork
10/14/18 7:00 p.m.

one more recommendation...  the metal inside timing cover is also the cam seal retainer(you want this), the bolt holes (in head and block) will no longer line up with all the mounting holes in the cover.   to avoid frustration get head and block mounted, then adjust holes in inside timing cover

hhaase
hhaase HalfDork
11/3/18 8:30 a.m.

Rods are done getting reconditioned with the ARP bolts,  but I’m not going to be able to get to the shop to pick them up for a week or so.

in the meantime,  could use some ring recommendations.   Currently leaning toward total seal’s standard rings (not their gapless line).  May also go with NPR.  Would prefer file fit over pre-gapped.  

Not a huge amount of options out there.

oldeskewltoy
oldeskewltoy UltraDork
11/3/18 4:29 p.m.

In reply to hhaase :

std bore... ring sizes: 1.2, 1.5, 2.8?

 

You can use Honda Prelude rings (88-91)

hhaase
hhaase HalfDork
11/3/18 5:56 p.m.

Yep.  Measures the pistons to confirm.  1.2 1.5 2.8

hhaase
hhaase HalfDork
1/1/19 12:24 a.m.

Finally got off my lazy ass and picked up the resized rods with the ARP bolts fitted,  and fitted the pistons.  Still haven’t decided on rings yet.  I want something appropriately good for the build,  but not Uber-fancy and excessive.  Since I’m essentially ending up with a near stock late 4AGZE short block,  I’ll probably go with the NPR rings.  

I’m also contemplating pulling the air conditioning.  I rarely use it, and it’s not very effective anyway.  Just taking up weight and space most of the time.  But may come in handy on long transits.  Would  be nice to use the location for a dry sump pump in the future.

 

 

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
1/1/19 5:55 a.m.

You want AC on One Lap. Even if you think you can be ok with the windows down, the reduced fatigue from being able to drive with the windows up at a comfortable temperature is worth every ounce. We lost AC for one transit last year and 7 hours at 80mph with the windows down meant no sleeping. That sucked. 

hhaase
hhaase HalfDork
3/3/19 10:25 a.m.

Really not enjoying the fact my current garage is unheated,  was a huge benefit at the old house.   So still in hibernation a bit here,  as it's currently March, and today the high temp will be -4F.  I did however source more parts,  in anticipation of warm weather.

Pistons rods are resized, with the ARP studs, and pistons are mounted on the rods.

I have rings,  and made a 3D printed bore square so I can check the gap.

Gasket set and new head bolts are on the way.

Progress to begin again soon.

hhaase
hhaase HalfDork
3/3/19 11:21 a.m.

From the box,  the Hastings rings are giving me good gap numbers.  .014" on the top ring, .015" on the 2nd ring, and .015" on the 3rd ring.  I actually really like those numbers, nicely done Hastings.  Will of course check each ring prior to piston install for the intended cylinder.  But this engine so far is hitting numbers perfectly every step of the way.  

-Hans

 

hhaase
hhaase HalfDork
3/4/19 9:51 a.m.

A couple of the 2nd rings were a bit tighter than I’d like,  so I’ll have to open them up a bit.   No worries there,  I’ll probably bring them all to .016”

i do have one top ring that gives me .020” gap though which is outside what I’d consider acceptable.   Thankfully all 4 cylinders give me same measurements with each of the top rings,  so it’s just the ring and not the bore.  Just emailed Hastings to see if I can buy single rings.

oldeskewltoy
oldeskewltoy UberDork
3/9/19 1:22 p.m.

In reply to hhaase :

How far out?   Just thinking I'd rather have a bit too much gap, then a ring that ends up binding....   If I'm not mistaken, this engine will be seeing high rpm for extended periods of time....

 

from the FSM... Maximum ring gaps: top ring 1.07mm(.0421"), 2nd ring 1.02mm(.0402"), oil ring 1.12mm(.0441")

hhaase
hhaase HalfDork
3/9/19 11:12 p.m.

Those numbers are for maximum gap before needing replacement on a worn ring and bore.   Specs for a new install are significantly tighter than that.  

I just rechecked all my gaps again, to make sure I didn't miss anything.  3 of them were giving me .016-.017 which is pretty much right on the nose, using a .005 ring factor for the calculation and the bore size.  (3.189" x .005 = .0159).    That oddball ring was giving me .023/.024,  I checked it in all 4 cylinders to verify it was the ring and not the cylinder.  And the cylinder was in-spec with the other three rings.  

Just need to wait on that replacement ring.  I ordered 2, 'just in case'.   I hate waiting.....

-Hans

hhaase
hhaase HalfDork
3/11/19 7:36 p.m.

New rings arrived today, measured within the spec's I'm happy with, so I installed piston #4 into the motor. Oil clearance on the rod bearings checked good with plastigauge,  so I torqued things up and did some verifications to make sure parts were installed correctly.   Things are looking quite good on this build so far.

Here's it is waiting for the cylinder head.   Going to have to go re-check that one oil passage with the head gasket, looks slightly askew in this photo. 

 

hhaase
hhaase HalfDork
3/11/19 7:53 p.m.

Well, all the photos I can find of the head gasket seem to support that it's 'normal' for that one oil port on the lower left to be partially shadowed by the gasket.  That, and the head-side of the location is much smaller than the block-side of the port.  So I'm not too worried right now.  For the moment, I have the head sitting on the block,  just a couple bolts slightly snug to hold it in place.   I seem to only have 5 head bolt washers laying around so I'll have to source some more.

I do have some photos of the chambers on this head,  OST did a hell of a job from what I can see so far.  Haven't exposed the intake and exhaust ports yet to view inside there.   The chamber size and shaping looks to be a great match to the factory GZE high compression pistons.    

 

hhaase
hhaase HalfDork
3/12/19 9:26 p.m.

local Toyota dealer is getting the head bolt washers for me, and T3 sending me some adjustable cam gears.  Thankfully this will carry me through a lot of the work and no more overly spendy parts needed for a while.

Trying  to decide if a lightweight flywheel is worth it,  and which clutch to use.  But still a couple months from needing them.

oldeskewltoy
oldeskewltoy UberDork
3/13/19 8:04 p.m.
hhaase said:

Trying  to decide if a lightweight flywheel is worth it,  and which clutch to use.  But still a couple months from needing them.

I use the Blacktop flywheel - lightest of all the OEM options - 212/215 disc surface. about $300 ish.  Two Toda options one ultra light (3.7? kilos) uses 200mm disc surface, or 4.4? kilo version uses 212/215 disc. Fidanza has a version.  Exedy makes one too.   

 

hhaase
hhaase HalfDork
3/15/19 12:28 p.m.

I've been leaning toward the black-top flywheel, as opposed to aluminum units.   But to be honest I haven't dug into it too terribly much yet.   It's not like I need it yet so I've been more focused on the internals.   

Speaking of which,  I got notification my cam gears are out for delivery, and I picked up the head bolt washers at Toyota yesterday.   So time to do some more assembly this weekend.   I don't see any reason to suspect valve to piston interference, but I do want to verify that pretty soon here.

-Hans

 

 

hhaase
hhaase HalfDork
3/21/19 7:38 p.m.

Getting close to finishing up this engine,  mainly worrying right now about getting the valve covers and oil pan clean,  then I can seal up the bottom end.  After that a few smaller things like water pump and timing belt.  

After that it’ll be time to source the clutch / flywheel,  and on to the swap.

hhaase
hhaase HalfDork
5/10/19 3:27 p.m.

First autocross of the season is tomorrow, and I haven't found funding for the clutch/flywheel yet,  so I'm still stuck using 'ole leaky.   Not a concern however as tomorrow is the first autocross of the season and I didn't break anything in the off season.  So I'm set to pick up where I was at the end of 2018. 

YAY ME!

But bad news always finds its way here.  As it turns out, apparently my local group is the LAST one in the country still running autocross under the NASA rules set.  Sounds like we'll be going SCCA for next season.  This will shake up the classificationsf or me a lot.   As the car currently sits it would end up in DP,  I think a few things would keep me out of DSP,  I have to keep digging.   But I have a lot of thinking to do about this whole project with this big of a change for how I use the car the most.

hhaase
hhaase HalfDork
5/11/19 9:56 a.m.

The more I read the convoluted and bloviated SCCA rules set, the less enthusiastic I am about where I'm going to fall for 2020 when it comes to autocrossing.   

I'm essentially booted out of nearly all the tiers of the street categories unless I go back and piece together an original suspension setup,  and go from there with new inserts/springs on stock strut housings.  My plans to add a turbo onto this car are also in question now too, due to where classing will end up.    As it stands right now it looks like I'll either end up in DP or SSM,  both of which I'd be completely uncompetitive.   Not that I was worried about it, but as of 2020 my car will be officially disqualified from any national level SCCA competition anyway due to age.   So no matter which way this unfolds,  going from NASA to SCCA will force me to completely alter the build philosophy on this car if I'm going to continue autocrossing it at all.  This of course will also dramatically change how things work alongside the intended ultimate goal on this car for doing One-Lap, which has been pretty difficult financially for me to even contemplate the past couple of years.   

Having the local group under NASA rules was a really advantageous situation for me in many ways.  Without that advantage a lot of questions come up regarding the viability of this project.  So until I figure out what's going on with my local club, which they may not even come to a decision about until later this year,  all modifications to this car are officially on hold.   I just can't justify any financial or time expenditures on a car with an unknown future.   Something is going to have to give way here.  I just don't know what that will be.

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
5/11/19 10:18 a.m.

You wrote... 

... but as of 2020 my car will be officially disqualified from any national level SCCA competition anyway due to age. 

 

I did not know this was a thing? True? 

hhaase
hhaase HalfDork
5/11/19 10:48 a.m.

It's under the 'Street Category' header in the 2019 rules.  I'm still getting used to the format of the SCCA rules, but it does look like it only applies to the 'Street' categories on 2nd glance.  Either way, I'm still in SSM or DP at the local level,  both of which I'll be a cellar dwellar.   DP at the National level?  No point in even showing up.

Appendix A.

"Cars designated model year 1988 and older are not eligible for National Solo® competition but may continue to participate in Regional Solo® events.

docwyte
docwyte UltraDork
5/11/19 11:23 a.m.

The car isn't competitive.

So just build it the way you want and have fun.  Who cares about a plaque or plastic gold trophy anyways? 

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
5/11/19 3:48 p.m.

Amen. I run all of my cars in our local STO or Street Touring Other class for anything that is roughly a street touring type car on 200tw tires but doesn't fit another class. A bunch of regions run a similar class and I recommend that you recommend that your region does the same, it's fun. Otherwise just sign up for SSM or something silly and go have fun comparing yourself on raw time. 

We missed you this week by the way. Hoping to see you in South Bend 51 weeks from now.

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