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zordak
zordak Reader
8/4/18 10:57 a.m.

Ok changed the BIN to 24 lb/hr and tried again. Same problems. Double checked that I indeed swapped chips and not just put the same one back in.(I done it before in similar situations) Going to get out of the coveralls and go get an O2 sensor and see if that helps.

zordak
zordak Reader
8/4/18 7:18 p.m.

O2 sensor reading fluctuating all over the place. Swapped O2 sensors, ran a ground wire from the header to the ECU and no difference. Might try switching to the old ECU. Other than that I am at a loss.

zordak
zordak Reader
8/5/18 3:22 p.m.

After a lot of thinking I have decided to try getting new injectors. Unfortunately funds are hard to come by and I do not want to go the cheap ebay route again. Too many other things needing attention right now, maybe in a month or so. In the mean time I will try playing with the BIN to see if I can get  reasonable tune going.

zordak
zordak Reader
8/6/18 9:35 a.m.

Looked at the data, my opinion is that the injectors are not closing fast enough and until the ECU shortens up the pulse width a lot it just bleeds fuel. When the pulse width gets short enough the injectors start closing and then the A/F ratio goes way lean then the ECU panics and widens the pulse and we have leaky injectors again. Went back and checked where I got the injectors from and I believe these are for a modern car that individually fires the injectors not a batch fire on the same wire. I think I am getting some sort of current induction when the ECU shuts off the injectors on a long pulse. Anyway either i mess with trying resisters, capacitors, or diodes to smooth things out or I just change injectors.

AngryCorvair
AngryCorvair MegaDork
8/6/18 11:32 a.m.

In reply to zordak :

that is all beyond my experience but i'm following so i can learn something.   also following because 3rd gen.

zordak
zordak Reader
8/7/18 9:35 a.m.

All of this ECU and injection is new to me too. I am mostly following stuff from thirdgen.org and using what little I know about electronics, computers and PLCs to fill in somewhat. I did some more checking and I think my ground wires the ECU uses to fire the injectors is a little small I did not realize the injectors in batch fire are pulling 4 amps. Makes me wonder what GM is using to switch these things.

zordak
zordak Reader
8/8/18 9:34 a.m.

Went out to the garage and ran some heavier wire for the injector grounds and it seemed to help a bit. The pulse width evened out a bit, but I still am getting random drops in O2 sensor voltages it will run high (800-900mv) then drop to 4-5 mv for a second then jump back up. The drop does not last as long before the wire upgrade but still there. I am going to run a separate set of wires for the O2 sensor next and see if that makes a difference.

zordak
zordak Reader
8/12/18 5:25 p.m.

Ok The injectors might just work, I'm not going to replace them yet. I tried to wire the O2 sensor direct to the ECU and still had the same problems of the readings randomly dropping. I then re-connected the OEM wire and ran the ground to a boss on the intake manifold, then I checked for resistance between the connector and the header and got zero resistance and checked again. Basically the same thing. Did some more research on Thirdgen.org and found a recommendation that a heated o2 sensor be used with any headers. So I ordered a 3 wire sensor and will get it wired in and see if the readings settle out.

zordak
zordak Reader
8/19/18 8:39 p.m.

Ok  cleaned up the wiring by having to remove the right front wheel and the inner wheel well cover. I ran the new ground wires for the injectors and the ground for the O2 sensor. I then figured out that removing the knock sensor module left me with a pair of wires, one ground and one a switched +12vdc. Unfortunately it is a low current source. So I went and got a relay and a fuse holder and wired in the relay to power the new O2 sensor. After wiring all this in I fired it up and looked at the data. Still showed running rich. Has to be injectors right? Well I increased the injector size in the program to  29 from 19 and got the BLMs bouncing between 119 and 131 (125 is ideal). So take it for a ride. I put the car back together and clean the windows so I can see and take it for a ride. Just after I leave the driveway the BLMs shoot up to 160 (maxed out) the INT jump around a little so it is not too lean. Also the ECU is not seeing a vehicle speed. No speed means it does operate the trans correctly, as well as other engine control stuff. Any way I need to do some more wiring from the vehicle speed buffer to the ECU so it can see a vehicle speed and then I need to try the using 24 for the injector flow rate. Getting closer, at the point I need take it out to try it.

zordak
zordak Reader
8/22/18 9:26 a.m.

I spent a little time last evening and got the wires run from the vehicle speed buffer to the ECU and swapped the chip for the 24lb injectors. One of the other cars in the fleet was parked behind the 'bird and I was feeling lazy so I did not take it out. I will probably do so tonight.

GCrites80s
GCrites80s Reader
8/22/18 1:34 p.m.

Did the heated O2 sensor change the richness at all, even a little bit? Did it raise the idle?

zordak
zordak Reader
8/23/18 9:49 a.m.

The heated O2 sensor smoothed out the readings from the sensor. Without it would read rich with random drops to near zero. With it I get an accurate readings. An O2 sensor needs to be at temp to work right. With the headers the sensor is about 10 inches further down stream, not enough heat to read properly.

Took it out last night. The 24lb tune maxed out the BLM before I got out of the garage. Switched to 22lb in the tune and it ran some what in the middle, but ran lousy. I think it is missing badly, and probably the cheap plug wires I modified to work around the headers . I need to sort this out before I go any further. Going to try the a little spray of water on the headers near the head to see which cylinder(s) are not firing.

GCrites80s
GCrites80s Reader
8/23/18 11:38 p.m.

I'm in another situation with the VSS in that I have an automatic chip but have a manual transmission. The VSS needs realistic information for the rest of the computer to work properly. So your VSS not reading isn't affecting idle or misfiring at low speed but still is driving the Colecovison computer nuts. The second that I push in the clutch while moving the computer goes nuts and shoots the idle to 1500+ rpm.

Every other aspect of the car is pure Chevrolet (or Pontiac) ownership but dealing with anything regarding the TPI system is like owing a Lamborghini. Few other GM owners can say that.

zordak
zordak Reader
8/24/18 9:46 a.m.

I would look into getting the correct chip for it. I'm not sure what all the differences are or if it is just the chip and not the rest of the memcal but having the right chip is important to have a well behaved car. As far as my setup goes I think my coil mount is part of the problem along with the cheap plug wires.

GCrites80s
GCrites80s Reader
8/24/18 10:59 a.m.

Yeah people keep telling me the automatic tune should be OK because when they did their manual swaps it was fine but this just isn't working out. I also want to change over to the heated O2 sensor since I have mid-length headers.

zordak
zordak Reader
8/27/18 9:53 a.m.

Check out thirdgen.org for the details on doing the swap to a heated O2 sensor. All the info is there in the forums, just have to find it.

zordak
zordak Reader
8/31/18 9:31 a.m.

Finally had a chance to look at things. Turns out the #5 plug wire was off. Started to check things out and it started stumbling. Running out of gas again. 5 gallons gone and only about 10 miles, if that. Will get gas in it and then take it to the station and fill it up.

zordak
zordak Reader
9/4/18 9:31 a.m.

Ok I got my hands on an infrared thermometer and checked header tubes while idling. All of the tubes are reading around the same. So since it idles nice, responds when the ECU changes the idle and runs rich according to the O2 readings I am going to burn a chip that turns the fan on earlier, disables the AIR pump and use 19lbs/hr for the injector and just drive the thing and see if long term it throws a running rich code(haven't seen one yet). I need to change the break in conventional oil to synthetic along with a filter. When I took it out to get gas I forgot to light foot it and it spun the tires so it can't be running that badly. Also I get some time in it before winter hits.

zordak
zordak Reader
9/10/18 10:11 a.m.

Ok, burned a 19lb/hr chip, removed the fuel pressure gauge adapter and pop riveted an extension on the memcal cover for the ECU and stuck it bak in place. Then I took it out for a long test drive(basically drive all the way around town on the bypasses). Noticed the trans not shifting out of 2nd at low speeds and not out of 3rd at 55mph. Half way around I got on the freeway and up to 70 and it finally shifted in to 4th and the torque converter locked up. It did this last time I took it out and was hoping it was just a little sticky from sitting most of a year(yeah it has been that long). I finally remembered that I had a 73 Pontiac wagon that developed a cooling line leak on a trip and when it cooled off the trans would not work until I filled it back up. Also remembering I changed the fluid on the 'bird I finally checked the trans fluid and sure enough it took about 1-1/2 quarts(yes quarts not pints)to get it to read full hot. I will take it out tonight and run it some more and maybe I can get ont it to see how well it is running. It is not blowing any smoke ao I feel the rings are seated well enough and the oil still looks new so no much blow by.  

zordak
zordak Reader
9/11/18 9:34 a.m.

Took a second ride. Same problems. won't shift into 4th until over 65, slips bad shifting from 2nd to 3rd if I get on it a little. Although if I baby it it seems to shift ok. I am feeling the TV cable came off in the trans as I have done the set it routine a couple of times. I am also going to hook up the computer to make sure the ECU is seeing the same speeds as the speedometer to make sure it is sending the correct signals to the trans.

zordak
zordak Reader
9/12/18 9:30 a.m.

Forgot to mention, I stopped at the store during the ride, and it was dark when I got back out, and the right headlight did the bounce up and down thing so last night I removed the motor and did my make it work thing so now I have 2 headlights that move up and down without the annoying gear stripping noise.

zordak
zordak Reader
9/17/18 12:13 p.m.

Found some time this weekend and got it up on jack stands. Adjusted the shift cable. Then I took a look at the TV cable. Sure enough it looked to be hooked up and functioning properly. I will do a double check with someones help to make sure the TV cable is working and does not have some strange break in it, and just seems like it is working. Then lower it back down check fluids and yet another test drive. If symptoms do not lessen or go away I am going to need a tranny rebuild. Never having done a automatic or seen one in person that worked when done I am really gun shy about tackling one on my own, so I will be sourcing a rebuilt from somewhere. 

AngryCorvair
AngryCorvair MegaDork
9/17/18 12:14 p.m.

In reply to zordak :

It's already berkeleyed and getting replaced, so what's the harm in trying to unberkeley it yourself?

zordak
zordak Reader
9/18/18 9:33 a.m.

At the moment I am dealing with a real case of "It just seems I can't do anything right". I will have to think on it. Maybe.

GCrites80s
GCrites80s Reader
9/18/18 10:24 a.m.

Tuning these cars can suck out your will to live. Sometimes you need a breakthrough to keep going.

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