RichardSIA
RichardSIA Reader
6/18/20 12:18 a.m.

Hoping there may be a Buick V6 expert or two here?

Trying to hop-up an old Buick 225 V6 without spending silly money, custom cam & lifters are already over $400.00.

Originally this was just going to be a quick rings & bearings, like that EVER works out.

Got it apart and decided that the crank will need to be ground, the cam is not good enough, the "Ported" 225 heads are unlikely to flow enough........

Yep, mission creep is getting to me pretty badly.

I have John Thawley's Buick Free Spirit Power Manual but it's from 1980 and pretty much out of date as virtually no referenced part numbers are still available.

He refers to all pre-79 heads as boat anchors, implying that the '79 up heads will work on earlier blocks, but then mentions that  "..problems are encountered in effecting a head gasket seal due to enlargement of some water passages".

These were very popular engines to build years ago, went into everything imaginable.

The '79 up heads flow a LOT more than the earlier version. I've confirmed that they do bolt up.

Next I will compare head gaskets, I've already noticed some holes in early heads that are not there in late, for oil?

And for the nay-sayers, sure, a later engine would be "Easier" to do, if you discount all the ECU, VVT, CAT, Sensors, etc. complexity.

This is to be a budget 60's period correct build as much as possible, a head upgrade will not be apparent to casual observation.

So, anyone know HOW to adapt the later heads, or the definitive reason WHY it cannot be done?

I do have intakes for both types of heads.

RichardSIA
RichardSIA Reader
6/19/20 1:35 a.m.

OK, I think this is settled.

YES, the later tall-port heads may be used on the 225 lower.

Discussed at length with the engine builder at TA Performance this morning, confirmed my observations.

If the late heads are used then the entire top end has to be 3.8.

This includes the push-rods, intake, rocker assemblies, and valve covers.

The engine will no longer look like a short Buick Nail-Head.

225's oil the rockers through the mounting pedestals and shafts.

231's oil through the push-rods.

So the big trick is to use the correct push-rods and lifters. It is also a good idea to tap and block-off the 225 oil galleries that used to go to the heads.

TA Perf. sell "Hybrid" push-rods for this conversion.

The main reason to use the tall-port heads is that they flow about 30%+ more than the earlier heads. For a low-rev Jeep type build there is probably no real point, for a high HP and RPM build there is.

For my purpose I need the odd-fire lower to remain "Vintage" and for the sound. A little disappointed that I will lose the 225 appearance somewhat, but for my build the cheap added power is worth it. 

Patrick (Forum Supporter)
Patrick (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
6/19/20 7:32 a.m.

Can you machine a valve cover adapter like for using old perimeter bolt sbc covers on newer center bolt heads?

V6Buicks
V6Buicks New Reader
6/19/20 7:53 a.m.

I admit that I don't know much about the 225s.  No to sound naive, but would a 109 block painted green not be correct enough?  I think if you're already swapping to the later heads, the whole package would not appear much different at all.  Plus, you would have the benefits of more displacement, stronger internals, and not needing to make later heads work.  I'm just spitballing.  Either way, I'll be interested to see what you come up with.

V6Buicks
V6Buicks New Reader
6/19/20 7:55 a.m.

Never mind.  I just saw your other thread, and found that you know way more about this than I!  Carry on. lol

RichardSIA
RichardSIA Reader
6/19/20 12:00 p.m.
Patrick (Forum Supporter) said:

Can you machine a valve cover adapter like for using old perimeter bolt sbc covers on newer center bolt heads?

I've considered doing that. Does add another source of possible leaks and a lot of work, but still under consideration.

Indy "Nub" Guy
Indy "Nub" Guy PowerDork
6/19/20 12:08 p.m.

In reply to RichardSIA :

I've got a full set of used roller rockers for a 231 if you're interested.  I ended up not using them for my TR7 build years ago......

 

RichardSIA
RichardSIA Reader
6/19/20 12:56 p.m.

Yes!

Price?

Indy "Nub" Guy
Indy "Nub" Guy PowerDork
6/19/20 12:59 p.m.

In reply to RichardSIA :

Let me dig them out and Post some pics, they've been on the shelf for over 15 years.....

Indy "Nub" Guy
Indy "Nub" Guy PowerDork
6/19/20 1:47 p.m.

Well a berkeleying mouse made a nest in the box.

Got them all laid out and here's what I got:

Kenne Bell brand rockers and Lunati Cams push rods.

 

Two of the rollers got rusty thanks to the mouse.

The extra rockers have good rollers:

 

How's $50 sound?

RichardSIA
RichardSIA Reader
6/19/20 9:09 p.m.

Sold!

How do I pay you?

Indy "Nub" Guy
Indy "Nub" Guy PowerDork
6/19/20 10:08 p.m.

In reply to RichardSIA :

Shoot me a PM with your address and we'll figure it out

RichardSIA
RichardSIA Reader
7/3/20 12:16 a.m.

I may be getting a little carried away now, just bought bee-hive valve springs.

Not sure what this little engine will do HP wise but it should be significantly more than it's last incarnation and that was pretty good. In the planned <1500 Lb. car I expect it to be plenty.

Oh, and displacement will be 230.14337028068866 Cu. In.

Indy "Nub" Guy
Indy "Nub" Guy PowerDork
7/3/20 6:09 a.m.

In reply to RichardSIA :

Your package should arrive today wink

RichardSIA
RichardSIA Reader
7/6/20 4:38 p.m.

Arrived today.

M.O. on the way.

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