eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
9/20/21 7:54 a.m.

In reply to Cousin_Eddie (Forum Supporter) :

I remember seeing your truck in the GMT400 thread.  It looks great!  I really like the earlier front grill/light style on them better, too.  Even this deep in, I think if a good deal came up on an solid RCSB roller (preferably stepside), I'd jump on it, and pull the engine/trans out of the S10 for it.  I'd rather have an S10, as I like the idea of a small 3000 lb pickup that has some utility, but also hauls ass, but the fullsize would be a lot easier to put together.  I wish you luck if you do ever get a hold of an S10, they are about the perfect size for a daily driver with occasional use as a truck.

I think there are a few factors in my problems, as it seems like I've had the most problematic LS swap I've seen in an S10 (or I'm just a drama queen smiley ).  I strongly suspect my truck just happens to have too many tolerances stacked in the wrong direction.  With how tight everything fits, fractions of an inch count.  Maybe related to that is my header selection, they force the engine far back, which required more hacking up of the heater box and made the shifter linkage bump against the head.  That wasn't the only reason I switched to a floor shifter, but was part of it.  Finally, I went with a 4L80E.  Would've been no problem in a GMT400, but the S10 would have been a lot happier with a 700R4 or 4L60E.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
9/21/21 9:03 p.m.

wae stopped by and I showed him my brilliant wiring plan,  we hashed out a few things, and came up with a short list of stuff we'll need to get it all together.  We also tried to re-check some of the wiring that failed my continuity testing earlier, and they still failed.  He traced some of the wiring, and we came up with a backup plan for the TCC switch, and were about to give up on the starter solenoid wiring when we had the brilliant plan to hook a battery up.  The correct wires at the bulkhead got power when they should, and didn't have it when they shouldn't, sop there must be a little magic going on under the dashboard that the wiring diagrams are not showing.  I'm happy we don't have to hack up too much more wiring.  Forgot the check the MIL control, but I will hook the battery up again sometime soon, because I think one of my evening projects this week is going to be to fix the speaker wiring, and temporarily hook up the new radio to test it.

The only big thing to figure out is the wiring on the passenger side connector and how to integrate it with the underdash wiring.  That'll cover the VSS signal, OBD2 wiring, tach signal (I need to install a tach), my aftermarket gauges, and auxiliary light controls for now.  Possibly also a neutral safety switch, but I think the ECU reads that off a sensor at the transmission.  There are plenty more connections, and I may run some power wires in for future expansion.

I also realized after wae left that I should not have cut the two red wires at the firewall.  They can be re-soldered, and their terminals can be hooked to the alternator.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
9/23/21 8:57 a.m.

Been reading up on hydroboost rebuilds and the tools needed for a full rebuild.  I still need to do a bit more research, but there is a chance I'll just replace a few of the more critical seals and see what happens.  The specialty tools for the full rebuild are pretty pricey(like I could buy a rebuilt hydroboost for less).  A c-clamp can be substituted for one of them, and another looks like I could fab up a replacement fairly easily, but the other two maybe not. 

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
9/24/21 10:52 a.m.

 Minor setback this morning.  Crimped in the proper terminals for the driver side speaker, and went to hook up the speaker.  Hand slipped a bit and even though I barely touched it, the cone disintegrated.  Guess the speaker was in worse shape than I thought.  I'll get some cheap 4x6 speakers, or I'll see about grabbing some 4x10s for the back.  Just need a pair of speakers to be able to hear my music.  Not an audiophile, so they don't need to be great.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
9/24/21 2:48 p.m.

A little bit more progress.  A combination of new and old hoses, and the upper radiator hose is figured out:

Going to need to mess with the steam vent hose routing a bit, but that should not be a problem.  Worst case, it is just some 1/4" coolant tubing and I can start with some new stuff. The fit is tight enough that I have ordered a metal 90 degree intake elbow to try to save about 3/16" of space to keep the intake and radiator hose from rubbing.

Drilled one of the holes for the driver's seat today, and marked the other one.  Looks like some shimming will be necessary to get the seat mounts to be relatively level.  Was hoping for an easier fit, but wasn't really expecting it.  The hole I need to drill is also near the back of the transmission, so a baggy needs to be tossed over it to keep any metal fragments from getting inside.

Another round of parts should be here sometime on Sunday, but until then, I'm going to plug away on whatever I can.  Will also try to figure out the in cabin and passenger bulkhead wiring.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
9/25/21 10:15 p.m.

Messed around with the wiring, and I can say the Deutsch style connectors are really nice to crimp and assemble.  They almost make wiring fun...almost.

After I took this picture, I added 3 more wires, a ground, a battery 12V, and an ignition 12V.  I'll make sure the battery and ignition wires are fused somewhere in the engine compartment.  Tomorrow, I'm going to go back over everything and make sure I did not miss anything that needs to be added, and I might add another ground wire for good measure.  I figure the battery 12V will be good for the extra cigarette lighter, and maybe I'll add a USB charger while I'm in there.   It can also be used for power to the switch for the auxiliary lights, and may be needed for the OBD2 connector .  I did make sure to run wires for both extra switches, even though I currently only have plans for one.  The ignition wire will be convenient for powering gauges without having to tap into an existing wire.  They had been using the stereo wiring, but now that'll be used by the actual stereo.

I'll be trying to do more on this tomorrow, it'd be nice to have the interior wiring completely done, so the seats and console and shifter can be permanently mounted.  I still need to figure out where to tap into the wiring for the reverse lights for the shifter, see if I need to have the park/neutral wiring (I may just run some wires under the carpet from the shifter just in case), and also maybe figure out where the fuel pump kill switch will go, and drill a hole in the floorpan to be ready to run the wires for that.

All the actual wire came from the body harness from the fireturd.  Hoarding pays off again, I guess.  Once this thing is up and running, though, I may have to give up and recycle whatever is left, to get some space back.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
9/27/21 8:35 a.m.

Installed the bulkhead connector and ran most of wires behind the dash to roughly where they will need to be.  I did hook up the auxiliary wires to the switches(They'll still need a power source), and the VSS signal wire to the input.  I need to move on to figuring out how the fusebox and the PCM casing will be mounted to the fender liner.  Once that is in place, the underhood wring can be done.  I am running low on sheetmetal in the garage, but I have a plan, and grabbed some raw material from the storage locker last night.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
9/28/21 12:26 p.m.

Had an idea to make a much more stable mount for the fusebox.  Will see if I can figure it out and implement it this evening.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
9/30/21 7:18 p.m.

Still been having issues figuring out how to mount the fusebox, although I think I finally have a workable idea.  Between frustrations from that and work, decided to switch gears.  Installed the new speakers - it turns out the passenger speaker was already destroyed, so I would have needed them anyway.  Hooked up the stereo to test it, connected the battery, switched ignition to on, then...nothing. 

Hoping I didn't screw up the radio, I disconnected it, checked the fuse on it and at the fusebox, both were good.  Deciphered the power lines for the stereo, and grabbed the multimeter.  About 12.5V coming from battery power with the key off.  But, when I switch to key on, it drops to between 8-9V.   I am hoping the battery just needs a charge.  It's on the float charger now, so tomorrow, I'll check again.  And try to get back to fusebox mounting, since its location is the last major thing that needs to be set before wires can be run.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
10/1/21 7:50 a.m.

Doing the same thing after the battery is charged.  I guess I'll start pulling fuses and see if I can isolate it.

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
10/1/21 7:51 a.m.

What radio are you using?

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
10/1/21 8:01 a.m.

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :

I picked up a Pioneer MVH-S322BT.  Was the cheapest name brand stereo I could find in stock.  I pulled it out to test the voltage, though, since the radio harness has BAT+, IGN+, and GND, so it was an easy place to check.

 

EDIT:  Just in case it was isolated to the radio circuit, I just ran out to the garage and checked the cigarette lighter.  Same outcome, over 12V with key off, and 8-9 with key on.  Also possibly relevant - the charging system is not hooked up at all.  I have tried to make sure all the loose wires in the bulkhead are not touching ground, to keep them from shorting out.

wae
wae UberDork
10/1/21 8:21 a.m.

So, stupid question......  but do you have a different battery you can try?  I know that if I see a battery drop down to 8v in this kind of weather while cranking the starter I'm looking at a battery that has failed a load test.  One wouldn't think that the truck would be putting that kind of demand on the battery in its current state, though.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
10/1/21 8:37 a.m.

I do - I'll throw it on the charger and hopefully it'll be good to go by the end of the work day.

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
10/1/21 8:50 a.m.

If you haven't used the stereo before now try holding the power button for a while after you turn the key on. I know with the Kenworth who use similar hardware and software that if they are disconnected for a while but that trick works to bring them back to life

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
10/1/21 9:07 a.m.

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :

Thanks, I'll give that a shot next time I test it.  I should probably read the manual, too.  I only looked at the install section, not the usage instructions.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
10/1/21 7:16 p.m.

The other battery was not fully charged, but I got the same result out of it.  I can check again tomorrow after some more time on the charger, but I suspect it is in the truck's electrical system.  The buffalo chicken pizza I had for dinner is telling me that crawling under the dash to pull fuses is not a wise idea right now, so that can also wait until tomorrow.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
10/2/21 12:20 p.m.

Started pulling fuses, and I am more confused.  I pulled the Horn/DM fuse (no idea what DM means), and suddenly, I am getting no voltage with the key off and -3.7V to -3.9V with it on.  So, that value, combined with the 8.x, tends to be around 12.5V.  I am lost.  Also, the coil wire is getting a full 12V when the ignition is turned on, so it seems like whatever the problem is, it is in the cab wiring.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
10/2/21 12:40 p.m.

Pulled the IGN/GAU fuse, and suddenly, getting a lot more voltage.  The radio powered up long enough for me to go through some of its settings menus, then shut down.  It would seem to power up every few seconds, then immediately back down, like it is getting just enough power to start up, then not having enough power to stay on or something.  Switched out batteries just in case, but got the same result.

There is presumably a draw in the gauge cluster, but there may be a problem with my splicing for the radio.  It could also be my crappy (non-crimped/non-soldered) temporary battery wiring, too.  I'd have thought that would have affected voltage in the engine compartment, though.

 

EDIT:  I am also wondering if this is a pre-existing issue that was covered up by not having a radio, and by the alternator covering the problem while the engine was running. 

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
10/2/21 6:43 p.m.

Switching over to the fuse box mounting was a good idea.  Much easier than trying to figure out the voltage drop issue.  I started with the truck  fuse box bracket I pulled from the junkyard, took some measurements and hacked it up.  I bolted two of the mounting brackets from the fusebox kit to the bracket, and took some measurements.  For the other two mounting holes, I used some long 1/4" bolts, and some washers and nuts to make a couple of standoffs to try to keep the fusebox somewhat level and give plenty of room to run the wiring up into through the bottom of the fusebox.  I took some L-channel with holes, and made a couple of brackets to bolt it to the inner fender.  Once the fender is back on the truck, I should be able to add a third support point to it, so it'll be less likely to shake loose or break.  I also cut away parts of the bracket that would be get in the way of the ABS computer and the washer fluid reservoir. Once everything is permanently in place, copious amount of loctite will be used.

One reason for using the original fuse bracket is for ease of wire routing.  It'll make securing the engine harness simpler since I can reuse some of the original routes the wire took, and some of the clips that held the harness in place in the Sierra.

Since the two brackets from the fusebox are isolated I may run a 12V+ wire to one of them, and use it like the distribution block in the old S10 harness.  I still need to decide on a good place to run ground wires.  Might as well make them all run to a single point if at all possible.

After figuring that out, I took some time to mess with the driver's seat again.  I cut the carpet for the final bolt hole (inner front) and as I had worried, it was on a curve.  Tried to readjust the seat brackets, but anything that put it on a level point made the seat list strongly to port.  I am guessing that S10s with factory buckets may have had a small bracket welded in place to hold the seat mounting stud vertically.  I may see about trying to shim it a bit, but the plan for now is to just drill a slightly oversized hole, and see how well I can get it all to bolt in place.  

Hoping to make some more progress tomorrow.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
10/3/21 2:49 p.m.

Quick thought on the voltage issue in the dash wiring.  If there was a big draw, wouldn't I just see reduced voltage?  The fact that I am seeing reversed polarity at times is really weird.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
10/7/21 9:02 p.m.

Had a little time tonight, so tracked down wires for the underhood side of the passenger bulkhead connector, crimped them, and assembled it.  There were only 5 weatherproof plugs for empty terminals, so i need to seal up the remaining unused ones.  I suspect a few dabs of RTV should do the trick, and should be removable in the future if I need to add wires.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
10/13/21 7:45 a.m.

Been doing a little bit at a time over the last week, but last night, wae stopped by to work on some of the wiring.  He got most of the fuse wiring done, and started on the relay work.

I stuck to the other side of the engine compartment, and got the passenger side wiring wrapped up, started routing it, and put some heat shielding on where it will pass close to the exhaust.

Also ran the starter wire, which was keeping a lot of other work from being completed.  I need to get under the car and deal with the transmission cooler lines, then I can install the header, which will allow me to figure out what I need for the exhaust, and start running the intake piping.

It feels nice having some visible progress.  I am looking for a small auxiliary fusebox for larger fuses to provide power to some of the relays.  I have a couple of 40 amp fuses, but the packaging is not really good for the space I have.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
10/15/21 12:16 p.m.

Finally got around to ordering a driveshaft.  Looks like there could be a five week wait for it.  I'll set that as my goal to have everything else done that is needed to make the truck run/move, so maybe it can at least go up and down the driveway before winter hits.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
10/18/21 11:22 a.m.

After looking around (and reading reviews), it appears that "cheap", "good", and "high-amperage fuse block" together do not exist.  The scariest I think I read was reviews on Amazon for 40 amp fuse holders that had wire that was of sufficient size, but the actual fuse holder terminals failed due to being undersized.

In an attempt to not spend money, I pulled out the fuse box I snagged from the junkyard a ways back.  (Picture below is from after I split it)

Maybe I could just use the part of it that I want.

Worth a try.  I unbolted the leads, then found out the fuse box was actually held together with the hardware that was used to plug the connectors on the bottom.  Tried hammering them out, but the shape bells out a bit.

No pictures of this, but the next step was to drill the ends of them a bit, then they were small enough to be hammered out of place.  Here's the separated fusebox:

While I didn't need it, I was curious to see what was under the plate with all the fuse terminals.  Turns out a lot of tiny copper wires:

For the next part, I put the fuse block in the vise, and fired up the sawzall.

Now that I had the pieces I really need, time to look at them a bit more closely.

The bus bar was pretty easy to pry loose, and then the terminal blades also came out fairly easily.

Next up, it was time to hack off everything not needed.  A hacksaw did fine for the plastic.  I drilled a hole in the bus bar, so it could be fit where it needs to go, and another hole in the plastic for mounting.  Then, a dremel with a cutoff wheel made short work of shortening the bus bar.

All together:

Not sure if this is brilliant, or incredibly stupid.   I still need to come up with a cover for it, but that's a low priority for now.  I'll wrap some heat shrink or electrical tape around the one loose terminal, to keep it safe.

 

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