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Agent98
Agent98 Reader
3/16/18 4:02 a.m.

Agree with WV, might as well have a look...has to come out anyway. With any luck you just have a broken apex seal, worse you need a rotor too, even worse you need a new housing.

looks like $200 for scenario 1, add $150 for scenario 2, and get another engine for scenario three....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Mazda-rotary-engine-internals-12A-13B-20B-RX7-1st-2nd-3rd-gen-NEW/273111373881?hash=item3f96b4d839:g:VNUAAOSwpcBaqmsf&vxp=mtr

edizzle89
edizzle89 Dork
3/16/18 7:51 a.m.

isn't there soaking method with ATF people use for rotaries that have sat for a while with stuck apex seals? would probably be worth a shot before tearing it all down.

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr UltraDork
3/16/18 10:59 a.m.

In reply to edizzle89 :

Excellent post.

 

Take off exhaust manifold, probably intake too if you really wanna get in there.

 

Look at apex seals with a camera or mirror through the exhaust port on passenger side of engine.  See if the seals are intact and have a little spring to them.  If they are present, but not springy, do the atf soak.  

If broken, start pulling the engine...

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr UltraDork
3/16/18 11:01 a.m.

P.s. I have a known good 12a that came out of a racecar for a swap.

 

Probably more than you want to spend  especially on shipping, but it is an option....

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr UltraDork
3/16/18 11:02 a.m.

I also have the parts you would need to swap a 2nd gen 13b in that car too...

barefootskater
barefootskater Reader
3/16/18 11:07 a.m.

This thread has me drooling over the 82 rx7 in the classifieds for $400. It's only 3 hours away... Man, if I had the room..

GIRTHQUAKE
GIRTHQUAKE New Reader
3/16/18 3:09 p.m.

This is a good thread!

I'll add a couple of cents- for your wiring troubles, I would ask around on RX7 boards to see if anyone has a complete wiring harness for your year and trim level, so you have a "Nuke from orbit" option just in case with the wiring. It shouldn't cost you TOO much to nab.

I agree that rebuilding your rotary is likely the best option, mostly due to the total cost of fitting a new engine into a car it wasn't meant for (in the case of a piston motor). Check Rockauto for kits but stick to OEM Mazda rotary seals unless plenty of rotary enthusiasts have an aftermarket one they trust.

BTW since nobody else has asked- what kind of tools and work space do you have access to?

Crackers
Crackers Dork
3/16/18 4:04 p.m.
Schizamm said:

(I know blasphemy right? And not even the cool kind like Blasp-Hemi)

Around here swapping rotary's into other cars is the cool swap, so yeah, that's kind of going the other way.

I'm not sure I'm ready to try refreshing a rotary myself. I keep watching videos and talking myself out of it. Granted, it would probably be different if I actually had one in hand vs looking at broken ones on CL. You're already on the other side of that bridge. LOL

So you'll certainly have my respect if you pull it off!

bbaker480
bbaker480 New Reader
3/16/18 5:15 p.m.
wvumtnbkr said:

I also have the parts you would need to swap a 2nd gen 13b in that car too...

Some of those parts are literally brand new with the Mazda part number stickers still on them.  

Hungary Bill
Hungary Bill UberDork
3/18/18 3:26 a.m.

Getting caught up from the weekends posts, and loving the progress!!!  Congrats on turning her over man! 

I saw a group on the book of faces called "SLC Rotary", or something to that effect, maybe they can help source cheap parts?  Otherwise I only saw one post on craigslist asking $200 for a set of 13b irons and rotors. 

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
3/18/18 6:13 a.m.

I was avoiding this thread because I still have severe mental trauma from my RX7. 

I love that you got it to start. Great job. For future reference, a carbed 12a only requires three wires to run aside from grounds. You need a switched wire to the ignition. The bundle of coils and such on the drivers side fender can all be fed with the same hot wire. The alternator needs one hot wire to energize it. The small starter wire needs to be hooked to a switch to engage the starter. You need the grounds in place and the big hot wire from the the battery to the starter, but you can run and drive the car with two wires through the firewall. One to turn the ingnition/alternator on, and a push button to bump the starter. Take a look at all of the wiring inside the car. Now ignore it until you sort out what you need to do to make the car affordably run. 

Unfortunately (or fortunately for my sanity) I sent all of my RX7 stuff including the manuals and wiring diagrams to the new owner. Unfortunately I can't get some of the information out of my head no matter how much I try which is why I forget things like my kids birthdays. 

Schizamm
Schizamm New Reader
3/20/18 2:58 a.m.

Small update! My brother came down and we are working on tearing down the engine bay to pull the engine. We spent some time pulling the intake and exhaust manifolds, and it was pretty obvious the front rotor had essentially no apex seals left. Again, I am anything but an expert, but comparing what we could see to the rear rotor, they are pretty messed up. We have aspirations to finish pulling the engine this weekend, so I'll see what I can do to get it broken down and diagnosed! Thanks again all for your help!

Schizamm
Schizamm New Reader
3/20/18 3:00 a.m.

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

Hey Mazduece! Huge fan of your builds, I was sad to hear the R63 and V wagon were both going, but can completely sympathize with the reasoning. Even have your ttwo sticker on my DD:) Do I dare ask what made your RX7 so traumatizing?

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr UltraDork
3/20/18 7:27 a.m.

When you pull the engine, pull the trans with it.  It will be way easier to put everything g back In later.

fidelity101
fidelity101 UltraDork
3/20/18 8:16 a.m.
wvumtnbkr said:

When you pull the engine, pull the trans with it.  It will be way easier to put everything g back In later.

ehh, its not that hard - I stopped doing that a while back but I also have a lift in my garage.

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
3/20/18 2:20 p.m.
Schizamm said:

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

Hey Mazduece! Huge fan of your builds, I was sad to hear the R63 and V wagon were both going, but can completely sympathize with the reasoning. Even have your ttwo sticker on my DD:) Do I dare ask what made your RX7 so traumatizing?

I'm glad you've enjoyed reading about my misadventures. It's been fun. I do have a thread about the RX7 floating around here somewhere. I've tried to forget the title. 

My RX7 always started. ALWAYS. It never ran very well. It was never fast, but not matter what I did, it started. That was it's main problem. If the motor had blown up I think I would have swapped it. If I could have gotten it to run well, I think I would have liked it more, but the stupid car just soldiered on in a state of perpetual mediocrity. It was like that friend that you've had since you were a kid who is sort of bad news that drinks just a little too much and says something offensive right when you're trying to meet a girl. Who is always just barely not late enough that you leave him behind. Who always has your back but is the one that causes the problems in the first place. Someone you'll hang out with but will never recommend for a job where you work because you know people will judge you by him. By the numbers he's a good friend, but the truth is that he continually makes your life just a bit harder than it has to be. That was my RX7. And just like that friend I couldn't ditch it. I couldn't sell it. I finally had to give it away to another friend who used in for his first track weekend and then as far as I know gave up on cars altogether and bought a jeep. Even he didn't sell it and the last I heard every time he wanders out to the back yard the stupid thing starts. Every time. 

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr UltraDork
3/20/18 4:07 p.m.

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

Did you see furious Es thread?  

 

That was my car.  I sold it to him due to the same E36 M3.

 

It is now A monster with an el ess jaun.... 

Schizamm
Schizamm New Reader
9/11/18 8:17 p.m.

Ok ladies and gents, I'm back! With no good updates or any good progress. I have no good excuses, so I'll just get straight to the questions.

 

To answer Girthquakes question I just saw, (what tools equipment do I have access too) pretty much nothing. The apartment I'm in gives me access to a small one car garage where the 7 is located, and I have a small set of ratchets and sockets from a crescent kit I found on the side of the freeway in high school. Enough to do simple stuff like brakes, spark plugs, oil change, that sort of thing but I feel a little out of my range pulling an engine. Also have a floor jack and two stands. That's it.

 

Went out to poke around the car today, and want to finish up pulling the engine, so I can diagnose how bad it is. As stated previously my brother and I tore down most of the bay. Hard part is, I don't have an engine hoist to pull it with, and really only have a crappy acdelco floor jack that works 80% of the time. Is it realistic to try dropping the engine tranny combo out the bottom? Maybe get it unbolted then put the jack under it and lower it down, jack up the car and pull it out from underneath? Is my only real option rent/borrow/steal a hoist? Grab a couple of brothers with young backs and just deadlift the thing outta there? Clueless. And should I make sure to pull the transmission as well? As far as I can tell that's working, can cycle all the gears, so if it's easier, probably just leave it in yah?

 

Anyway, really want to get working on it again, just not sure where to start. My first goal is get the engine out and turn down so I know what I'm working with. But thanks for checking in, hopefully I can make some progress this week/weekend and have something to show you all!

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr UltraDork
9/11/18 8:36 p.m.

I use an engine hoist.  See of you can borrow one from somebody.  You may even be able to rent one locally.

 

To pull it out the bottom, I believe you will need to remove the front subframe.  That would require removing all 8 bolts that hold the top of the struts in, the large bolts from subframe to chassis, the trans crossmember bolts (don't forget to take off shifter), all the wiring, fuel lines, brake lines, steering components, etc...  

 

It's possible.  I've never seen it done with an rx7, but I don't see why you couldnt.

Schizamm
Schizamm New Reader
9/11/18 9:09 p.m.

In reply to wvumtnbkr :

Thanks for the advice! I'll have to start looking around to see about rentals or borrowing. You mentioned earlier you recommend pulling the tranny as well when doing the engine. Could you help me understand why that's a good idea? Is it easier? Makes reassembly easier? As far as I know the transmission seems fine, so if it's easier i was planning to leave it in.

Thanks again!

Stampie
Stampie UberDork
9/11/18 9:26 p.m.

It'll be easier to line them back up outside the car than in. At least in most cars. 

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr UltraDork
9/12/18 6:07 a.m.

Exactly.  

The bolts between the engine and trans are also easier to get to when on the ground as opposed to in the  car.

 

You do need to remove 2 bolts for clutch slave cylinder, 2 bolts for trans cross member, 3 bolts for shifter, some trans wiring, driveshaft, and possibly exhaust.

 

Sounds like a lot when I type it out!  It's your choice whether you take them out together or not.

TED_fiestaHP
TED_fiestaHP Reader
9/12/18 6:30 a.m.

   A good floor jack and engine hoist are not that expensive, harbor freight.  See if you can split the cost with a friend, at least on the engine hoist, use it once and if you never see it again, it only cost half as much.   There is another story here about a guy swapping engines on a RX8, and he took some pictures of how he took the engine out.   He won't have any help with the engine repair, since his car came with 2 and the extra seems to be good.

TED_fiestaHP
TED_fiestaHP Reader
9/12/18 6:43 a.m.

  Did you fully sort out the starter?   Might be to late to ask, is there a starter interlock switch on the clutch pedal?   Most cars you have to push the clutch pedal down to allow the starter to work, so if you don't push the clutch pedal down, easy to forget with the car up on jack stands.  You forget, since it is out of gear or the rear is up anyhow, but then it won't work. Or if that switch isn't working....   After I replaced the heater core in the Thunderbird turbo coupe the starter wouldn't work, the two wires on the clutch switch got pulled off.    That was a long time ago.

       Also where are you located, most engine hoists are not used 98% of the time, so maybe ask around....??

 

Schizamm
Schizamm New Reader
9/12/18 12:49 p.m.

In reply to wvumtnbkr :

Ah I see that makes sense! Yeah and I'm not a fan of laying on the ground trying to line back up bolts when I could do it outside the car.

In reply to TED_fiestaHP :

I'm on basically I have no money to throw at this build budget, so borrowing or cheap rental is what I'll be looking at. Luckily my brother has a lot more friends and contacts with tools so it looks like he is going to be able to line one up for me to borrow! But I did consider Haebor Freight.

I figured out the starter as well! Turned out it was fine, it was the ignition that was the issue. It had a broken tab so when you turn the key, it wouldn't actually engage anything. Pulled that open and will just use a screwdriver for now. Thanks for the tips!

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