1 2
engiekev
engiekev Reader
2/7/20 8:27 a.m.

For suspension, I'll be going with Evo 8 MR Bilstein struts. They are far more sturdy than any DSM aftermarket shock aside from rally coilovers, inverted strut and large diameter.  The trick to running these is to weld on the rear bushing from a 1G rear strut, or buy an adapter, and in the front use a spacer plate and camber bolts.  The stock Evo 8 springs are about the right height for the rear, but a bit high in the front.  Most people usually cut a coil on the front, or buy front lowering springs.  We're going to take it to 11 and build a custom coilover setup along with positive caster camber plates, 2.5" springs, using NASCAR and Fox Body sleeves.  More to come.

I do have some older style 1G Koni inserts with coilover sleeves and RRE camber plates (with neutral caster).  These are gonna go, if anyone wants em let me know! Brand new Koni inserts, powdercoated body, hypercoil springs front and rear.

AnthonyGS
AnthonyGS Dork
2/7/20 7:37 p.m.

In reply to engiekev :

How much for those fronts for a challenge car?  Shipped to Dallas, TX......  

engiekev
engiekev Reader
2/7/20 9:39 p.m.
AnthonyGS said:

In reply to engiekev :

How much for those fronts for a challenge car?  Shipped to Dallas, TX......  

I'll message you, I have rears as well with the sleeves and springs. 

engiekev
engiekev Reader
2/10/20 3:16 p.m.
AnthonyGS said:

In reply to engiekev :

How much for those fronts for a challenge car?  Shipped to Dallas, TX......  

I also have some more budget oriented used Konis and H&R springs, along with a ton of other cheap speed stuff for a Challenge car. Send me an email!

Rallycross was this last weekend, took the daily driver Fiesta ST out for a spin. Pretty fun, but seeing a few 1G DSMs on course really got me itching to get this project moving!  The next day I had the spare engine all set for a buyer, but was thwarted by a snow storm, those funds will go towards a limited slip Quaife front differential and double synchro 1st gear upgrade to be performed this coming weekend.  

Perahps I'll tackle the drivetrain next update, and detail what needs to be done on the front:

  1. Balance the rebuilt driveshaft at a driveshaft shop
  2. Install the rear differential
  3. Install the driveshaft
  4. Repack CV joints and replace CV clamps
  5. Install solid metal shift bushings on trans connection
engiekev
engiekev Reader
2/10/20 3:19 p.m.

Pics from the event:

engiekev
engiekev Reader
2/12/20 1:42 p.m.

Got the Sparco seats mocked up in the interior, looking pretty good! I think the cloth matches well enough, so I'll stick with that look for now.

Making progress on the suspension design, though I'm starting to think that keeping the stock Evo top hats is the cheapest and most durable solution.  Going to a camber plate really doesn't offer much needed adjustability; camber can be adjusted enough with the lower strut mount bolts, and additional positive caster may not be noticeable at all on a rallyx course. I believe I will still make some camber plates and Ryan is helping by 3D printing some parts for mock up.  Looking forward to seeing the parts go from idea, to CAD, to 3D Print, to CNC!

engiekev
engiekev Reader
2/12/20 2:55 p.m.

In related news, there is a new MI ORV park opening about 5min from my home.  I'm planning on getting some ORV stickers for the DSM and getting in some test days, it will be quite funny rolling up with all the mall crawler Jeeps and doing a 5000RPM anti lag launch.

Boost_Crazy
Boost_Crazy HalfDork
2/12/20 5:51 p.m.

In reply to engiekev :

Nice build! Makes me really miss my old ‘90 Talon. It was a terrific rallycross car. My only real want for the car back then was quicker steering. I was hard to keep up going from lock to lock on tight courses. Any plans to address that on your build? 

engiekev
engiekev Reader
2/13/20 10:49 a.m.
Boost_Crazy said:

In reply to engiekev :

Nice build! Makes me really miss my old ‘90 Talon. It was a terrific rallycross car. My only real want for the car back then was quicker steering. I was hard to keep up going from lock to lock on tight courses. Any plans to address that on your build? 

You bring up a good point, I have thought about that quite a bit! I do have a smaller Grant wheel, but that will only make it feel quicker and not really change the ratio.

Ive thought about steering quickeners, but using that on a street car removes the collapsable steering column and I find that terrifying.

I'm working with a friend to fit an Evo 8 rack ont the 1G subframe, or fabricate a new subframe to fit the Evo 8 rack.  That is the best solution I think.  The splines are the same, and dimensionally they are close.  Rack mounts and then lines are the challenge. It has been done before.

For now, I just need to get the car running and plan to tackle that in the future if it turns out to be a substantial negative to driving the car.  I'm trying really hard not to get sucked into scope creep and end up with an unfinished build.

engiekev
engiekev Reader
2/19/20 10:44 a.m.

Test fit of center caps proved there need to be some design changes, but a good start! 

Ryan is helping to print some more test pieces, hopefully the next run is final and we can print all sets.

JAGwinn
JAGwinn New Reader
2/19/20 4:12 p.m.

I remember when your car was built. I was on the line, Group 16, Left Side Body...I put in the airbags and the left side rear speaker.

karplus2
karplus2 New Reader
2/19/20 10:53 p.m.
JAGwinn said:

I remember when your car was built. I was on the line, Group 16, Left Side Body...I put in the airbags and the left side rear speaker.

Not to thread jack but I really wish I saw more DSMs driving around Bloomington/Normal. I saw a bunch growing up and had friends that had them in high school but they seem to have dissapeared. I am glad the factory is at least being used for something again.

Loving this build!

engiekev
engiekev Reader
2/20/20 6:24 a.m.

In reply to JAGwinn :

Very cool! Did you work on the 1995+ dsm? 1G 1990-1994 didn't have airbags at the time.  I have a friend who was a plant engineer and worked at DSM as well! He has boards of old bolts and misc fasteners that were just being thrown away.

It's come full circle now, DSM plant was bought by rivian and they are now building electric trucks down the same line!

engiekev
engiekev Reader
2/27/20 3:18 p.m.

Turbo time!

The goal of this build was to minimize spool time with multiple changes to increase airflow and exhaust flow velocity to address this.  The 2G cylinder head I'm going to be using has smaller ports than the 1G cylinder head, which increases velocity on its own, as well as having better port angles.  I wanted to try something different than the usual small 16G, evo III 16G, or other turbo that is usually chosen for a small horsepower DSM build.  

Forced Performance  (http://www.forcedperformance.net/ ) has made available a really oddball turbo for this project.  It's basically a modified version of the factory Mitsubishi TD04HL-13G that was only available in the 1990-1994 DSMs with automatic transmissions only.   I don't want to go into too many details, but it's clear the new billet compressor is much larger (inducer and exducer) than the stock 13G compressor to support much more flow and higher pressure ratios.  As far as I know this is likely one of the only billet 13G turbos for a DSM frame.

The 1G auto DSMs also came with a unique exhaust manifold with smaller runner diameter, and a unique O2 Housing.  The turbine housing is also substantially different than any other DSM turbo, its much smaller in area (5cm vs. 6cm and 7cm area notation), and the inlet is offset.  I plan to use the stock 2G DSM exhaust manifold as it matches up better with the 2G cylinde head exhaust ports, and port the 13G turbine housing so that the inlet lines up with the manifold outlet, and enlarge the turbine inlet throat area as well. 

More to come on this: I plan to port the turbine housing and exhaust manifold and O2 housing, as well as ceramic coat all hot parts.

Photos below show the new turbo compared to a small 16g turbo.  It's crazy how much smaller the CHRA is, and looking at the turbine housing side-on shows the massize volume difference.

engiekev
engiekev Reader
4/8/20 10:32 a.m.

I've been playing around with ideas for livery on this, going to use cheap vinyl. This car is perfect candidate for vinyl, since the paint is not great condition but the panels are straight.

Kind of thinking this HKS Advan livery would look great:

 

So I roughly (really really roughly!) sketched this out in Photoshop over this rad lake bed photo:

 

Thinking to keep this simple and only apply the black vinyl to the car, keeping the roof and spoiler uncovered.  Would also add numbers and maybe some more lettering on the hood.

Thoughts?

Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter)
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/8/20 8:48 p.m.

In reply to engiekev :

I dig the graphics! Not sure how I missed your thread until now, but I'm glad to see all the details. 

engiekev
engiekev Reader
4/9/20 10:25 a.m.
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to engiekev :

I dig the graphics! Not sure how I missed your thread until now, but I'm glad to see all the details. 

Do you have a build thread for your 1G challenge car??

Hopefully more updates to come with some promising suspension revelations.  Working with a Rally friend and we should have a fully adjustable coilover suspension based on Evo 8-9 or Evo X Bilstein struts for very low cost.  The benefit of these struts is they are inverted, readily available used AND new (heck you can get them at autozone!), and requires minimal fab work. With the Evo X rear struts we will gain several inches of travel...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ PowerDork
4/9/20 10:50 a.m.

Would you cut the vinyl into strips, I guess?  To me one of the big advantages of that particular graphics scheme is that it's easy to do with painter's tape, not that I'm biased or anything:

engiekev
engiekev Reader
4/9/20 12:52 p.m.

Ohh that looks like a fun ride!! Still on the stock Ford 2.3L? Would be an awesome candidate for a 2.3L ecoboost swap.

I suppose I could paint it or even dip it, vinly just seemed easier.  No messing about with spraying stuff.

I would have to cut it in strips and lay it out, OR  lay out the vinyl across the whole surface and use the 3M "cutting tape"  prior to lay out the stripes and "cut" the holes afterwards. Something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xUfikwcWA4

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ PowerDork
4/9/20 4:25 p.m.

In reply to engiekev :

Ooh, I like the knifeless tape idea!  Have never used it myself but seems like it would help things go smoothly, vinyl wrapping is a skill I've proven to lack a few times now.

The XR4Ti is still running a lima 2.3T, although it has a bunch of fancy internals- I bought a rusty parts car primarily to get this engine out of it.  The ecoboost is a neat idea but the only one I know of in an XR4Ti in rally use seems to have overheating problems so I'm not sure how robust they are for what I do to this car.

Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter)
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/9/20 6:24 p.m.

In reply to engiekev :

The build thread is here. I'm theoretically off work next week so hopefully I can make a bit of progress. 

engiekev
engiekev Reader
4/20/20 8:06 a.m.

Some small steps in progress this weekend.  

Porting! Ported the tiny tiny 13G turbine housing to open up the inlet to match the stock 2G exhaust manifold gasket. Note the offset inlet, it can be port matched to the center inlet gasket with plenty of material to remove.  The exit was also ported to match the O2 housing gasket.  

Making steps in the Evo 8-9 MR Bilstein conversion, mocking up the front evo struts with DSM top hats.  We will be experimenting with the washers required to cover the width difference between the Evo strut mount and DSM knuckle, as well as the diameter hole difference.  These washers will add positive or negative camber, and positive or negative caster.

 

 

Also installed the new A/C condenser and drier, the AC compressor and evaporator is original.  We'll give it a try with new o-rings and EnviroSafe R12 conversion refrigerant.  A/C is worth it for hot summer days sitting in line with a helmet on!  The black roof and large greenhouse of the DSM also makes it quite hot.

 

The oil cooler was also mounted up, not many pics of that.

engiekev
engiekev Reader
4/23/20 8:40 a.m.

Bilstein Suspension Update!

Having messed about with a new 3D printer for awhile, I decided to print some suspension adapter parts.  

To fit the Evo Bilstein struts, there are a few places that need adapters: front knuckle, and rear lower shock mount.

For the front, the Evo strut knuckle spacing is slightly larger than the DSM knuckle, and the ID of the bolt mounts are slightly larger than the DSM bolt diameter.  To fix this we decided on some adapter washers, but took it one step further taking advantage of the eccentric hole in the upper bolt on the Evo struts.  Now we can add a little negative (or positive) camber as desired.  Taking it another step further, we can also take advantage of the knuckle width difference and add a small amount of positive caster!  These are 3D Printed to mock-up, final part will be machined alluminum washers.

 

 

For the rear, its a bit more involved.  The DSM mount uses a bushing mount, and the Evo is a fork type mount that fastens to the bushing that is held in the Evo lower control arm.  Some more design work is needed, and prototypes, but this design should work fantastic and use other off the shelf parts to maintain the bushing in the mount.  Other adapters are solid with only a nylon sleeve, and other methods of hacking this together involve cutting the stock DSM bushing off and welding it directly to the Evo Strut. That works fine, but when a shock replacement is needed the adapter is a far better solution.

This is the initial design that was then 3D printed for mock up. Waiting on a bushing before assembling a mock up version.

fidelity101 (Forum Supporter)
fidelity101 (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
4/23/20 9:19 a.m.

im jealous of your cad abilities, hopefully we get to race soon too!

engiekev
engiekev Reader
4/23/20 9:51 a.m.

Eh I'm not a professional!  Solidworks is so easy in comparison to others.

I hope so too, at least the delay gives me time to finish this car. But who am I kidding, it won't be done after the shutdown!

1 2
Our Preferred Partners
v0uDdz4O1luKHz4ljC8eUNaU1gN1H2vwlIwLiOuwJDmyXRwBuEpQk77bnzTRTSvj