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Hoondavan
Hoondavan Reader
8/17/19 7:29 a.m.

I missed the autocross event last week due to a sick kid.  Bummer.

I adjusted the exhaust brackets again and it's been a lot better.  The NVH from the rear has gotten worse.  I suspected the CV is failing, but it could be a number of things.

With the emergency brake on if I spin the front of the driveshaft i can see the inner axle hub turning, but the axlenshaft not turning...so that's part of the issue.  There is a little play between the front and rear of the axle, so the center support axle may have some wear.

The bigger issue is that the rear subframe bushings are shot.  I realized the whole subframe moves an inch as I jack it up.  This has become a major project.

irish44j
irish44j MegaDork
8/17/19 7:50 p.m.

well yeah, if the rear subframe bushings are done, the lower plate is metal-on-metal with the subframe flanges (first pic), which would definitely cause some substantial NVH! Getting torn stock ones out isn't fun at all, so make sure you watch some youtube vids with tips/tricks. 

CSB on the driveshaft shouldn't have any effect on things "moving" - it's just a support bearing. The front and rear driveshaft sections are joined in a splined slip-joint, so there shouldn't be any "play" rotationally between them (and I don't see how there could be, frankly). Probably some slop in your diff input flange or CV axles output shafts. Mine certainly has some. 

Slippery
Slippery SuperDork
8/17/19 8:33 p.m.

I rented a tool from someone on r3v that was amazing. You can remove the bushings in no time and dont even need to remove the subframe. 

The guy’s name is Alex (monty23psk). This is not the tool, but a thread by him in case you want to PM him:

Rental tool

If you are not on r3v, PM me and I can forward you his email address. 

irish44j
irish44j MegaDork
8/17/19 8:45 p.m.
Slippery said:

I rented a tool from someone on r3v that was amazing. You can remove the bushings in no time and dont even need to remove the subframe. 

The guy’s name is Alex (monty23psk). This is not the tool, but a thread by him in case you want to PM him:

Rental tool

If you are not on r3v, PM me and I can forward you his email address. 

 yep, it's actually easier to do with the subframe on with the tool, than it is to take the subframe off (oddly).

side note: the new r3v format sucks, and annoys me. 

Slippery
Slippery SuperDork
8/17/19 8:56 p.m.

In reply to irish44j :

I just noticed the format today, haven’t been on it in over a month. Didnt pay much attention, but noticed it was different and wasnt sure I was on the right website. 

Hoondavan
Hoondavan Reader
8/19/19 2:34 p.m.

In reply to Slippery :

Thanks for the tip on tool rental.  I watched a youtube clip this morning on someone who pulled the subframe bushings with the subframe on the car.  He probably spent $50-$75 in tools. Lots of prep getting all the tools, a bit of a struggle...but definitely looked like it could be done in a day.  I don't like how/where he used the jackstands on the rear of the car.  I always use the subframe for my rear jacking point & jackstand placement...and never the pinch-welds.  I wonder if there is anywhere better to use as a jacking point? 

I'm kind of on the fence about what/how to do this.  A buddy of mine just did subframe bushings and trailing arm bushings on his 318ti racecar project and offered to help me.  If I remove the whole subframe and bring it to his place he has all the tools to remove the bushings and press the new ones in. He recommended going with poly bushings, and also replacing the trailing arm bushings. He also mentioned if I'm ever interested in trailing arm reinforcement, now is the time to do it.  

I'll have to take a closer look at trailing arm bushings. I'm guessing they look bad as well and I should just plan to renew everything.  I also still need to pull one of the axles to either replace it or at least replace the boot.  It is tempting to just replace the bushing on the car and call it "good enough."

The other choice is which bushings to use:  the 80A poly bushings are described as an OEM+ equivalent, the softest poly available .  If I go this route I'll also order the offset control arm bushing as well.  My diff bushing is new (rubber/OEM), so I won't plan to replace that. 

Of course a set of Poly subframe and trailing arm bushings are ~$190 and the OEM rubber ones are $50...so there's that.  

 

Slippery
Slippery SuperDork
8/19/19 2:45 p.m.

I also place the jackstands under the subframe, but in this case you need to use the pinchwelds. 

I removed mine when I replaced the trailing arm bushings, those were a pain in the ass to remove. 

If you are going to be reinforcing, do the swaybar tabs as well. And buy new ebrake wires. 

I have a 318ti as well and have done that subframe as well, same as the e30 so your friend will be good to have around. 

Slippery
Slippery SuperDork
8/19/19 2:47 p.m.

By the way, I did all stock rubber bushings as I wanted a factory like ride. I often question whether I should have used poly on the subframe. 

Next time I might as I feel there is some slop there with the rubber. I did not use BMW parts, but some that I bought from Turner, maybe that is the reason. 

irish44j
irish44j MegaDork
8/19/19 10:33 p.m.
Hoondavan said:

In reply to Slippery :

Thanks for the tip on tool rental.  I watched a youtube clip this morning on someone who pulled the subframe bushings with the subframe on the car.  He probably spent $50-$75 in tools. Lots of prep getting all the tools, a bit of a struggle...but definitely looked like it could be done in a day.  I don't like how/where he used the jackstands on the rear of the car.  I always use the subframe for my rear jacking point & jackstand placement...and never the pinch-welds.  I wonder if there is anywhere better to use as a jacking point? 

I'm kind of on the fence about what/how to do this.  A buddy of mine just did subframe bushings and trailing arm bushings on his 318ti racecar project and offered to help me.  If I remove the whole subframe and bring it to his place he has all the tools to remove the bushings and press the new ones in. He recommended going with poly bushings, and also replacing the trailing arm bushings. He also mentioned if I'm ever interested in trailing arm reinforcement, now is the time to do it.  

I'll have to take a closer look at trailing arm bushings. I'm guessing they look bad as well and I should just plan to renew everything.  I also still need to pull one of the axles to either replace it or at least replace the boot.  It is tempting to just replace the bushing on the car and call it "good enough."

The other choice is which bushings to use:  the 80A poly bushings are described as an OEM+ equivalent, the softest poly available .  If I go this route I'll also order the offset control arm bushing as well.  My diff bushing is new (rubber/OEM), so I won't plan to replace that. 

Of course a set of Poly subframe and trailing arm bushings are ~$190 and the OEM rubber ones are $50...so there's that.  

 

I've used poly subframe trailing arm bushings and have now switched back to OEM (and this is in a stage rally car). The poly ones tend to loosen up unless you check them periodically, and when they get loose, they round out the mount holes on the subframe. Plus they get squeaky and annoying. OEM ones last a long time on a street car, I would just go that direction.

For the subframe itself, I use Condor solid ones (along with the Condor diff bushing). Minimal additional NVH but gets rid of all the "wind-up" flex in the subframe. I like that combo best. ]

If the subframe bushigns have separated (which they certainly have), droppign the subframe is the easy part. Getting the bushings out fo the car is the tough part. I hammered mine back UP into the car (they're huge bolts). But MAKE SURE if you do that put a towel or somethign over them up in the backseat area. Else you can shoot them up and smash the back glass (I've seen it done!). 

All this stuff is covered in my huge build thread someplace. GRM search isn't very good, but if you search the version on r3V you may be able ot find where I did it all. And I didn't use any special tools, btw. 

irish44j
irish44j MegaDork
8/19/19 10:39 p.m.
Hoondavan
Hoondavan Reader
8/20/19 8:10 a.m.

In reply to irish44j :

Thanks for finding the links, I appreciate the advice.  Were the OEM trailing arm bushings more difficult to put in than the poly bushings?  Considering there's 4 of them...if the poly ones are considerably easier to install it may be worth it to go that route and continually check torque.

irish44j
irish44j MegaDork
8/20/19 8:58 a.m.
Hoondavan said:

In reply to irish44j :

Thanks for finding the links, I appreciate the advice.  Were the OEM trailing arm bushings more difficult to put in than the poly bushings?  Considering there's 4 of them...if the poly ones are considerably easier to install it may be worth it to go that route and continually check torque.

I don't recall them being distinctly difficult. Just lube them with a bit of Dawn or something and pressed them in using a bench vise and some large sockets for spacing (or can use a small press), as I recall. I mean, any thing is more work than poly since those just slip right in usually. I certainly wouldn't call the rubber ones "difficult" though. 

adam525i
adam525i Reader
8/20/19 8:41 p.m.

The E30 guys have given you lots of advice on how to do it, I'll just encourage you to get it done soon. The improvement in handling is well worth the trouble you'll go through to get them done.

Adam

Hoondavan
Hoondavan Reader
8/21/19 8:22 a.m.

Order placed! I went with the Revshift 80A poly bushings.  Lifetime warranty and includes the washer and lubricant.  ​

Hoondavan
Hoondavan Reader
8/31/19 9:54 p.m.

Zero progress in the last 10 days.  Ordered bushings directly from Revshift, thinking it'd be good to order direct (also a little cheaper).  In hindsight, I should have just ordered from FCP Euro.

I called on wednesday this week and they said they had shipped out the day before.  I received an email Friday from REVSHIFT saying my order had shipped.  Of course, on Saturday USPS is showing the package as having a label, but not yet received.  Since it's a holiday weekend, they probably won't ship till tuesday(?).

Prep for this Cat5 hurricane that may land on my doorstep has consumed the time I was hoping to rebuild my subframe.  I'm just shocked small botique companies like revshift are so e36m3 at actually shipping product.  If I had known, i would have known it'd take so long i'd have just ordered elsewhere.  [End rant]

 

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