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friedgreencorrado
friedgreencorrado UltimaDork
3/27/17 7:25 p.m.

Absolutely stoked that you're restoring it to contemporary CS specs. So many folks have forgotten that Club Racing rules back then were written for folks like Tullius, Sharp, and Brock (among others) to build stuff that would "sell on Monday" for their sponsors.

I dig it that your dad had a way to take advantage of those rules, even if FIAT never gave him a dime. :D

coexist
coexist New Reader
3/27/17 11:44 p.m.

Thanks for sharing the details of this car. Really interesting, and a great story behind it as well. I had a look at the Pennsic House, another fascinating project.

In the "Interesting coincidence" category: I own two 128's. I have the 67 Duetto that my dad owned for many years. Renovated it a few years ago.
I am a builder, and along with doing several plastered interiors, I've put together some portable structures for our trips to Burning Man.

Cheers.

LMGill
LMGill New Reader
3/28/17 12:29 a.m.

In reply to coexist:

That is an amazing coincidence. One of my past employees does Thunder Dome at BM.

LMGill
LMGill New Reader
3/30/17 12:32 a.m.

New up date on the project:My Blog

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 PowerDork
3/30/17 7:19 a.m.

I just read the blog.

Give us more!!!!!!!!!!

mikePTH
mikePTH New Reader
3/30/17 3:47 p.m.
LMGill wrote: Question for the hive mind: I need rebuild kits for Girling AR1 calipers and perhaps same for a Cosworth SA0071 sump pump. As well as a plumbing diagram of the inlets outlets on the pump. Google turned up nothing. (My brother took this apart and I'm not sure what hose goes where to what.)

For the oil pump you might want to try getting in touch with Doug Learned at Fast Forward Racing Components up here in the Monterey area, he's been doing pretty much all the Formula Ford oiling systems out here for a few decades.

Awesome little car, BTW!

Mike

BrokenYugo
BrokenYugo MegaDork
3/30/17 9:14 p.m.

I'm wondering if the seriously overheated clutch is what caused the coating to fail, differing coefficients of thermal expansion and whatnot.

LMGill
LMGill New Reader
3/30/17 9:57 p.m.

In reply to BrokenYugo:

Yes, this is likely what it was. The flywheel is 3.5 kilos, which I think is a bit light, when you factor in the rest of the lightened bits of the engine. I have found someone who is willing to coat this with a equivalent process and he thinks we can help mitigate some of this issue with the newer updated application techniques.

mikePTH, Thanks for the lead, I'll see what Doug has to say.

Welded up the crack in the Cosworth oil pump today, so it's ready to go back together. I also finished the steering tie rod extension replacements. I should know this, but brand new taps are so nice. They cut so easy. These tie rod pieces are about .700" in dia with a 1/2-20 thread for the rod end and a M14-1 thread on the other, for the Fiat tie rod from the steering rack. I bought the M14 figuring I already had a 1/2-20 tap. The new metric tap cut super smooth and easy in the 303 stainless, but the 1/2-20 tap started spinning in the end stock chuck. Like files, its too easy to think they are, "not that dull" and use them, that is until you use a new sharp one.

LMGill
LMGill New Reader
4/2/17 5:33 p.m.

Looking for someone who has experience with Colotti gearboxes, preferably in California. The Fiat box is most likely fine, but it would be good to have it looked at and I'm not sure I want to risk doing it as my first transmission rebuild.

Pushrod
Pushrod New Reader
4/2/17 6:22 p.m.

Try Epifani or Jon Norman Racing up in Berkeley...they both came out of the old Griswold company and I bet would be good places to start...lotta Italian car expertise & specialists in the East Bay (it's essentially a think tank, really

LMGill
LMGill New Reader
4/2/17 7:34 p.m.

Thanks for that. Turns out, the Fiat box has a broken gear.

LMGill
LMGill New Reader
4/4/17 10:05 p.m.

Colotti got back to me....not their gears. OK, so who's are they? Good news is the final drive is likely stock Fiat, so making the ratio shorter is less of a problem. (getting this car rolling from still is ....difficult) But who has a gear like my busted one. It is of course a 4 speed, not a 5 speed Colotti as I had thought I remember. Any suggestions? On another front, the body should be back from paint this week, along with the newly plated suspension. WOO HOO!

They also have a solution for my one-off custom Koni shocks rebuild!!

I go to Bondurant in two weeks, hopefully I fit in the formula Mazda's, so I might qualify for my SCCA licence, If I don't drive like an idiot! (I'll be asking for help from a few spirits I know are hanging out with my dad. Right Mark?)

Girling master cylinders are shot (they apparently where left in a bucket filled with water, oops) Luckily, Pegasus has new, original Girling MS that match. I still have the 4 Girling AR 2 (or 3) calipers to refurbish. I am also fortunate in much of the hardware used to build this car, I have brand new spares. So instead of having to source Sikorsky HH-3 pelican helicopter bolts, I have "brand new" back ups. (Courtesy of my brother who brought home buckets of bolts being replaced after their mandatory use life.) I urged the spirit of my father to help me weld up the crack in his super light weight drivers seat, and he came though and the weld on the thin aluminum was successful. (I saw the old man weld a half a beer can to a 3/8" aluminum plate. Made the guy at Arizona racing, a CART team, scream obscenities the whole shop complex could hear.) Now I just have to weld up the broken flange on the intake manifold, once I get the Teflon stripped off. Wish me luck!

NOHOME
NOHOME PowerDork
4/5/17 7:56 a.m.

Your old man was quite the engineer. I love a lot of the design tricks.

Don't ask me why, but the exhaust hangers really impress me as unique. I really want to steal that idea for some project.

TED_fiestaHP
TED_fiestaHP Reader
4/5/17 9:07 a.m.

You might not want to change the final drive ratio, to make it easier to get rolling from a stop. Changing the final drive will change the top end to much. The reason it is hard to get rolling, you might have a very close ratio box, so first gear will feel more like third. Also you will have 3 or maybe even 4 gears on the track. The OEM box would only have 2 gears on the track. You could pick up a OEM gearbox to use until you can fix the race gearbox, the OEM box would be OK for vintage racing. Do you have much experience racing a front drive car, they handle a little differently...

LMGill
LMGill New Reader
4/5/17 6:06 p.m.
TED_fiestaHP wrote: You might not want to change the final drive ratio, to make it easier to get rolling from a stop. Changing the final drive will change the top end to much. The reason it is hard to get rolling, you might have a very close ratio box, so first gear will feel more like third. Also you will have 3 or maybe even 4 gears on the track. The OEM box would only have 2 gears on the track. You could pick up a OEM gearbox to use until you can fix the race gearbox, the OEM box would be OK for vintage racing. Do you have much experience racing a front drive car, they handle a little differently...

Well actually, I do want to lower the ratio's because they are all too tall. Back in the day, this car never got out of third gear. I am looking for a 10/53 or a 11/53 final drive. The rev limit on this is 9500 - 10,000 and I think I need 110 to 115 (MPH) at the end of the straight at Lime Rock. It seems Willow Springs may be about the same. (Chime in if your experience at either of these tracks is different) So a 4.80 to a 5.30 final drive will give me that. But, in regards to front drive experience, I'm a novice driver, so I won't need anything too fast till I get some more seat time. For the Lime Rock event, I'll be happy if I'm not just a moving chicane!

LMGill
LMGill New Reader
4/5/17 6:34 p.m.
NOHOME wrote: Your old man was quite the engineer. I love a lot of the design tricks. Don't ask me why, but the exhaust hangers really impress me as unique. I really want to steal that idea for some project.

Copy away. He would have liked that. I too like those hangers.

He was a clever guy. Many people in the racing community encouraged him to build his own car because of that.

Back late 50's he designed an "H modified" with a smooth, tunneled underside with the sides of the car very low to the track, and no "air dam". Guys at the races he showed it to told him he was crazy. With no way to keep air from getting under the car, the thing would flip over or be a beast to handle. He explained that the whole car was really an upside down "wing", and being close to the ground, you could use the track surface to control the air, giving you even more "inverted lift". With no money to build the car, he put it aside and started his welding company. By the mid 60's there where people looking at this concept and of course with development over the next 10 to 15 years, it became "the only way to go".

LMGill
LMGill New Reader
4/5/17 9:53 p.m.

OK, here are the gears. I know this is a long shot, but does anyone recognize anything?

Circa 1970's, used in Fiat 128, but may be other. Very nice needle bearing cages for drive gears. Could have been purchased from Al Cosentino, but maybe not. Broken gear (2nd from left) is 28 teeth, 100mm OD 45mm ID 12.54mm thick (Not counting lugs).

Pinion gear may be stock Fiat, but I do not have shaft measurements for stock pinion, so can't confirm. Either way, I need a 10/53 or a 11/53 final drive. Sent some emails to Italy, have not received word yet. If I can't source one, anyone have a gear maker they would recommend or have any experience having a gear made and the cost?

Thanks in advance.

TED_fiestaHP
TED_fiestaHP Reader
4/6/17 5:58 a.m.

Well if it never got out of 3rd gear then you will want to change the final ratio. In top gear a car like this should max out at about 115 to 120.

Some basics of front drive, forget trial braking, do all the braking in a straight line, as soon as you start to turn in, start giving it gas. Don't back out of the gas in a turn or it will rotate very quickly. If anything goes wrong, give it gas. If you go into a turn to fast, give it gas and hang on, worst that will happen might track out a little to far. Now once you get the basics, you can then throttle steer, once the car is loaded up in the turn, you can lift a little, it will rotate, then get back in the gas, once you master that then you pray for rain. A good driver with a front drive car will have a advantage in the rain. A front drive car often corners on 3 wheels, the inside rear will either be in the air or will be on the ground but with no load on it. The front wheels pull it thru the turn.

Other transmission options, Yugo 5 speed, if you can find one. X1/9 transmissions would be easier to find, but won't fit. The shift rod will come out of the front of the X1/9 trans and you need it to come out of the rear to work in a 128. Now if you have a broken 128 gearbox, you might be able to fix it with X1/9 parts, since most of the stuff on the inside is the same.

TED_fiestaHP
TED_fiestaHP Reader
4/6/17 6:46 a.m.

To find help with the transmission fix, might post some questions on the Production class race forum.

http://prodracing.com/

LMGill
LMGill New Reader
4/7/17 10:48 a.m.

Good news, Marco Colotti got back to me this morning, and it is their T-127 gearbox. They can make the gear and he's looking into a final drive solution for me. Ted, thanks for the tips. I came to the same conclusion on the top speed in forth, so it's nice to see I was on the right track. A final drive of 4.8 to 5.3 puts me at that speed range in forth.

TED_fiestaHP
TED_fiestaHP Reader
4/7/17 11:52 a.m.

Hope you do make it to Lime Rock for the Vintage event, then I will get to see your car.

I should be there, but might not be driving at the event.

damianarmocida
damianarmocida None
4/13/17 5:06 p.m.

hi mi name is Damian live in Rome i have a 10/53 final drive. for the Broken gear,I know a gearbox factory here, they need only sample

BrokenYugo
BrokenYugo MegaDork
4/13/17 8:51 p.m.

In reply to LMGill:

I'd have to dig out my Haynes 128 manual to check but I think some of the 128 4 speeds (wagon variant?) came with a final drive in the high 4s.

LMGill
LMGill New Reader
4/14/17 1:04 a.m.

In reply to damianarmocida:

That's good news. How much would you like for it? Is is stock Fiat or Colotti?

LMGill
LMGill New Reader
4/14/17 1:07 a.m.

In reply to BrokenYugo:

My brother has a X19 4 speed, that I'll use as temporary for testing the rest of the car, since Colotti is saying 2 months to make the gears. I think I can transplant the X19 internals to my 128 box. If not that, I'm sure I can find something to work. But, I am still on the lookout for a 128 5 speed box. A Ritmo box may work as well.

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