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Robbie
Robbie UltimaDork
10/20/18 8:03 p.m.

Now that the challenge is over, it's go time on the Fiat.

Got the rear engine mounts ready to weld in.

First I mocked them in so I could mark the bars that bolt to the engine. Then I removed everything and drilled some holes, then I reassembled and bolted everything together in preparation for welding.

Robbie
Robbie UltimaDork
10/20/18 8:23 p.m.

Also, made this sweet calendar to help stay on track for next October...

NOHOME
NOHOME UltimaDork
10/20/18 8:28 p.m.

Robbie
Robbie UltimaDork
10/23/18 9:00 a.m.

Ok, I think I'm ready for final (haha) welding of these mounts to the car. Things needing welding are:

  1. The 4 brackets to the rear crossbar 
  2. The crossbar to the frame rails on each side
  3. The front motor mounts need some grinding and better welding
  4. The front motor mounts need welded to the car

See them here:

I think the motor is in it's optimal position as far as I can tell. Motor is level side to side with car, close to centered, and the bottom of the oil pan is slightly higher than the bottom of the car. See some more angles here:

So, anyone have strong thoughts on if the motor should move before I 'fix' it in place?

Also, I'd like some feedback on my order of welding. I think I'll grind and fix the front motor mounts first, then do the brackets on the rear crossbar, then weld the front mounts to the car. I might leave the crossbar unwelded for a while for clearance on other things. It's a pretty tight fit but maybe I can clamp it in place when doing the diff. Does that sound right?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ UberDork
10/23/18 9:12 a.m.

Honestly, I wouldn't finish weld anything yet.  Get good strong tacks on everything, but still small enough to be ground off, and assemble EVERYTHING else first.  If it were my project I wouldn't do more than that until there's a full differential, axles, brakes, and suspension in place.

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
10/23/18 9:21 a.m.

In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :

As a helpful tangent- lets say the brackets get ground and cleaned to their final shape, and that the tack weld is really well done.

And a few months go by before enough is 100% in place before the actual final weld can be done....  (which I think is realistic for some people here)..

What tool do you use to clean up the month of oxidation in those small spots?  Would you take it outside and sand blast it?  Or some kind of wheel?  Just curious how to clean up all of that to have a great pair of surfaces to weld.

Robbie
Robbie UltimaDork
10/23/18 9:57 a.m.

These are both really good points. I wonder if I can maybe drill a couple quick holes and bolt the stuff together for now, that way it will all stay in place while I work but when I get it all together I can remove the bolts and do a single weld prep and weld job.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ UberDork
10/23/18 10:02 a.m.

In reply to alfadriver :

Weld through primer?  I'm honestly not sure, my stuff usually doesn't sit that long- my typical prep is a stiff wire wheel on a grinder, which seems to get into the gap well enough for a week of oxidation to still weld just fine, but I don't know about a month or more.

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
10/23/18 10:04 a.m.

In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :

I've never found a good weld through primer....  So I'm hoping that a simple way to re-clean the weld area is an option. 

Fladiver64
Fladiver64 New Reader
10/23/18 4:22 p.m.

In reply to Robbie :

I have had good luck with a stiff wire brush on an angle grinder for clean up even after a year with FL humidity. Might welds are not near as sensitive to clean metal as tight welding.  I would also reccrecomd not final welding until you are finished Fab. It seams everytime I think it is the final design, something further down the road changes things. 

Like the build looks like lots of fun, not sure why you didn't bring that for a parking lot build. I'm sure we could have finished by noon easy, unless of course you are using 3 hacked wire harnesses.

Mezzanine
Mezzanine Dork
10/23/18 5:57 p.m.

Which is easier: the possibility of cutting/grinding out finished welds for something that needs to move when an issue is discovered down the road? Or the certainty of disassembling everything down the road to finish welding?

 

I worry about the latter option only because I know "Perfect" would be at war with "Good Enough". The way I work, every item I leave unfinished is an item I can hem and haw over at least a million more times. There's a time to be decisive. Decisive Mezzanine gets projects done. Striving-for-perfection-Mezzanine never finishes anything.

Stefan
Stefan MegaDork
10/23/18 6:04 p.m.
Mezzanine said:

Which is easier: the possibility of cutting/grinding out finished welds for something that needs to move when an issue is discovered down the road? Or the certainty of disassembling everything down the road to finish welding?

 

I worry about the latter option only because I know "Perfect" would be at war with "Good Enough". The way I work, every item I leave unfinished is an item I can hem and haw over at least a million more times. There's a time to be decisive. Decisive Mezzanine gets projects done. Striving-for-perfection-Mezzanine never finishes anything.

Striving-for-perfection-Stefan needs to STFU and let Decisive Stefan follow Decisive Mezzanine's wake :)

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 MegaDork
10/23/18 6:17 p.m.
Stefan said:
Mezzanine said:

Which is easier: the possibility of cutting/grinding out finished welds for something that needs to move when an issue is discovered down the road? Or the certainty of disassembling everything down the road to finish welding?

 

I worry about the latter option only because I know "Perfect" would be at war with "Good Enough". The way I work, every item I leave unfinished is an item I can hem and haw over at least a million more times. There's a time to be decisive. Decisive Mezzanine gets projects done. Striving-for-perfection-Mezzanine never finishes anything.

Striving-for-perfection-Stefan needs to STFU and let Decisive Stefan follow Decisive Mezzanine's wake :)

Amen!!!

 

(For clarification, i need to be a more decisive dusterbd13)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ UberDork
10/23/18 6:37 p.m.
Dusterbd13 said:
Stefan said:
Mezzanine said:

...Decisive Mezzanine gets projects done. Striving-for-perfection-Mezzanine never finishes anything.

Striving-for-perfection-Stefan needs to STFU and let Decisive Stefan follow Decisive Mezzanine's wake :)

Amen!!!

 

(For clarification, i need to be a more decisive dusterbd13)

Eh, highly decisive ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ is often left wondering if he should have done it a different way.

Robbie
Robbie UltimaDork
10/23/18 10:09 p.m.

So it sounds like the consensus is definitely to be decisive, maybe.

I can quite easily add a couple bolts that will hold everything in place while I work out other things and that is the direction I will go for now. Everything has to get disassembled many more times as I fit the diff and axles so there will be plenty of time for welding.

Robbie
Robbie UltimaDork
10/23/18 10:12 p.m.

In reply to Fladiver64 :

Only 3 hacked harnesses? I think on this car since the motor is Suzuki I'll just grab a Kawasaki wire harness and give it a shot.

NOHOME
NOHOME UltimaDork
10/23/18 10:26 p.m.

Tack the parts and cover in grease and Saran Wrap. Cosmoline if you can still get the stuff. Easy to clean with solvent for paint or welding.

Fladiver64
Fladiver64 New Reader
10/23/18 11:21 p.m.

In reply to Robbie 

I think you should start with a vintage Norton harness, the Brits are known for their high quality electrics.

bigeyedfish
bigeyedfish Reader
10/24/18 12:14 p.m.

If this is being stored indoors, I would tack it and not worry about further clean up unless it gets a pretty healthy rust coating before you can finish weld it.  You can mig weld right through a little surface rust.  Is it ideal?  No, but with good welding and well designed joints, you'll be fine.  If it's being stored outdoors I'd  prime it and plan on cleaning (grinder or wire brush) before finish welding.  Either way, I hate having to cut out finished welds.  You will typically sacrifice one of the two pieces that were welded.

Robbie
Robbie UltimaDork
10/24/18 3:34 p.m.

Ok, the rear brackets hold pretty well just with the bolts in but I grabbed a couple random brackets I had laying around to make it a bit more semi permanent. 

I will similarly bolt the front mounts in place and then get to work on the diff to engine mount!

Robbie
Robbie UltimaDork
10/26/18 7:50 a.m.

Fronts bolted temporarily too!

Last night I got to bracket making out of a piece of basically scrap angle (these used to be base rails for the displays at the local hardware store and they were selling them for $2 each, so I grabbed all of them I could). Mark:

Use hole saw (go slow and use plenty of CRC cutting oil):

Next use a precision metal cutting instrument to get the angle off:

Use a slightly more precise instrument to cut it into 4 brackets:

And finally use a really precise (but slow, boo) instrument to make the final shape so they fit tightly on the pipe they will be welded to. More on these brackets later...

 

 

 

Robbie
Robbie UltimaDork
10/26/18 8:00 a.m.

I also got started on the diff mounting. I think I have my design (super simple, but should be effective). First, mock up a diff:

Yes, that is a yogurt container.

Next, go back to wood templates. The zip ties and pins through the wood at the top mimic how I plan to use the brackets I made earlier. The brackets will be welded to the bar and the diff mounts will through bolt to the brackets. This will allow some movement for tensioning the chain.

I will also connect the two wood pieces below the diff with a third piece, and I will use turn buckles (or maybe scrounge tie rod ends) to connect the bottom mount of the motor to the bottom of the diff mount. That is what will adjust the chain.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ UberDork
10/26/18 8:08 a.m.

That should work- you're gonna need BEEFY turnbuckles though.  Any chance of having them go the opposite direction so the chain loads pull on them instead of push?  I would also consider a slotted bracket with a pinch bolt next to each turnbuckle so that once you set the chain tension you can clamp the diff in position.  You don't need a lot of movement, realistically you should be able to have it move the length of one link and just cut a link out of the chain if it gets too loose.

mbruneaux
mbruneaux Reader
10/26/18 8:48 a.m.
Robbie said:

Also, made this sweet calendar to help stay on track for next October...

The more I plan and organize the less I accomplish.  I have my life on a calendar and it hardly ever goes as planned.

 

Very cool build!

 

Patrick
Patrick MegaDork
10/26/18 9:00 a.m.

Robbie, I probably have something you can use for your chain tensioner.  Text me later and when I’m in the garage I will send pics

 

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