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mke
mke HalfDork
5/23/20 7:26 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

Yes hot and cold.  

Last time I took the heads to 350 and seats in liquid N2 but no way I'm allowed to go to the welding store during lock down so freezer which is at 0F and heads to 350F is the plan which is what the seat maker recomends anyway.  That is pretty close to damage the heat treat temp but after all the welding I don't think its a concern with these heads.  They also say neverseize, last time I used WD40...thinking about trying the neverseize this time around

frenchyd
frenchyd PowerDork
5/23/20 7:30 p.m.

In reply to mke :

I've never used anything.  Anything between the seat and the head will slow heat transfer. Plus it absorbs space which you're trying to eliminate.  

Crackers
Crackers Dork
5/23/20 8:19 p.m.

R134a and a can tap.

mke
mke HalfDork
5/24/20 2:06 p.m.

Tools made, heads on the barby, bits in the freezer, won't be long now.

SkinnyG (Forum Supporter)
SkinnyG (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
5/24/20 2:42 p.m.

I like how you size the Barbie according to Ferrari cylinder heads.  That's planning ahead for sure!

mke
mke HalfDork
5/24/20 4:00 p.m.

In reply to SkinnyG (Forum Supporter) :

Some how I just knew picking the bigger of the 2 sizes would turn out the right choice smiley

 

Everything back in its place.  The destroyed chamber is starting to look normal.  I went with wd40 as the lube... anything left will evaporate and be gone.  Little parts warm up fast so I threw a big chunk of aluminum in the freezer with them and set them on that next to the bench while they were waiting there turn.  

Once they cool down I'll get cutting.

mke
mke HalfDork
5/24/20 7:53 p.m.

Spent the evening honing the guides...they feel a whole lot better now and the valve drop onto there seats they way they should but really didn't before, which I blamed on the assembly lube but never actually cleaned it off and tested with light oil.....sloppy, sloppy, sloppy.....I just wanted it done so badly......live and learn

mke
mke HalfDork
5/25/20 8:29 p.m.

So valve seat cutting did not go exactly as planned....so just like everything else.

I decided to start on intake casue there were way less to cut, just the 2 from the smashed chamber and 3 more where I replace wonky looking guides and it was the wonky guides that seemed to cause the issue.  ! head only needed 1 seat cut so thats where I started and had to cut about 30 off to clean it up because the best I can tell the wonky looking guided was just what it appeared and the center hole was angled.  When I cut the seats I put a 5mm pin in the guide and indicate it true at about the seat position so a slight wrong angle somewhere can't result in a valve that doesn't sit on its seat.  Then I replace the guide with a straight one which shifted the hole location a few thou and BAM, it can't be cleaned up without really sinking the valve and will need to be replaced.  i't will be 2-3 weeks before I have another seat I'm guessing.  In the pic, just above the red there is a more greyish area (from a quick lap) that is there towards the bottom and gone near the top right....that is where the valve is supposed to seat and clearly can't.

On the the next head.  The new seats cut WAY different as in way worse than the old seats, same part numbers but very clearly different material...that suck but not the end of the world.  Damaged chamber seats cut.  then I changed 2 guides...1 cleaned up at about 005 which is fine, the other at 015 so probably replace it.  that got me measuring things....hmmmm...why when I drop this valve in the holes in this head is it sitting .010 higher from the deck than when I drop it in the hole in the other head?  That is where I ended my night.  

Tomorrow I will check the cam to deck distance on both heads.  that will tell me if I need to take a bit off 1 head or recut the seats on the other head to make a matching pair.  Its not a big difference...but this is supposed to be the no more excuses build....wait a minute....why do the 2 new intakes look different from the old intakes?  Oh God damn it they changed the valve design again.  Last time I fought with them for months to get 24 that matched...this is a much smaller change.....and 22 more is 800.......fine they valves are close enough, first excuse  :(

New on the right, old, as in 3 years old and different from the 10 year old design on the left.  I need a new valve company......

Number1Gaza
Number1Gaza Reader
5/25/20 8:40 p.m.

That sucks.  Then again, big picture, you're using motorcycle valves in a Ferrari head.  Hiccups are... not necessarily shocking.  Still gotta be extremely frustrating.  You are so far beyond the level of what I'm capable of I don't have any further comments.  Where's the bowing to Buddha GIF when you need it.  Anyway hope you get it figured out soon.  
 

mke
mke HalfDork
5/25/20 9:41 p.m.

In reply to Number1Gaza :

I guess the valves keep changing issue is they are race parts (as in do NOT direct fit ANY OEM application)  for a vehicle that is very actively being raced, which means the parts are still in active development and normally when you do a rebuild you replace the set so it wouldn't matter to most people that they changed.  Luckily I didn't go with my first choice of 32mm intakes as they have been discountinued and only the 34mm I switched to at the last minute are still made, but now ever so slightly lighter it looks light at the expense of a little compression.  I KNOW its nothing to worry about and were I not so OCD.....I need to get back to checking all the valve for make sure they are either straight after dinging the pistons....I might not have a choice but to replace the set although I very honestly don't have any money left in the budget so I REALLY want to save what I can or it could be another year before it runs. 

 

 

mke
mke HalfDork
5/26/20 7:00 a.m.

OK, damaged chamber head is .010 thinner than the other, so I just need to face the other head 10 and they will match.  I checked all the intake seat and most are within .005 high to low with just a couple sitting a bit higher so I'll re-touch those and 3 sitting low and those were already slated for new seats.  

Still annoyed about the mismatching intake valves......but I guess it won't actually hurt anything and I do want to finish at some point.....I need to get setup and check all the valves and then decide.  

Sadly HomeDepot delivered most of my stuff yesterday so I need to get back to that work for a bit but that will give the new seats time to get here and maybe have time to really look at the valves

LanEvo
LanEvo Dork
5/26/20 10:49 a.m.

How do we vote for the new king of GRM? Is there a mail-in ballot or something?

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
5/26/20 11:56 a.m.

In reply to LanEvo :

This is currently featured on the GRM home page. smiley

mke
mke HalfDork
5/26/20 6:42 p.m.

LOL...its hard to say no to heads on the barbie, especially testarossa ("redhead")

I still question my decision to 308QV satin aluminum the cam covers instead of testarossa red them.  I don't know....I've always had a weakness for redheads......

NorseDave
NorseDave Reader
5/26/20 8:43 p.m.

I'm almost surprised you're not making the valves yourself....

mke
mke HalfDork
6/2/20 9:33 a.m.

I worked pretty hard last week trying to get my outside work done and be free of it.  It stilll needs the patio stone but I like to let things settle a bit whenever possible so I don't end up laying the pavers twice....its done until next spring I think, plus i don't have the paver stones or money to buy them so another excuse.

Here's before and after...quite a change....there is talk of extending the stting wall on the right to the end of the patio and maybe creating a raised bed behind it, but that's next year if it happens as the gound here is clay and rock so spring is the only time it can be dug for free with the shovle vs renting an excavator with money that should be going to the car.

 

And remember all this was just a distraction...the assigned project was the basement, which needed more enatural light....and like 5 months later.....

Just got the tracking number of the intake seats, they should be here Thursday.....the same day the wood for the basement ceiling comes which will make focusing on the basement a bit harder.  Trying to keep the ceiling as high as possible so the plan is replace the soot filled fiberboard trunk runs that are 10" tall with metal runs that are 8" but the same inside size.  Then take the 2x10s and rip them to a true 8" and screw them up to the joists parallel to the new trunks so the drywall goes no flush to the bottom of the trunks....needs a bit more planning and building in the right sequence but it should be nice....but at least 2 weeks work I'm guessing.  

After that I'm not sure. I know Lana wants the ceiling up (which will lead to wanting the walls done) but wiring and lights are next and probably needs $1500-$2000 that I don't really have and there was never any budget for this project so in my mind it needs to wait until the crank is reground and the engine put back together....not looking forward to that conversation.

But intake seats are coming is the take away  smiley  

Syscrush
Syscrush New Reader
6/4/20 6:12 a.m.

In principle, I'm here for crazy V12 Ferrari action - not basement renos and retaining walls.

In practice: that is beautiful work, you should be proud of it, and I'm looking forward to seeing what comes next.

mke
mke HalfDork
6/4/20 7:44 a.m.

I know.  I included it because its the price for starting the car in the basement, after I was specifically told not to, and setting the basement on fire......it was a very VERY expensive mistake in both time and money.

 

Intake seats should be here today and our county goes to "yellow" so I can probably talk my darlying wife into letting me drive to the machineshop with the crank soon.  Not sure what I'm going to do with the cylinder liners yet.....I need yo opnen that box and have a look.  I'm cloe to ready to assemble.

Greg Smith (Forum Supporter)
Greg Smith (Forum Supporter) Dork
6/4/20 8:49 a.m.

Agreed. What you have done with the basement is not only high quality work, but it suits the house and looks like it could have been originally designed that way. 

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