mke
mke Dork
7/19/21 4:12 p.m.
bentwrench said:
Syscrush said:

Is knurling a worse idea than JB-Weld or epoxy primer for some reason?

Knurling would likely deform the cylinders, I think it would actually change the ID as well.

That and I was also afraid the finish would damage the block going in and these are supposed to float so there is some small motion in use.

mke
mke Dork
7/19/21 4:13 p.m.
APEowner said:

I'm wondering if drilling and tapping for the handle for the lapping bar might not be better than welding.  I'm concerned that the heat from welding will distort the end of the bar slightly.

yeah......welding is just so fast but...yeah.....

mke
mke Dork
7/19/21 4:22 p.m.

I ran over to the paint store at lunch to pick up the epoxy.....look at that, its a gym now crying

ordered from Eastwood,  will deliver in 2 days.  I am a little concerned that its a thermal barrier....but it is only 1-2 mill thick and at least they will be touching now so I'm sure it will be better than it was.

mke
mke Dork
7/21/21 6:53 p.m.

Paint came.

I'm not loving how it sprayed....it doesn't really matter but I don't know if its the paint or my gun or my mixing but the flow valve is full open and its still not flowing well.  There is still paint in the gun so I'm leaning toward another coat knowing I may need to sand but I don't want to set up again so ....

 

So I open the shop door, started cleaning and taping and a storm rolled in....I was afraid baby would melt....but I think she survived. surprise

 

OHSCrifle
OHSCrifle UltraDork
7/21/21 8:38 p.m.

Following with interest but you've lost me.
I think I understand the lapping bar's purpose (not sure) but what's the paint about? It looks like you're padding up the.. pistons? to a larger size? 
 

..I'm over my head but curious. 

mke
mke Dork
7/22/21 7:24 a.m.

In reply to OHSCrifle :

The lapping bar is the factory method for fitting bearing.  Lay it in the block, no caps to be sure it touches all the journals, then add caps and flip it over so the weight is on the caps and work them to size each bearing.

There is nothing factory approved for the painting I'm up to. The paint is on the outside of the cylinders, not in the bore.

The bores themselves are a bit larger than I planned so I did have the pistons coated to snug them up and be sure they don't rattle.  That's a different problem though.

This problem is that when I fit the liners to the block I discovered the bores went out of round, most around 3 thou which would be ok, but 1 up to 17 which is not anything like ok.  I'm pretty sure the issue is cylinder to block clearance...they are all too loose and a couple liners had some taper so they were in spec at the oring middle bore, but -5 thou at the bottom and that let then go way out of round. 

The holes in the block are pretty round but most have taper so good at the bottom, loose at the oring.  I think I'm going to see if I can hone them straight and finish up around 3.576.  The liners are 3.571....with the paint right now they are 3.579 so I can sand them down to fit and maybe not need to start over with a new set. 

I'll futz with it over then next couple weeks when I have breaks from house work.  For now the paint need to get hard so they need to just sit, I'll move them to a top shelf upstairs in the shop where it gets stupid hot this time of year to bake while I look at the block and decide how to extend the lapping bar so I can turn it. 

It turns out if it could be wrong, it was wrong.......crying

mfennell
mfennell Reader
7/22/21 7:48 a.m.
mke said:

I ran over to the paint store at lunch to pick up the epoxy.....look at that, its a gym now crying

I had a similar experience.  Mine became a carpet warehouse. 

OHSCrifle
OHSCrifle UltraDork
7/22/21 9:16 p.m.

In reply to mke :

Gracias. Fascinated by the mechanicalness. 

mke
mke Dork
7/24/21 8:35 a.m.

Let the futzing begin!  I put the main caps on and measured the spigot bores this morning.  They are not horrible but not ideal with the smallest reading at 3.573, the largest at 3.576, sadly both on the same spigot.  9:30am and the shop is already pretty hot so back to house work while I ponder what I want to try first to get this a bit straighter.

 

 

Syscrush
Syscrush Reader
7/28/21 8:09 a.m.

I've learned exactly 3 things from this thread:

  1. No metal where it should be? Weld!
  2. Metal where it shouldn't be? Mill!
  3. Never bet against mke.

Can't wait to see how you get this sorted out.

APEowner
APEowner SuperDork
7/28/21 9:21 a.m.

Do I have this right?

The cylinders are clamped at the top between the head gasket and the counterbore (shimmed for correct clamping) and that the part you're calling the spigot kind of floats in the block with an O-ring to keep the coolant out of the oil pan?  That's how the engines I'm familiar with are configured.

When you fit the liners in the block the bore in the liners measures out of round and they're OK when they're on the bench?

How's the concentricity between the upper bore in the block and the lower bore?  That won't be fun to measure but it's important.

 

mke
mke Dork
7/28/21 11:29 a.m.

In reply to APEowner :

Yes, you have it right other than there are no shims, it just has to be the right height.

I'll need to think about how I might make that measurement.  I know they were cut in a single setup to make them concentic, but I've never really measured it.  I did swap cylinders around to different holes in the block and confirmed that for the worst ones the issues moved with the liners but the better ones were about the same hole to hole. 

My thought at the moment is tighten/correct the spigot clearances and see if that alone get things to an acceptable place...if not I will need to move to the concentricity or squareness of the deck perhaps

APEowner
APEowner SuperDork
7/28/21 12:15 p.m.

The problem followed the liners?  That's interesting.  I wonder if the outer diameters of the liners are concentric.  You'd think that they would all have been done in the same setup on a lathe or CNC turning center and would pretty much have to be but still.  Or is it that the liners the exhibit the issue have the larger ODs?

In an ideal world do the spigots touch the bore at all?  It's been a while but I think that the engines I've worked on with that setup were supposed to only touch the o-ring on that end.

mke
mke Dork
7/28/21 1:02 p.m.

In reply to APEowner :

The liners that stay rounded have the largest ODs....hence the effort with the jbweld and paint to tighten think up.

The liners are 2 batches....6 I made on the very worn manual lathe and 6 darton made so they are a bit different and 3 I made it turns out were quite undersize at the very bottom, and they went the furthest out of round.

I honestly don't know the factory fit specs...I do know they never just drop in... so probably about 0.000 to 0.001 clearance?  That is what I'm trying to get to any way

Rigante
Rigante New Reader
7/29/21 6:38 a.m.

when you get this done, you must get it on Leno's Garage

mke
mke Dork
7/29/21 11:25 a.m.

In reply to Rigante :

Here's one to build on the "it goes to 11" :)

 

mke
mke Dork
8/9/21 7:02 a.m.

My hope for mornings in the shop did not materialize...3000lbs of leftover commercial 24x24x7/8 creama marble did along with some what bent 60" linear drain that had straightened and cut into the concrete, a wall mounted sink that came with very specific framing requirements,  and a wall mirror that needs a dedicated 20A line...don't ask.....a few more weeks it looks like. 

The drain came out nice though after all the concrete dust settled

 

Syscrush
Syscrush Reader
8/9/21 9:41 a.m.

Haha, my big project was finding and patching the holes some wildlife bit/tore into my kids' new little inflatable pool when I made the tactical mistake of leaving it inflated overnight.

That drain is sick. Hat's off to whoever picked it (although I believe I can guess).

mke
mke Dork
8/16/21 8:20 a.m.

So the backerboard is up in the whole bathroom....1 step closer to back on the car

I thought I was going to waterproof it all yesterday but an emergency project came up.  I had to get the 3D printer setup and running to make a knife from a game for display.......little one was thrilled so worth the delay.  I know he was looking at colors on amazon last night so tonight he'll probably need help sanding and prepping it for paint. 

I do need to printer working right to print velocity stacks and a few other bits so this was a double win with a happy 11 year old and the pos home stop that has always been trouble replaced with a billet alum unit....I was still having trouble with the spool feed so we has to sit and watch it for 4 hours so fixing that will be the next printer project I guess if I can get the kids interested.

 

mke
mke Dork
8/21/21 3:06 p.m.

A little more work to do on sealing up seams but its nearly time to tile.....and Lana got an "only on craigslist" deal on 24x24 creama marble but its commercial grade so about 7/8" thick and about 35lbs each!

This will be the floor and wall.  But they aren't going to stay 24x24, oh no!  Every stone gets cut on 2 sides so they are equal size wall to wall and then floor to ceiling so roughly 18x21....and all the grout lines aligned.  That means I'm going to be spending some time sawing which got me to shopping for a saw.  The dewalt is nice as expected but...harbor freight is still really over what I hoped to spend.....enter craigslist again with a new in box dewalt at a less than harbor freight price.  It was 2.5 hours away but.....man, its a nice saw. 

JoeTR6
JoeTR6 Dork
8/21/21 3:39 p.m.

When I renovated my previous master bathroom, the contractor doing the framing and plumbing loaned me a similar saw for doing the tile work.  It cut through porcelain very well.  Yeah, that saved me a ton of time and wasted material.

mke
mke Dork
8/22/21 7:29 a.m.

In reply to JoeTR6 :

I'm hoping it helps with time cuz this is going to take a good bit of time. 

The stone came from and old Italian stone wholesaler in NYC who was retiring and clearing out his warehouse...I think he said this stuff was leftover from a Macy's.  Lana also found a commercial supply place clearing out their warehouse and bought everything including a heated towel rack, heater mirror so it doesn't fog, why not right? frown   Anyway this morning it occurred to me that with Italian marble floor and walls, and all the other treasures going in I can take a little comfort in knowing that if I can't work on the Ferrari at least I'm working on the ferrari of basement bathrooms laugh

 

stingray230sx
stingray230sx
8/22/21 12:37 p.m.

that basement bathroom is going to be so nice, you will have to duplicate it upstairs ........

mke
mke Dork
8/22/21 10:06 p.m.

I worked about 12 hours today.....and only have 1 wall to show for it

Syscrush
Syscrush Reader
8/23/21 12:07 p.m.
mke said:

I worked about 12 hours today.....and only have 1 wall to show for it

The world is full of people who can put in a 12 hour day and get nowhere near that quantity or quality of work done - give yourself credit!

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