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GTXVette
GTXVette SuperDork
12/23/18 12:16 p.m.

If You Want to go C4 in the Rear, Umm I got A Couple,  

  Looking For A 31 spline 9"/Posi or locker rear, 70's PU truck w/ BB had them

Fladiver64
Fladiver64 Reader
12/23/18 4:32 p.m.

In reply to SVreX :

Got it, hard to tell sometimes with zooming in internet pictures and I don't know all of the trim by heart. I do like to impala jet that extends on the door.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
12/29/18 10:11 a.m.

In reply to GTXVette :

Ok, I’m intrigued.  Im trying to think what would be involved...

I am assuming I would gain a stronger rear end, IRS, and an LSD. 

And I am assuming I would have to fabricate all the mounting points, and probably consider a custom driveshaft. 

Sound like a good summary?

Norma66
Norma66 Reader
12/29/18 10:47 a.m.

The top picture for sure. I love a car that looks like a stock classic car on the outside. But underneath is a fire breathing dragon that will scream when the gas pedal is smashed.

GTXVette
GTXVette SuperDork
12/29/18 11:23 a.m.

If you are really Interisted We can just cut the Frame/ Roll it Out. Both are Dana 36's  and I guess not lsd's but complete I would try to make it Simple,

Cooter
Cooter Dork
12/29/18 11:27 a.m.

In reply to SVreX :

I would think that by the time you are done fabbing a C4 rear into an X frame, you are likely to be better than a quarter of the way into a fabricated frame.   Now, this is fine if you never replace the frame.  But would be a bummer if you had to do the work twice.



As for the body, I would start with figuring out what you can keep, what you can fix or replace cheap and easy, what would hurt, and what would be nearly impossible.  And then list them each in their own columns.   Then picture the car with the items added progressively from each column to figure out what you could live with.  While I like body colored bumpers on some vehicles, this one looks better with contrast, IMHO.  Maybe even a grey/silver as is done with fiberglass bumpers?  This FG bumper was painted in Rustoleum Bright Silver, and looks good enough to not draw away from the overall look.  It would also be cheaper than painting a body colored bumper, plus touch ups are a breeze.



But these are only some ideas, and my opinions; it is your car, and you have to love what it becomes.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
12/30/18 11:53 a.m.

In reply to Cooter :

Very good point about the frame. 

GTXVette
GTXVette SuperDork
12/30/18 1:43 p.m.

Ok, O O O- K,  Honestly I can't remember what the rockers look like as in A Perimeter car frame fitting under the el camino Nor do I know the legnts and width's but A box Impala or newer Caprice Frame may fit or an A body but most likely the G body chevelle would go.

I will Offer you the whole Vette Frame but I was using the Front suspension under the Fiero/ out side frame rails are the same width and it's a butt load of work to get larger brakes on a Fiero, the vette suspension is about complete in one piece, So Simple Simon Say's......

Any way if I can help let me know.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
12/30/18 6:19 p.m.

In reply to GTXVette :

I’m not clear...

Are you saying the entire C4 frame is available?

It certainly wouldn’t drop on- the wheelbase is 21.5” longer on the Elky. But the entire frame would probably give me a few options. 

Ive lost your number. Give me a call when you can. 

GTXVette
GTXVette SuperDork
12/31/18 7:37 a.m.

I will Call,  But yes , all I want from that car is the Body parts and front Suspension,  21 inches may as well be a mile, for fabbing /nothing to it  I knew a Full size car or wagon frame,  NOT A Conastoga WAGON AS THEY SEEM to be C 4 Legnth., would fit.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
1/1/19 8:38 a.m.

I’m gonna nix that Corvette stuff- gets in too deep too fast.  I will be buying a replacement frame before I realize it.

But the Jaguar rear end is very enticing. smiley

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
1/1/19 12:48 p.m.

Maybe an X frame ain't so bad!

 

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
1/11/19 12:25 p.m.

OK, I am re-thinking the frame mods.  I am strongly considering a frame-off right now.

This rabbit hole is gonna get deep quickly...

Fladiver64
Fladiver64 Reader
1/11/19 2:11 p.m.

Not sure how far you want to go with a frame, but I have a 57 frame modified with Corvette front and rear suspension, ame center section. It is set up for ls but making a BB fit should not be a problem. I know stock is an x frame but I have seen conversions, just not sure how bad things get. I have been trying to sell the whole project but have not had any luck because the car is a 4 dr hardtop, so I could consider parting out the frame and selling the body on stock frame.

Picture just to give you some bad ideas.

Cooter
Cooter Dork
1/11/19 2:13 p.m.

Either you're all in or you're out. wink


I actually think this is the best way to deal with the suspension, TBH.  

Norma66
Norma66 Reader
1/11/19 2:39 p.m.

I love me some Scope Creep on a project! yes

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
1/11/19 2:41 p.m.

In reply to Fladiver64 :

You've got mail.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
1/11/19 2:49 p.m.

Yeah, scope creep is definitely a thing...

I could buy a custom frame, but the pricetag is about $16K.  I have a great fabricator who could do all the necessary reinforcements to the X-frame for under $2000.

I know drag racers who have run an X frame successfully for years.  I also know low riders who bounce the darned things (after reinforcement).   This will not be under that stress.  But I hate to make it pretty on top without cleaning things up underneath.  Lifting it off the frame would give me the ability to really do the chassis right.

The '57 frame is an interesting option...

Fladiver64
Fladiver64 Reader
1/11/19 3:24 p.m.

In reply to SVreX :

Mail replied to, I can't match the $2000 fabricator price, but can save a lot off the $16k frame price.

pres589 (djronnebaum)
pres589 (djronnebaum) PowerDork
1/11/19 3:44 p.m.

How much rework would it take to slide the 57 frame in where an x-frame used to live?

NOHOME
NOHOME UltimaDork
1/11/19 4:23 p.m.

 

 

Just gonna toss this out cause why not....This guy might be of interest. http://forum.retro-rides.org/thread/206817/1951-willys-jeep-pickup-truck

 

He sticks Dodge Durangos under a variety of vehicles. Seems to be an endless supply of cheap donors. 4wd when done and a perfect wheelbase match to the 1960 El Camino.

He has a bunch of his builds documented on YouTube.

Note that he does these builds on the order of weeks or months while maintaining a real full time job. The donors never become non-running vehicles

 

The question I would have is if it can end up with the right stance on the Durango chassis. While the Durango is not quite a truck, and the ElCamino is kinda a truck, I am not sure where they would meet or how much you could adjust by lowering suspensions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pete

carwhisperer
carwhisperer Reader
1/11/19 4:39 p.m.

I've been thinking for a long time that a late 90s Lexus SC400 or 300 would be a great suspension donor.  Unboltable aluminum front and rear subframes with all aluminum suspension arms. Pick n Pull prices. Not sure about the width vs. the Elco. Probably too narrow. I think it would work better for a 1st or 2nd gen Mustang, or maybe a Chevy II or Falcon.

 

Also, I think there are some good 4 piston brake caliper options for that setup, as opposed to the sliding, single piston Corvette calipers.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
1/11/19 7:15 p.m.
pres589 (djronnebaum) said:

How much rework would it take to slide the 57 frame in where an x-frame used to live?

That sounds so easy online!

The short answer is anything can be done, but I don't think it will play out that way.  Pre 1958 ladder frames were down the perimeter under the rockers.  The original pan of the Xframe cars were contoured to tuck the frame:

So, while many of the dimensions may be very similar, they are likely to be in a completely different plane.  I am concerned that every pickup point and connection would have to be modified, or significant channeling would have to be done to the pan to prevent the car fromn sitting 6" too high.

I'd love the Corvette underpinnings, but I have a feeling by the time I'm done, I would have essentially done as much work as building a chassis from scratch.  Fladiver64 and I talked about it for a while today, and we both share the same concern.

I think my path forward is to lift the body off the frame, inspect the frame carefully, then (assuming all is well) take a few tips from the low rider crowd about how to reinforce an X frame.  I will have a reinforced frame better than original, with no twist, that will fit perfectly in the location it came from.  While it's out I can do a complete restoration, sandblast, build the rear end, suspension, and all bushings and wear items.

Current plan.  We shall see...

 

 

Greg Smith
Greg Smith HalfDork
1/12/19 4:23 p.m.
SVreX said:

Note on the chrome...

It’s stainless on this car. Mine is not in great shape.  A full restoration of the chrome is about $5000.  Its worth considering...

I doubt I will do a full de-chrome. I am leaning more toward a custom grill, custom bed, swapping some of the feature chrome pieces for Impala ones, and perhaps considering painting out the bumpers. 

But I am still interested  in other people's opinions.  This is a work in progress... but the car is headed to the fab shop next month, so now is the time for decisions.

For my camo Spitfire, I flat-blacked out all of the chrome. The car is yours! Make it what you want - no chrome to me does look "dipped in paint" but maybe you could paint / coat / or even vinyl wrap the chrome pieces you have? Carbon fiber is a bit dated, but might hit the look you're going for with your colors...

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
1/12/19 7:06 p.m.

In reply to Greg Smith :

I’m actually heading the other direction now. I am going to try to focus on the chrome, and increase/ improve it. 

Chrome is too much a part of the soul of this car.  I can’t loose it.   I will be swapping some of it for Impala trim, and making a couple subtle changes.  The goal is gonna be to emphasize the long low lines of the car, but make it look almost stock (but better).

 

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