Finally an update: the old engine is out!
Next: Building a rotisserie out of 2 rotating engine stands.
Finally an update: the old engine is out!
Next: Building a rotisserie out of 2 rotating engine stands.
I would strongly suggest a way of tying the two stands together. Casters on the engine stands will also make it more mobile.
Lookin' like an interesting project so far.
The cheat code for engine direction is the engine always rotates the direction of the drive wheels. Honda changed direction when they moved the engine to the other side of the engine bay. I suspect they did their engines "backwards" because they had no longitudinal legacy engines to work around, sticking the engine on the left makes sense for a right hand drive car, and three-shaft transaxles are efficient.
Awesome, glad to see an update!
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
The stands I'm looking at do have casters, but I will figure out a way to tie the 2 together. I'm using this guy's FC RX7 rotisserie as a general blueprint: https://imgur.com/a/2X4n2
I do have a couple questions though:
1. What gauge of steel tube to use? My Harbor Freight shop crane seems to be a mix of 6ga and 11ga tubes.
2. Where do people source it?
Looking at suppliers online has yielded some very un-GRM prices. But possibly I'm looking in the wrong places, or at the wrong sizes.
I agree with others that you should just patch the floors.
If you decide to get a MIG welder, don't skimp on that. Get a dual voltage unit if you have 220 in your garage. I started with a "cheap" 110 flux core welder then graduated to a dual voltage MIG. I don't use the flux core welder any more unless I have something to weld outside on a windy day.
Cool project!
One source for more affordable steel is demolition contractors who have a sales yard. The yards can have all kinds of weird but wonderful things but I know the local yard has steel of all sorts.
You can also check local fabrication shops or such and see what rhey have in their drops rack
I tend to buy metal from aircraft spruce, but that is not a cheap source. Mcmaster carr has some low carbon square tubing that might be a reasonable price. Not sure what might be available near you, but some sort of scrap yard might have something cheap, depends on how much time you want to spend looking for something.
Minor update: Two engine stands are on the way to me, soon to be joined to make a rotisserie.
Meanwhile I'm thinking about engines. My goal for this car is not for it to be super fast, just quick, simple, and cheap. Here's the space I'm working with:
The right engine:
Honda D16 is an obvious choice, and has been done before in this chassis. But many are over $1k now and they barely broke 100 HP in stock form when new.
What about a 2.0 Zetec? Not sure if it's small enough, but they made 130-170 HP new and seem to be about half the price of a D16.
What else should I consider? Something out of a MINI? Nissan MR18DE from a Versa? What about a motorcycle engine?
Buying a donar car and swaping everything in will be the cheapest way to go, I'm sure you can find a rusted out civic with a good drivetrain
I think the oldest set up to look at would be the D series, 1992 Honda. All kinds of stuff available for that trans. Older, EW series, will have issues with parts.
If you use carbs or some simple stand alone injection system, that would be simple.
A Zetec would probably look like a big block in comparison to a D16. Even when people would Zetec swap a Fiesta, they would only use the Zetec bottom end under a CVH head, because they only made the CVH up to 1.6l outside of North America, that is their easy button for a 2 liter CVH.
The D series was engineered to fit where an E series engine sat since it was used concurrently in some Civics, no? Plus it is all around a nicer engine: lighter (I think), all of them except for some rarities were 16 valve...
One could probably make enough power with a D16 to make the chassis seem insufficient 
Not sure what the going rate on the 127ish horsepower VTEC engines is in 2023, if they are worthless in the face of K20 swaps or if the nostalgia bug has made them crazy expensive.
I know from experience that a DOHC Subaru EJ would fit in that hole, but then you have some major suspension and floor mods to make because the transmission will want to be everywhere. But those frame rails are 2" further apart than the stupid idea I came up with... BUT by the transitive property, that also means a Mini Cooper drivetrain would fit. The Mini has the same axle splines as some older Hondas, too, not sure about yours. And then you would need to bung a distributor and carb on it to meet your goals, but the D16 would need that too. (A D16 distributor is not a self contained unit, it is a sensor, need a computer to control the coil)
@Pete, you've definitely got me thinking about a MINI turbo 3-cylinder now...
Not exactly a simple powerplant, but for some reason I love the idea. Going rate for these on eBay seems to be around $2500 though -- probably better to buy a whole donor car from Copart or similar, as @Automotiveflux said.
So to summarize, I set out a list of rules for the engine and then immediately violated several of them with my #1 pick. The heart wants what it wants, I guess.
I think all the base line Mini Coopers have 11 to 1 compression. Put into a much lighter car would make plenty of power to be fun, and it comes with a good 6 speed trans. But there are some complex issues to deal with, electronic controls and high pressure direct injection.
Keeping everything as light as possible, a motorcycle engine could work. Could be tricky to connect the power to the wheels.
It's not just the engine, but the entire drive train, trans and engine and how to get power to the wheels. Even a similar drive train, will need custom axles.
What about the 2zz? Should be pretty readily available since they made plenty of the Matrix/Vibe/Celica. I'm not sure how well it would fit though. Or what prices are like these days
Following!!
Turbine said:What about the 2zz? Should be pretty readily available since they made plenty of the Matrix/Vibe/Celica. I'm not sure how well it would fit though. Or what prices are like these days
Expensive since they had issues with oil pumps breaking. Not sure if they had the same cylinder liner erosion issues that the 1ZZ engines had, but those engines are thin on the ground now too.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
Oh damn. I knew the 1ZZ had its issues, but I thought the 2ZZ was relatively problem free. I guess I need to get more familiar with Toyota stuff lol
Went to the local Pull-a-Part yesterday and grabbed some rough measurements of a 1ZZ in an '05 Vibe:
Width and height (oil pan to valve cover) actually look good on this one, but the depth is really tight, especially with the way the Civic engine bay narrows as it approaches the firewall (see measurements picture a few posts back).
I also saw a 1st gen Focus on my way out, so I grabbed some measurements of the 2.0 Zetec as well:
Similar width and depth, but way taller. The original EM1 engine in the Honda was 23" from oil pan to valve cover. A hood scoop would be rad, right?
What about a ZY out of a Mazda2? That made like 110 HP I believe. I'm trying to talk myself out of the BMW/MINI turbo-3, as cool as that would be, because I don't want to get the chassis sorted and the drivetrain installed just to face months of struggling to convince a dozen German black-box computers that they're still inside a real car.
You need to get the transmission, too, some engines have very long (wide?) transmissions. I know my old VWs had the bellhousing flange practically in the center of the car, the engine was so short and the trans so long.
What about the engine Toyota used in the Yaris, Scion xB and xA? Available with manual transmission and it looks pretty small. 1.5 litre and 106 hp , aluminum block and head.
In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :
Great idea! A quick search on car-part.com shows a lot of 1NZ-FE engines in the $500 range. I'll try and get back to the yard to grab some dimensions this week, but I bet it would fit.
But also... Is there really that much more room in mk1 Golf engine bay? Because a 1.8 turbo or even a VR6 + 02a/02j transmission fit there...
In reply to saruken :
The 1.8 turbo is the same engine block as the 1.5/1.7/1.8 engines that VW put in them since 1975. The DOHC head is the same dimensionally as the 16v head that VW put in that chassis in the Scirocco. The neat thing is the 1.8t still had the same engine mount bosses, too.
The VR6 is what it is because VW engineered it to fit where the already-tiny four cylinder (88mm bore centers!) would fit. All the same, a VR6 does require some body hacking.
I have not had them side by side but I think the four cylinder is smaller than a D16.
Need the motor and trans or full package. Measure distance from one front hub to the other, if similar width, then you can use the axles and front suspension, total package, wheel bearing, hubs and spindle assemblies. You could put the entire drive-line package in the front or in the back. If the newer drive-line assembly is wider, might work better at the back. Like the R-5 turbo.
The fiat X1/9 used a front wheel drive assembly but it's at the back, then used the front suspension from the same front wheel drive car.
Anything can be made to fit, seems the simpler way would be to use all of the new assembly.
If the dimensions on Wikipedia can be believed, a VW 1.8T should fit nicely:
At 23", it's the same height as the original EM1.
That engine also ticks all of my other boxes. Plus I bought this Civic from the owner of a VW repair/tuning shop in town, so it seems especially fitting. The Civic was his pizza delivery car before he opened the shop.
Now to quit daydreaming and get back to building that rotisserie...
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