SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
1/30/20 9:15 a.m.

In reply to Stefan :

Nice... Thank you!

I have SO MUCH reading to do...

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
1/30/20 9:17 a.m.

Yes, progress is still moving forward. I have reached that moment of no turning back, and double checking my gut. 

I am taking one last hard look at that Lotus chassis before chopping the bottom out of the car. 

Stefan
Stefan MegaDork
1/30/20 12:03 p.m.
SVreX said:

Yes, progress is still moving forward. I have reached that moment of no turning back, and double checking my gut. 

I am taking one last hard look at that Lotus chassis before chopping the bottom out of the car. 

In the immortal words of the CRX-Corvette Challenge build; "Its only metal" or in your case, "Its only fiberglass"

E_NinjA
E_NinjA New Reader
1/30/20 3:02 p.m.
Stefan said:

In the immortal words of the CRX-Corvette Challenge build; "Its only metal" or in your case, "Its only fiberglass"

I must have missed this CRX-Corvette build. Any links or keywords to search for?

Stefan
Stefan MegaDork
1/30/20 3:10 p.m.
E_NinjA said:
Stefan said:

In the immortal words of the CRX-Corvette Challenge build; "Its only metal" or in your case, "Its only fiberglass"

I must have missed this CRX-Corvette build. Any links or keywords to search for?

Sorry, Its Just Metal:

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/its-just-metal/

 

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
2/8/20 3:17 p.m.

I warned you this build may be slow...   My father is dying, so I have a few bigger priorities right now.

Having said that, this is the post where I will look indecisive, and wishy washy.  You knew that about me from page 1 in this thread. 

I'm revisiting the chassis question one last time,and would like your feedback again...  

I got to the point of no return.  The MR2 chassis is hacked, and the Europa is in the air, ready for me to chop out the bottom.

I started thinking about my end goals, and had a check in my thinking.  I realized my ultimate goal is not the Challenge.  After that, I want to have a car I want to own.  

The MR2 chassis is a shortcut to the Challenge, but I am not convinced it is a car I want to own.  It will be a chopped up body on a chopped up chassis with a LOT of compromises.  No fun as a street driver, and little to no resale value.   It will bean oddity, but not a nice car.

The car I'd rather own would be based on the Europa chassis.  Spine down the middle, Europa nimbleness, with some tube frame reinforcing and cage for safety.   A powerful transverse engine driving the rear wheels. An awesome street driver, excellent track or autocross toy, and a desirable car. I have seen similar cars on the market for $50K.  Can I build it for Challenge money?  Maybe not.  But it is the car I'd rather own.

The collective voice here has been to run with the MR2 chassis.  You are probably right.  Just trying to figure out if the car I'd rather own is more than I am capable of building, or if I am limiting myself by insisting I get it to the Challenge in one year.  

Thoughts?  Have I convinced you, or is the MR2 chassis still the best option in your opinion?

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
2/8/20 3:18 p.m.

This is the Europa chassis I have.

 

In some ways, its a shame to cut it.  It's rust-free, and probably worth quite a bit of money. But it's the one I have for free.

Patrick
Patrick MegaDork
2/8/20 3:26 p.m.

Build what you want to own.  The challenge mr2 hack is a means to an end that you're not searching for.  This is why i sold Darth Nader.  I loved the idea but didn't want to own it.  Who cares what the lotus "frame" is worth.  If you want to use it, by all means use it.  If you killed an already dead mr2 to come to this revelation, so be it.  
 

if you blow the $2000 budget but end up with the car you want, is that a problem?  I'm perfectly happy with the Wartburg even though I cannot take it to florida.  

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
2/8/20 3:29 p.m.

Here is a 2GR mounted in a Europa chassis with the rear half  tube framed.

 

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
2/8/20 3:30 p.m.

...and here is a video walk-around of the same car:

YouTube2GR Europa walk-around

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
2/8/20 3:33 p.m.

In reply to Patrick :

I’m glad you chimed in. Thank you. 

Stampie
Stampie UltimaDork
2/8/20 3:34 p.m.

Build want you want as Patrick said. If that's a Challenge MR2/Europa then go for it. Doesn't sound like that's what you want. I think the free Europa can be made with factory chassis under $2k. Is the MR2 savable into a death kart?  Might be a way to sell it to a DA like me. 

Mr_Asa
Mr_Asa Reader
2/8/20 3:43 p.m.

If its not what you want then it turns into work.  No one wants to work for free.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
2/8/20 4:36 p.m.

Forgot to mention...

The chassis has been laying in the yard if a friend’s house for nearly 2 years. 

When I picked it up, I was looking around at some of his projects, and realized he’s a really good fabricator. 

I told him about the Challenge, and he got pretty excited. He told me if I needed a hand, he’d be more than happy to help. 

So, I may have found a new Challenger, AND some help with fabrication!

Fladiver64
Fladiver64 Reader
2/8/20 5:39 p.m.

I'm going to chime in here with the rest and say build the car you want. since it looks like you might have a new fabrication partner then not sure why you couldn't make the car you want for challenge money. The rear sub frame you showed in your pictures should be able to be built for a reasonable cost, given how little you have in to start.

I can tell you from my brief experience having team members to help with ideas and making decisions, really helps the project paralysis. Team members with different talents gives you a lot more choice in direction, I know we have made decisions that I would not have made if I was doing this on my own. The same is true of my team members, things I feel comfortable tackling are way outside their comfort zone.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
2/8/20 6:05 p.m.

In reply to Fladiver64 :

Absolutely true. 

This guy may be a little limited as a team member (short on time). But I think I can get him to help me fabricate. 

NOT A TA
NOT A TA SuperDork
2/8/20 6:41 p.m.

Consider throwing together the body on MR2 chassis as an inexpensive learning experience? Sell it off after the challenge even at a loss if need be by considering it an educational expense.  Then buy the best Europa you can find to build the dream car/keeper. If you build the keeper car using the body you have, the body repairs are likely to come back and haunt you a couple years after it gets painted. Build the keeper using a car that is mostly original and spent most of it's life in a garage. Then you'll have a longer lasting better looking car when done.

Also it will probably save time because you won't be focused on "car after challenge" while building the first one and you won't spend forever trying to track down all the missing bits & pieces you'll want the keeper to have.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
2/8/20 8:12 p.m.

In reply to NOT A TA :

I like that idea. I believe I can incorporate it into the game plan. 

But I could also build the best car under the skin I am able to, and just swap skins later. 

Brotus7
Brotus7 HalfDork
2/8/20 9:04 p.m.

I reached out to the builder of the 2GR Europa, unfortunately he doesn't have alot of drawings for the rear chassis.  He did share some awesome front brake rotors hats and caliper mounts with me though - I'll ask if he's happy to share with the larger community.

I vote for building the car that you want to have and will enjoy more.  The fabrication aspect is a big hurdle - if you have access to someone who can help and teach, that'll be great for this and future projects.  Will struts fit in the rear of the Europa?  That would take a bit of the engineering out of the equation. You could use the MR2 to build a jig, then you position the jig to the chassis and weld in metal to connect the dots.  Sure, it isn't dual A arm, but it works well enough when roll is limited.

For me, it was to build the car with minimal major changes, and let scope creep kick in once I can start driving it.

Pete Gossett
Pete Gossett MegaDork
2/8/20 9:12 p.m.

In reply to SVreX :

Do you have a windshield? If not are you ok with a lexan one for the street, or paying $500+ for a new one when they ship a batch stateside every few years. 

I won't tell you not to build the car you want, but if what you want in the end is a nice Europa it'll be cheaper & faster just to buy one, and then if you still want to swap it, go for it. 

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
2/8/20 10:30 p.m.

In reply to Pete Gossett :

I don’t have a windshield, but I’m OK with Lexan (and a possible swap later)

NOHOME
NOHOME MegaDork
2/9/20 7:15 a.m.

The rear clipped path is the safest bet to a challenge car that might also make a good post challenge ride. Also the fastest way to the 2020 challenge. If you go this way, you will know what needs developed after the event and decide based on where you are if it is even possible.

The issue I see with the MR2 chassis is that I am not convinced that it will work. Finding out will require cutting the Europa body to the point of no return. I also see that you will need to cut the MR2 firewall to the point where it loses a lot of its benefits. Anything can be accomplished if you dont let fear and common sense get in the way, but it wont be the easy button.

 

Pete

pres589 (djronnebaum)
pres589 (djronnebaum) PowerDork
2/9/20 7:30 a.m.

First off, sorry to hear about your dad. 

Secondly, spit balling, do you really want a Europa or do you really want an MR2?  Fun to drive, fun to live with, transverse engine mid/rear engine all says MR2 to me.  I always liked the styling of the mk1 MR2 (I like all of the Toyota MRx cars) and I never really liked how the Europa came together past the doors, like a bread van kind of.  There's some pretty intense engine swaps into MR2's and I think the enthusiast network and parts supply is better than with the Europa. 

This is all my opinions and conjecture but since you seem to be at the pre-planning stage, now might be a time to figure out if you really want a Europa or not and then move on from there. 

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
2/9/20 7:39 a.m.

In reply to pres589 (djronnebaum) :

Europa. I like bread vans.

MR2s are cool, but the styling has never been my thing. 

Except the Spyder. That one I like. But if I was gonna have one, I’d want to put a 2GR into it, so this effort would all be part of he learning curve. 

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
2/9/20 7:40 a.m.
NOHOME said:

The rear clipped path is the safest bet to a challenge car that might also make a good post challenge ride. Also the fastest way to the 2020 challenge. If you go this way, you will know what needs developed after the event and decide based on where you are if it is even possible.

The issue I see with the MR2 chassis is that I am not convinced that it will work. Finding out will require cutting the Europa body to the point of no return. I also see that you will need to cut the MR2 firewall to the point where it loses a lot of its benefits. Anything can be accomplished if you dont let fear and common sense get in the way, but it wont be the easy button.

 

Pete

You nailed it. Those are my exact concerns, and observations. Just needed someone to put it into words for me. Thanks!

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