wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr UberDork
2/13/20 9:34 p.m.

Rotary?

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
2/13/20 9:35 p.m.

In reply to Mr_Asa :

Yes. Definitely possible. 

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
2/13/20 9:37 p.m.

In reply to JThw8 :

Didn’t rule them out. Forgot them. 

But I’m  not keen on air cooled, and I want to maintain mid engine (not rear engine)

I could use bus trans. 

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
2/13/20 9:44 p.m.

In reply to wvumtnbkr :

I have a love/ hate relationship with rotaries. 

Total respect. But I don’t like being near them.  (Hate the sound)

What trans would we mate it to?

Robbie
Robbie MegaDork
2/14/20 12:39 a.m.

300 hp?

2 bike engines. Or turbo bike single engine. Or run bike engine plus nitrous like Tom says not like Tom says just do it anyway.

 

JThw8
JThw8 UltimaDork
2/14/20 6:42 a.m.
SVreX said:

In reply to JThw8 :

Didn’t rule them out. Forgot them. 

But I’m  not keen on air cooled, and I want to maintain mid engine (not rear engine)

I could use bus trans. 

Im suggesting the transmission, not the engine :)  Recall please, the Wartburg used a VW transmission but a watercooled engine.  There are a vast array of adapters to bolt almost any motor to a VW transaxle.  Rotary, toyota, subaru (too wide for your needs) and the 4 cyl ecotecs are popular.  Kennedy Engineering will sell you an adapter for almost any engine to VW trans, and the more popular options (subaru, rotary, ecotec) are able to be found in the used market.

Also you can easily modify a VW transaxle for reverse rotation to be a mid engine application instead of rear engine.  You just need to flip the ring gear to the other side :)  

Another mid engine possibility is to use a subaru 5 speed with the kit from Subarugears to block off the rear output and only drive the front driveshafts.  Very strong transmission and 5 speed to boot but to my knowledge no one is making engine adapters for these so it would be a roll your own kinda deal unles you figured out how to make a subie motor fit (still guessing its too wide)

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
2/14/20 11:04 a.m.

In reply to JThw8 :

Yep. That’s a reasonable plan for the transmission. (Transaxle)

Subie engine definitely won’t fit mid engine without chassis mods. 

Stefan
Stefan MegaDork
2/14/20 11:11 a.m.

The Audi 01x is a bit more durable, doesn't need to be flipped and has adapter plates available from Kennedy and the like for nearly anything from BMW V12 to most major 4-cylinders.

Robbie
Robbie MegaDork
2/14/20 11:18 a.m.

Why not electric?

It actually seems like bolting a large electric motor to the front of a transaxle would fit really well. Or get a couple of electric motorcycle motors and do one to each wheel?

You could then strategically place the batteries to distribute weight.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
2/14/20 11:29 a.m.

In reply to Robbie :

That’s my ultimate plan, but I gotta go down some path that is reasonably familiar to get it to the Challenge for its first trip. 

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
2/14/20 12:23 p.m.

...which is also part of the appeal to me of cutting the chassis and reworking it. 

The Europa chassis “Y” is very limiting. It effectively reduces the engine bay compartment by about 75%, and leaves a suspension design that is integrated with the drivetrain layout. 

If I modify the chassis for a transverse application, it effectively means a big “box” at the rear, instead of the “Y”. The “box” would contain the drivetrain, and the suspension would be attached to it. The drivetrain and suspension would not be integrally tied together. And the engine bay compartment would effectively be the entire “box”. 

If I chose to switch to electric in the future, I’d just have to pull the engine and swap springs, then begin an electric install. 

If I keep the Europa “Y” for now, a future change to electric may also mean a redesign of the suspension, and perhaps chassis. The “Y” is plenty big enough for the electric motor, but batteries would have to be installed very high in the engine bay (above the chassis), or behind the rear wheels.   It would be better to mount them low and forward.

RoddyMac17
RoddyMac17 Reader
2/14/20 12:36 p.m.

I have to ask, and dont hate me for it, but why 300 hp?  A car as small and light as the Europa goes very well with less than 200 hp (the factory race cars had at most 175 in period trim).  

As for engines, there's a guy up here (Vancouver) that stuffed a Buick V6 mated to an Audi box in a Europa with very little cutting of the chassis.  V engines do work in the confines of the Europa chassis.

On to gearboxes, I would think Audi is the way to go with a longitudal set up, failing that an aircooled VW box would work just fine. If you found an early IRS one, invert it and you would have yourself a 'box that looks very much like a Hewland (the early Hewlands used VW cases). And if you could find a Formula ford adapter plate you could bolt a Zetec up to it.

In regards to the rear suspension and drivetrain integration, it's easily changed though it does require some fabrication and welding.    

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
2/14/20 12:44 p.m.

In reply to RoddyMac17 :

Truthfully, like all numbers, it’s a bit arbitrary. 

But it’s approximately the power/ weight ratio I am targeting. And targets are very good for planning. 

RossD
RossD MegaDork
2/14/20 1:00 p.m.

I found my kennedy adapter for a zetec by searching for it. I found a random forum post about a guy trying it out but his build went a different direction. Joined that forum just IM the guy. I think I paid $175. They are out there if you look.

JThw8
JThw8 UltimaDork
2/17/20 1:37 p.m.

If you'd like to noodle with one for size or other purposes I tripped over a VW IRS transmission out in the barn yesterday and would be happy to let you trip over it for awhile instead :)

OjaiM5
OjaiM5 Reader
2/17/20 5:00 p.m.

Felt a sketch coming on for this build

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
2/17/20 5:32 p.m.

In reply to OjaiM5 :

That’s awesome!!

maschinenbau
maschinenbau SuperDork
2/18/20 7:56 a.m.

In reply to OjaiM5 :

surprise

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
2/21/20 2:26 p.m.

One reason I didn’t want to start a build thread on this is so I could stay focused, and you guys wouldn’t distract me and have me chasing rabbits. 

Mission failed! cheeky

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
2/21/20 2:30 p.m.

I’ve had some family issues, so I haven’t made much progress. 

I’m gonna take one last look at that VW stuff. If I think I can keep the chassis completely intact, I will consider the 1.8T with the Audi trans. I like retaining the longitudal engine, and keeping the weight centered well. 

 

 

dherr
dherr HalfDork
2/21/20 3:13 p.m.

I think you will be happier with the results. Keeps your intact chassis, prevents you having to fabricate a complete back of the car, keeps it Lotus and fits the bodywork. 

 

wheelsmithy
wheelsmithy UltraDork
2/21/20 4:46 p.m.

UMM, Rex, are you followingthis thread?

Passat transmission, 1.8T Europa named Igor.

Indy-Guy
Indy-Guy PowerDork
2/21/20 5:12 p.m.
wheelsmithy said:

UMM, Rex, are you followingthis thread?

Passat transmission, 1.8T Europa named Igor.

+1.

Following a similar path looks like it would give you the results you seek.

slowbird
slowbird Dork
2/21/20 5:25 p.m.

Did someone ask for Europa inspiration? How about the obscure Group 5 Lotus Europa?

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
2/21/20 5:41 p.m.

In reply to slowbird :

Yup!

That car is my primary inspiration

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