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obsolete
obsolete HalfDork
2/17/22 11:48 a.m.
V6Buicks said:

Thanks all!  If you're making enough power to warrant a hood dump then it's okay I guess, but I think a 3" full exhaust will flow more air than 90% of car people will ever pump.  I'm sure posting those kind of facts will make some people mad, but I don't find unnecessary hood holes to be a cool thing at all.

Agreed 100%. 

iansane
iansane Dork
2/17/22 11:56 a.m.

Looks good so far!

I ran a hood dump on my turbo trans am but that was because I thought I didn't have clearance. After redesigning the motor mount and "shaping" of the downpipe tube I got it to fit. Much better solution.

V6Buicks
V6Buicks Reader
2/17/22 12:13 p.m.

In reply to iansane :

I'm hoping a little "shaping" will be all I need to get a socket on my #6 plug too. haha

V6Buicks
V6Buicks Reader
2/21/22 11:32 a.m.

I took advantage of having a wide open weekend.

Overall, I like these Mishimoto v-bands a lot better than the junk I was using before.  Check it out!  No clearancing needed for that number 6 plug.  The v-band spaced the pipe perfectly.

I added a little bend in the middle to smooth out the lower bend to the intermediate pipe.

However my only method of making okay bends out of straight pipe is the slice it with the saw enough to bend it by hand and weld it back together.  My abrasive chop saw makes a wide kerf but also a big mess out of the pipe and my garage.  I would love an actual blade, but that would require a much nicer saw.  Maybe some day.  Until then, I have to put the grinding stone on my Dremel extension and chip away at these huge burs.  It doesn't take long.  They're super thin, but still annoying.

 

From there I was able to get a good idea of how the intermediate pipe was going to be built.  I'm putting a v-band between it and the down pipe, a Z to the 4" system with an adapter and band clamp.  There will also be a hanger under the passenger floor board once the plumbing is finalized.  I'm not going to bore you too much with progress on this because its hard to get good pictures, and it's not all that exciting anyway.  Just know that it will be done soon.

Ever used seven jack stands on one car? lol

Once I got stuck waiting for parts again, I decided to pull the downpipe off again, weld on the O2 bung, and tease myself a bit with (nearly) final form views.  I am so in love with how this thing looks.

I ordered some parts that should be here this afternoon, but I was still motivated to continue progress.  Did I mention that I bought a Lakewood driveshaft mount/tunnel brace?  Well I did.  I don't have pictures of it, but it's basically a very ugly bent up piece of zinc plated steel with a lot of bolts in it for easy removal.  The mofo about it is that it mounts to the factory tunnel brace brace mounts which I cut out of the car years ago during floor repairs and never replaced.  Now I get to make them.  Ireally just hope that I can get away with welding them in without removing the carpet or setting it on fire.

I'm starting on the driver side because I know exactly where the original mount used to be.  It was integrated into the end of the frame channel.

I bent this piece out of some scrap.  It fits flawlessly!

Then I roughly mocked everything up and determined about where my bolt holes needed to go.  The loop has some big slots in it to account for variance, so I don't really even need to get close.

I'm not looking forward to welding this overhead on the floor, but no pain no gain.  Right?

Gambit0117
Gambit0117 New Reader
2/21/22 4:05 p.m.

Good luck.. 

autocomman
autocomman Reader
2/22/22 2:47 a.m.

Drill holes in it so you can spot weld it

V6Buicks
V6Buicks Reader
2/22/22 7:31 a.m.

Thank you Gambit.

Autocomman, I have a very hard time doing plugs overhead.  I'm considering drilling the floor and plugging from inside instead.  I haven't decided for sure though.

I finished the plumbing portion of the exhaust build last night!  It sounds so much better even without a muffler.  Many of the drones and awful open dp 3800 sounds are already noticeably suppressed.  Of course a long drive will be a better test though.  Even my wife is happy about it.  She said that she definitely knew when I started the Camaro, but at least it didn't shake the house down this time. lol  I'm sure a lot of that has to do with it pointing outside instead of to the floor, but I'm excited nonetheless.

https://youtu.be/QwZGCKRJ0t0

V6Buicks
V6Buicks Reader
3/8/22 8:04 a.m.

I discovered a product which I'm already liking a lot.  I've seen those big sweater sleeve looking things for plug wires and boots, and I'm not a big fan.  However, my wires come too close to the down pipe to not manage the heat in some fashion.  After a bit of digging, I found something a lot less lazy, and a lot more slick.  Since my wires won't actually touch anything hot, I should be in good shape to run this thin cut-to-fit DEI sleeve instead.

Shavarsh
Shavarsh Reader
3/8/22 1:47 p.m.

Wow, always impressed when I open this thread. I like the wire sleeves. Can you fit a normal deburing tool inside the pie cut slit to take the large parts of the kerf off before bending?

V6Buicks
V6Buicks Reader
3/9/22 8:15 a.m.

In reply to Shavarsh :

Thanks!  I hope they hold up nicely.  I didn't think to try the deburr tool before welding, but I don't think there was enough give in the metal to slide it in there.  I probably could have cut the pipe a little further and made it work.  There were a lot of ways to do this exhaust better and quicker, but I'm learning.  If there's a next time, I'll be sure to have a better chop saw and a hole saw jig.

Since I'm here I'll give a small update.  I pulled the exhaust apart last night.  First of all, I really need to get this thing out for some driving.  I think dumped a solid pint of water out of it which started the rust process.  This car tries to drown itself when it idles too much.  Oh well.

I decided to abandon the third hanger idea.  There was no nice way to incorporate it into the body, and I think it would actually make service more of a nuisance.  I have no problems dropping the intermediate pipe and reinstalling it as is, so I'm moving on!  Wrap time.

This was as far as I could get. I forgot that 25ft is not a lot when it comes to exhaust wrap!  I'm buying a 50ft roll and some other odds/ends.

V6Buicks
V6Buicks Reader
3/14/22 8:32 a.m.

More exhaust progress.  I swear I'm almost done!  These adjustable hangers are an ugly headach though.  Let's fix that.

Dumb

I welded the nut, cut off the excess bracket, and welded the clamp to the pipe.

This used to be two pieces with a bolt and nut holding them together.

Final wrap time!

I put it all together, fired it up, went for a drive, and....

 

It's the absolute worst sounding vehicle I have ever heard in my life.  I seriously kinda just hated the whole car after that drive.  All the cool spooly sounds went away, the rasp is really embarrassing, and it's quiet enough that I can hear other problems.  I'm not giving up, but I'm only making one more change before deciding to deal with it.  I bought a straight through style 4" Magnaflow muffler.  It cost me a pretty penny, but it will fit perfectly in place of the Hawks test pipe.  If it just takes a little bit of the edge off that awful decel noise, it will be money well spent.

Patientzero
Patientzero Dork
3/14/22 4:59 p.m.

I've only ever heard one v6 that I thought sounded good.  It was an Alfa Romeo with ITB's revving to the moon.  Turbo cars rarely sound good IMO.  I don't think it's anything on you it's just the nature of the beast.  This is obviously just my opinion and is no way meant to sound demeaning toward you or your car.  I love the new Ford Raptors's but just can't get over the sound.

Gambit0117
Gambit0117 New Reader
3/14/22 7:12 p.m.

Resonators, Resonators, Resonators...

Nitroracer (Forum Supporter)
Nitroracer (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
3/14/22 10:56 p.m.
Patientzero said:

I've only ever heard one v6 that I thought sounded good.  It was an Alfa Romeo with ITB's revving to the moon.  Turbo cars rarely sound good IMO.  I don't think it's anything on you it's just the nature of the beast.  This is obviously just my opinion and is no way meant to sound demeaning toward you or your car.  I love the new Ford Raptors's but just can't get over the sound.

The newest of Raptors now have a different exhaust system to help with the sound problem.  Matching the length of the down pipes before running out the back of the truck seems to be the way to improve it.  I'd like to try it with my Frontier once the exhaust rusts out so see if it sounds less like a 4.3L with a blown muffler and more like a 350Z.  Even just a little.  Unfortunately, I do realize this doesn't help much with a single turbo and single exhaust pipe.  I hope you find a way to make it more enjoyable.

 

crankwalk (Forum Supporter)
crankwalk (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
3/14/22 11:20 p.m.
Patientzero said:

I've only ever heard one v6 that I thought sounded good.  It was an Alfa Romeo with ITB's revving to the moon.  Turbo cars rarely sound good IMO.  I don't think it's anything on you it's just the nature of the beast.  This is obviously just my opinion and is no way meant to sound demeaning toward you or your car.  I love the new Ford Raptors's but just can't get over the sound.

I'm with you that v6s struggle to sound good. You lost me at turbo cars rarely sound good. I think this car with the same exhaust but a big quiet muffler at the end would be great. Like a 3 in high flow cat and a big, baffled OEM type rear muffler in back. With the size of that piping, power isn't going to take giant hit but sound will. Emphasis on making the exhaust quiet and amplifying the spooling turbo sounds up front. 

V6Buicks
V6Buicks Reader
3/15/22 9:13 a.m.

IMO turbos can make anything sound cool.  This car was awesome when it had an open downpipe, but it was obnoxiously loud.

I disagree on the whole whole nature of the beast comments in terms of the V6, but I admit that I'm incredibly biased there too. wink I LOVE the way a Grand National sounds when it's screaming down the track.  The 3800 just isn't quite that haha.  ZZP made an equal length set-up which makes the FWD cars sound a lot better, but I'm not changing mine to mimic that.  Unfortunately, my manifold lengths are horribly unequal.  Without completely redoing everything and losing the wannabe GN look I'm going for, there isn't much I can do about it.

Let's see how the 4" Magnaflow muffler I ordered affects things, and go from there.  I should be able to chop my intermediate pipe and add a resonator or two in there.  If all that works, I'll probably have to add a cut-out to the down pipe too because I can't imagine all that muffling being something I'm happy with all the time. haha

GasTungstenArc
GasTungstenArc Reader
3/15/22 9:31 a.m.
V6Buicks said:

Thanks all!  If you're making enough power to warrant a hood dump then it's okay I guess, but I think a 3" full exhaust will flow more air than 90% of car people will ever pump.  I'm sure posting those kind of facts will make some people mad, but I don't find unnecessary hood holes to be a cool thing at all. 

This commend deserves to be agreed with again.  Hood exit exhausts are sloppy in the most disparaging sense possible.  Sure, if your car is for racing purposes only, then do whatever floats your pickle.  But for a street car, it's just bad form.  

V6Buicks
V6Buicks Reader
3/15/22 9:36 a.m.

In reply to GasTungstenArc :

haha thanks for the reminder!  As awful as this new exhaust sounds compared to the dumps I've made in the past, I can't justify going back.  I feel like a quiet but relatively unrestricted exhaust will help make me a distinguished gentleman.

GasTungstenArc
GasTungstenArc Reader
3/15/22 3:41 p.m.
V6Buicks said:

I feel like a quiet but relatively unrestricted exhaust will help make me a distinguished gentleman.

It might require more work than that to get you there, but it's a step worth taking.  

V6 engines do have some undesirable tones that are worth hiding.  It shouldn't take too much to take the edge off.  

 

V6Buicks
V6Buicks Reader
3/16/22 8:16 a.m.

In typical me form I didn't take waiting for a muffler very patiently.  The car is apart again.  I redirected the exhaust fumes, but the nasty part was the oil fumes.  The pan gasket was leaking badly right onto the exhaust crossover.  Don't worry.  It's already going back together, and I was very liberal with the RTV this time.   Fingers crossed that it seals.  I still haven't gotten my muffler though.  I hate when I don't get a tracking number.

I'm also planning on getting a new set of tires.  I'm still running the Khumo Ecstas that were on the wheels when I got them.  They sat on a parts car for at least four years before I scooped them up, so I really shouldn't have been driving on them at all. lol  Anyway, I'm looking into Nitto555 G2s because they seem to have good reviews and they aren't on back order like so many others.

Patientzero
Patientzero Dork
3/16/22 2:09 p.m.
crankwalk (Forum Supporter) said:

You lost me at turbo cars rarely sound good.

Do you think the exhaust sounds better with a turbo or that the turbo sounds sound cool?  See the difference?  Put twin turbo's on a LS motor and the exhaust definitely sounds worse.  Once it's spooled up and the wastegates are opened up that is an entirely different story.

autocomman
autocomman Reader
3/18/22 10:15 p.m.

Yeah, exhaust...I've got no idea what my SC3800 will sound like.  I don't want it loud honestly.  But some of the better sounds V6s, other than the Alfa which is a no brainer...is the 2.8 in the fiero.  I dunno why but the sound they had I always likes, little raspy, right amount of sport and noise.  For me anyway.  And 4inch is huuuuuuge!  Engine masters they got 600 hp from dual 2.5".  That seemed to be the limit of the pipe.  A Volvo red block with a turbo waaaakes up a lot with 3 inch turbo back.  Surprising how much faster it spools.  2.5, not so much.  Turbo cars love to breathe.  The 1275 in my sprite that has a GT17 on it is 2 1/4, it's quite lively.  Looking good, the dei plug wire loom is good stuff.  I use it ofelyen to insulate the start wire on many builds, never actually used it for spark plug wires haha.

 

Also muffleX...it's fun to say...muffel...X haha

crankwalk (Forum Supporter)
crankwalk (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
3/20/22 3:25 p.m.
autocomman said:

 Engine masters they got 600 hp from dual 2.5".  That seemed to be the limit of the pipe. 

They also did that with a built aluminum head 454 BBC running duals. For a 400hp 3.8 turbo v6 going into single pipe, diameter isn't going to be as much of a restriction for a slight noise penalty. Unless the 4 inch Magnaflow has baffles, my prediction is it sounds great at idle but under load it still has all the same tones you want to get rid of. Big mufflers and an electric cutout could be a good compromise. Of all the V6s that people speak of that sound good (Alfa v6 etc), that sound primarily is induction noise and not exhaust IMO. 

crankwalk (Forum Supporter)
crankwalk (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
3/20/22 3:38 p.m.
Patientzero said:
crankwalk (Forum Supporter) said:

You lost me at turbo cars rarely sound good.

Do you think the exhaust sounds better with a turbo or that the turbo sounds sound cool?  See the difference?  Put twin turbo's on a LS motor and the exhaust definitely sounds worse.  Once it's spooled up and the wastegates are opened up that is an entirely different story.

It all depends on what happens after the turbo. Twin turbos on an LS can sound lots of different ways if they are open downpipe with completely separate banks compared to coming back together into a single exit or dual exit exhaust. 

 

99% of twin turbo LSs have two separate downpipes sticking straight up like this one because it's easier. Those don't sound great, just like an N/A LS with separate open headers doesn't sound great. For a street car, I am not a fan.

But after the turbos if the exhaust get routed back under the car and has a single exit with a muffler or a dual with a crossover, they sound completely different and you get all of the get tones back IMO.

 

Big twins on a V8 with a full exhaust with a muffler like this is such a rarity these days: 

 

 

Gambit0117
Gambit0117 New Reader
3/20/22 4:19 p.m.

Don't know if you've done research on tuning exhausts but it also comes down to length and resonators, I was just watching a video on creating an extension to remove drone.. hope this helps 

https://youtu.be/l9CrmkIxDQU

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