maschinenbau
maschinenbau UberDork
6/8/22 10:35 a.m.
tuna55 said:

The little gimmick that sightly rolls the window down when you open the door is a little strange. I can't imagine that's necessary. 

Frameless windows is why. Supposed to keep the glass from shattering when the door is slammed shut, and helps the glass seal better. Most convertibles including my ND Miata do the same thing. 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
6/8/22 10:54 a.m.

Yeah, the window drop is pretty normal in modern cars. The Tesla will yell at you if you open the door using the mechanical release as it doesn't get the chance to drop the glass and it might damage the seals. It's intended as an emergency exit.

The self-driving preview is really for entertainment value, I don't think it brings anything useful to the party. As for the interior noise, I'd be checking tire depth first. Especially on a rental, if those rear tires are getting worn you'll get a lot of interior noise.

I think the Bolt price drop is symbolic more than meaningful, dealers will adjust the prices to meet demand. But it sure got everyone's attention and got some good press for the Bolt after the whole recall fracas. It's about time.

Spend enough time in any EV and you wonder why all the ICE vehicles make such a fuss. They're just so...restful.

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
6/8/22 11:34 a.m.

One big complaint, steering lock, can I have any? This thing turns like a long bed truck.

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
6/8/22 11:46 a.m.

Fair Point about the windows, I guess I have never driven a modern frameless window car before. I didn't know many cars that still used frameless windows. Pardon me

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
6/8/22 12:00 p.m.
tuna55 said:

One big complaint, steering lock, can I have any? This thing turns like a long bed truck.

Must be a Y thing, the turning circle is unremarkable on the 3 - as in I've never noticed it being good or bad or anything. Longer wheelbase?

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
6/8/22 1:07 p.m.

And it's returned, I was able to get an earlier flight. Most excellent rental experience. 

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
6/8/22 2:25 p.m.
Keith Tanner said:
tuna55 said:

One big complaint, steering lock, can I have any? This thing turns like a long bed truck.

Must be a Y thing, the turning circle is unremarkable on the 3 - as in I've never noticed it being good or bad or anything. Longer wheelbase?

The model 3 and model y both show turning radii above 19 ft, slightly different between them. The Bolt list of turning circle of a little over 35 ft, so a radius of 17 or so.

frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
6/8/22 2:46 p.m.
Keith Tanner said:

Yeah, the window drop is pretty normal in modern cars. The Tesla will yell at you if you open the door using the mechanical release as it doesn't get the chance to drop the glass and it might damage the seals. It's intended as an emergency exit.

The self-driving preview is really for entertainment value, I don't think it brings anything useful to the party. As for the interior noise, I'd be checking tire depth first. Especially on a rental, if those rear tires are getting worn you'll get a lot of interior noise.

I think the Bolt price drop is symbolic more than meaningful, dealers will adjust the prices to meet demand. But it sure got everyone's attention and got some good press for the Bolt after the whole recall fracas. It's about time.

Spend enough time in any EV and you wonder why all the ICE vehicles make such a fuss. They're just so...restful.

Do you believe the Bolt at $25,xxx will put any pressure on Tesla to introduce the long promised $25,000 version?  
 Also the self driving feature likely will keep some seniors driving longer.  Once they lose the freedom of the car 

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
6/8/22 2:48 p.m.

Also let's talk about the turn signal stalk. It doesn't detent. It just acts like it's in a detent, but it's not. I'm not sure if this is an advantage from a mechanical point of view, and it's fine really, but it seems like change for changes sake. It caught me off guard at first, but I figured it out after a few miles the wipers, on the other hand. I still don't love the auto wiper's opinion of when to wipe and how fast. I suppose you have too many stalks used already, so you can't add another. It's definitely weird. 

dps214
dps214 Dork
6/8/22 2:54 p.m.
maschinenbau said:
tuna55 said:

The little gimmick that sightly rolls the window down when you open the door is a little strange. I can't imagine that's necessary. 

Frameless windows is why. Supposed to keep the glass from shattering when the door is slammed shut, and helps the glass seal better. Most convertibles including my ND Miata do the same thing. 

Yes, it lets the window tuck up into the seal for a better seal and less high speed road noise. That's especially necessary on an EV where wind noise is basically the only noise the car generates at speed. The system on my old boxster was slow enough that you could open the door too fast, and if you did that the window would noticeably hang up on the seal as it opened. Similarly, in the pinnacle of unnecessary luxury, on newer porsches if you open the door with the window fully down the car will pop the window up slightly so that it's engaged in the lower seal and doesn't rattle around as the door moves.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
6/8/22 3:15 p.m.
tuna55 said:

Also let's talk about the turn signal stalk. It doesn't detent. It just acts like it's in a detent, but it's not. I'm not sure if this is an advantage from a mechanical point of view, and it's fine really, but it seems like change for changes sake. It caught me off guard at first, but I figured it out after a few miles the wipers, on the other hand. I still don't love the auto wiper's opinion of when to wipe and how fast. I suppose you have too many stalks used already, so you can't add another. It's definitely weird. 

I think there is a significant mechanical advantage for the turn signal stalk to just be a momentary switch instead of a mechanical latching device. Having it latch in place is simply how they used to work, there's no reason for them to do that anymore. It is a two position (well, four) switch, a short travel for the three-flash trigger and then over a detent to turn them on until you turn the wheel. The wipers definitely do not meet with universal acclaim. They don't bother me but I know they really bother a lot of people.

Now you've got me looking up turning circles. The E39 is just over 37', the WJ is almost 40', which is probably why I didn't find the Tesla to be noticeable.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
6/8/22 3:17 p.m.
frenchyd said:
Keith Tanner said:

Yeah, the window drop is pretty normal in modern cars. The Tesla will yell at you if you open the door using the mechanical release as it doesn't get the chance to drop the glass and it might damage the seals. It's intended as an emergency exit.

The self-driving preview is really for entertainment value, I don't think it brings anything useful to the party. As for the interior noise, I'd be checking tire depth first. Especially on a rental, if those rear tires are getting worn you'll get a lot of interior noise.

I think the Bolt price drop is symbolic more than meaningful, dealers will adjust the prices to meet demand. But it sure got everyone's attention and got some good press for the Bolt after the whole recall fracas. It's about time.

Spend enough time in any EV and you wonder why all the ICE vehicles make such a fuss. They're just so...restful.

Do you believe the Bolt at $25,xxx will put any pressure on Tesla to introduce the long promised $25,000 version?  

I don't think GM's pricing choices will have any effect on Tesla's plans. 

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
6/8/22 5:12 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Now I only had the Tesla for a day, so it's possible I might get accustomed to it, but as of today I would much prefer a stalk with a detent. 

 

As an aside I am back at home in the minivan, because I parked it in the garage so my family could use the bolt while I was gone. This thing is ridiculous in comparison.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
6/8/22 5:37 p.m.

Curious - why? Do you use the physical positioning of the stalk as part of your driving? Or is it just...weird? There is the detent that separates a three-flash from "on", just the stalk returns to center immediately instead of when you turn the wheel. Is it the click when the physical switch returns to center that you miss?

I expect the cost difference between a mechanical latching turn stalk and a momentary one is fairly significant.

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
6/8/22 5:37 p.m.

One thing I neglected to mention, regarding the turn signals a little, is the meat integration with the side cameras. When you turn the turning on you get a box with whatever that side camera sees. That's pretty brilliant. I wish all cars had such things.

 

I still can't quite believe how expensive those things are. tuna wife is begging for an EV solution to cart all six of us and the model y and model x are pretty much the only ways to do that and they're both spectacularly expensive. I'm not sure how long we can wait given gas prices rising like they are.

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
6/8/22 5:40 p.m.
Keith Tanner said:

Curious - why? Do you use the physical positioning of the stalk as part of your driving? Or is it just...weird? There is the detent that separates a three-flash from "on", just the stalk returns to center immediately instead of when you turn the wheel. Is it the click when the physical switch returns to center that you miss?

Tactile feedback. Maybe I wasn't paying attention and I don't know if I nudged the stalk or really pushed it all the way over and now I want to check. Granted, this might get smoother with more experience, but at least twice during my drive I found myself forcing the stalk to cancel, and accidentally pushing it in the other direction, leaving me flashing both cursing signals one right after the other like I couldn't make up my mind.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
6/8/22 5:40 p.m.

If you can do with a sedan instead of an SUV, there's the Model 3. It comes in a RWD version that's about $15k less expensive than the cheapest Y. They're very similar under the skin.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
6/8/22 5:42 p.m.
tuna55 said:
Keith Tanner said:

Curious - why? Do you use the physical positioning of the stalk as part of your driving? Or is it just...weird? There is the detent that separates a three-flash from "on", just the stalk returns to center immediately instead of when you turn the wheel. Is it the click when the physical switch returns to center that you miss?

Tactile feedback. Maybe I wasn't paying attention and I don't know if I nudged the stalk or really pushed it all the way over and now I want to check. Granted, this might get smoother with more experience, but at least twice during my drive I found myself forcing the stalk to cancel, and accidentally pushing it in the other direction, leaving me flashing both cursing signals one right after the other like I couldn't make up my mind.

The detent could be a little less aggressive, that would help. Going "over the edge" to full blinker is higher effort than I would specify if I were designing those switches, but on ours it's very clear if you've nudged or turned them on due to the weight of that detent. It's possible this has evolved.

dps214
dps214 Dork
6/8/22 5:44 p.m.
tuna55 said:

One thing I neglected to mention, regarding the turn signals a little, is the meat integration with the side cameras. When you turn the turning on you get a box with whatever that side camera sees. That's pretty brilliant. I wish all cars had such things.

That definitely is a feature that other vehicles have. Granted most cars probably don't have the full coverage cameras that the teslas do. But, for example, the odyssey and maybe other hondas have had a right side camera tied to the turn signal for several years now.

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
6/8/22 5:55 p.m.
Keith Tanner said:

If you can do with a sedan instead of an SUV, there's the Model 3. It comes in a RWD version that's about $15k less expensive than the cheapest Y. They're very similar under the skin.

Need at least six seats! Otherwise I'd just buy another bolt. 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
6/8/22 6:13 p.m.

Sounds like you need to buy an ID Buzz and report back :)

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
6/8/22 6:32 p.m.
Keith Tanner said:

Sounds like you need to buy an ID Buzz and report back :)

Yeah it's not available for a while yet. I'm ready for it. 

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
6/8/22 8:19 p.m.
tuna55 said:
Keith Tanner said:

Sounds like you need to buy an ID Buzz and report back :)

Yeah it's not available for a while yet. I'm ready for it. 

Or the Kia or Hyundai three row.. thing

Brake_L8 (Forum Supporter)
Brake_L8 (Forum Supporter) HalfDork
6/8/22 10:14 p.m.
Keith Tanner said:

Sounds like you need to buy an ID Buzz and report back :)

It's gonna have the same miserable HMI (all touch controls and haptic nonsense) as the ID.4 and Mk8 GTI/Golf R. Such a buzzkill, pun not intended.

Erich
Erich UberDork
6/9/22 7:12 a.m.

The 3-row Kia/Hyundai twins inspire more confidence to me than the Buzz, and probably will hit the market around the same time. 

We have been happy with our Pacifica Hybrid so far, but if it was available in 2020, we would have been looking hard at the new Toyota hybrid van even though it doesn't plug in. Chrysler has been saying its first EV will probably be a Pacifica but who knows when that will happen. 

My coworkers with the Model X have not been super happy with them, lots of problems with those rear doors.

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