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stuart in mn
stuart in mn MegaDork
8/21/20 11:05 p.m.
RichardSIA said:

The main factor to drive the decision is "What would sell best-most $ once completed"?

 

So, the point of this project is to flip the car when it's done?  If so, the engine needs to be something that appeals to the buyers.

Is there room in the chassis for the V6 engines?  I'd think the width of the frame on a Locost may be tight for a V engine. 

bentwrench
bentwrench SuperDork
8/21/20 11:07 p.m.

Of your 4 choices for best value I'd use the Suzuki, because of weight and the 5 speed.

It won't leave black marks to the next corner, but you won't have to slow down much to turn a corner. And it honors the Seven design concept ideals.

It will also leave you more foot room and fewer/easier engineering compromises

I would retain the EFI hardware and run it with a MegaSquirt.

Does the Suzuki favorably accept boost? A turbo would take care of any power deficiency.

SkinnyG (Forum Supporter)
SkinnyG (Forum Supporter) UberDork
8/21/20 11:07 p.m.

My Locost has a 4AGE, and it's a fantastic engine in this car.  Comparably, a Miata 1.6/1.8/20 would also be fine.

For my Locost #2 (still in the wings), I picked up a 2006 Ford 2.0L Duratec back in 2008, it's been in my garden shed waiting ever since.

While the Duratec was a wise and awesome choice 12 years ago, today I'd look at an Ecotec, preferably turbo.

The big factor here is mainly packaging - will it fit?

Followed by whatever rules you need to follow to whatever motorsports you want to participate in.

 

SkinnyG (Forum Supporter)
SkinnyG (Forum Supporter) UberDork
8/21/20 11:08 p.m.

Used Locosts tend to go for about $9,000-$12,000 depending on how pretty it is. There are LOTS of ugly ones.

bentwrench
bentwrench SuperDork
8/21/20 11:31 p.m.

There is a stock EcoTec motor that puts out 345 ponies!!!!

This is the motor I would use.

Incredible power to weight in a compact package that is completely tuneable.

NOHOME
NOHOME MegaDork
8/22/20 4:53 a.m.

Lemme see...

You are building it to flip.

Car was built for a mazda engine, gonna guess miata, one of the more reliable engines you can get with huge brand recognition and an awesome gearbox. People who are not you, would consider that a plus and buy the car. 

 

You want to go to the trouble of picking a different engine and making it fit and run. Lotta work,Lotta $$.

If you cant sell it as is after a bit of clean-up and parts organizing, and make a profit, then chances are you are going to lose money going further down the rabbit hole. 

Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter)
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
8/22/20 5:59 a.m.

I've seen a lot of unusual engine choices for a Locost - hell, I started building one years ago with a VW 1.8L. I agree with the posts above, a Miata engine absolutely 100% makes the most sense today. 

  • Most people are familiar with them
  • They're reliable
  • Parts are cheap
  • They're plentiful
  • They fit
  • Their use one a Locost is well-documented.

A 12A or 13B wouldn't be a bad choice, but it will also scare away some potential buyers. The only other option I'd suggest you consider would be an LS(but only with a manual). It meets most of the criteria of the Miata BP other than fitting into the chassis as easily. 

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) PowerDork
8/22/20 7:13 a.m.

Just to be different....Toyota 1NZ-FE......aluminum block and head....goofy delayed intake valve closing to reduce the compression ratio to 9.5:1 form 13:1.     That suggests that a cam change could increase the compression.....errr, maybe.

Common as dirt, too.

Zetec? 

Isuzu v-6? Really. Aluminum, light, lots of transmission choices, at your local u-pull-it.

Is this car titled? If so, I'd seriously look at a liter-bike engine, or Hayabusa. Talk about honoring the original 7 idea.

Volvo? Cheap as dirt and bulletproof.

Bimmer? I don't know them well, but they are slanted, and thus a little lower than they'd be otherwise.

Datsun truck or 510 engine? Now I'm definitely stretching.

 

 

pres589 (djronnebaum)
pres589 (djronnebaum) PowerDork
8/22/20 8:01 a.m.

To flip?  Miata 1.x BP.  Not even a discussion. 

Buick V6 of any sort doesn't even register in this conversation.  Like I read the words and my mind went blank for a solid minute before I came to.  Fun car, light weight, nice sounds, universal appeal?  No Buick V6.

 

XenaFordPrincess
XenaFordPrincess New Reader
8/22/20 8:49 a.m.

I know you said no Ford, but what about a 2.3L out of a Ranger or Mustang.   Shouldn't be too hard to find one with a 5 speed and all the electrics fairly cheaply.

bentwrench
bentwrench SuperDork
8/22/20 8:58 a.m.

2.3L Ford is too tall and twice as heavy for the power level. 

 

Here you go, everything you need and more, including a VIN & a title for $1000!

http://locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=19435&p=257403&sid=3d0e02ad0af9fa3ccf3bbcaa9f6d6dff#p257403

Ian F (Forum Supporter)
Ian F (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
8/22/20 9:02 a.m.

The idea of a 3.5L Rover V8 in a Locost is not something I needed in my head. Damn you... 

BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter)
BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
8/22/20 9:10 a.m.

If the chassis is set up for a rotary, the first thing you'd need to make sure is that you'd actually be able to lower the crank center line far enough to accommodate a boinger without messing up the rear axle mounting. Assuming that it's been built up that far.

IIRC the only Seven-esque car that came with a V6 is the Brunton Stalker, and IIRC that's generally bigger and taller than your average Locost.

NOHOME
NOHOME MegaDork
8/22/20 9:24 a.m.

If it really was built for a rotary, then other engines might be had to fit. Something about the crank being low or highor I dunno, but big pain if you wanna do miata rotary swap.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
8/22/20 9:28 a.m.

Just finish it with a carbureted rotary and move on. Easiest option, and the weird rotary has a big fan club. Might actually help with resale. 

BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter)
BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
8/22/20 9:33 a.m.

In reply to NOHOME :

"Crank" aka the eccentric shaft is much higher up in the engine in a rotary - basically in the middle of the "block".

lotusseven7 (Forum Supporter)
lotusseven7 (Forum Supporter) HalfDork
8/22/20 5:33 p.m.

I currently have a Mazda 13-B turbo in a Rotus and it fits easily and makes 255rwhp. The Rotus chassis is larger than what you are working with but a 12-A or 13-B should easily fit with a carb set-up. I'm also building an RM-8(Westfield copy) with a Honda F20C and the motor is really too tall for the application. GREAT motor and K20/24 is the same basic thing but with better reputation and support. In the past I had one powered by a Toyota 4AGE and it was a blast! I built one for my uncle with an MGB driveline and that was done on a CHEAP budget but turned out to be a great car. I believe he bought a running donor for $500 and we took the engine, trans and rear. Sold the rest for something like $200 to a friend.

 


 


 


 

lnlogauge
lnlogauge HalfDork
8/23/20 5:49 a.m.

This thread is pointless. You already decided your Buick engine, so why bother asking? Every single reply from everyone else is convincing you it's a terrible idea, while every post from you is convincing everyone what a great idea it is.

This is the wrong group to convince Miata is unreliable. 

pres589 (djronnebaum)
pres589 (djronnebaum) PowerDork
8/23/20 6:57 a.m.

At least Buick V6's sound good near their 4700 RPM redline! 

mblommel
mblommel Dork
8/23/20 9:59 a.m.

I did a bit of internet research on possible Locost powerplants and it seems like the Mazda L / Ford Duratech 2.0/2.3 is incredibly light compared to other powerplants. They are extremely inexpensive and bolt directly to the excellent manual from a NC Miata. They also have a pretty good (and expensive) aftermarket to provide more power. The only issue I believe is the height. 

Not sure if Caterham uses a dry sump or shorter wet sump to package this engine in a 7, but the results speak for themselves.

For a light car like a Locost an iron block V6 seems like a boat anchor. 

Ian F (Forum Supporter)
Ian F (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
8/23/20 10:56 a.m.

If the intent is to sell it, I'm still having trouble understanding why you don't want to use the engine the chassis was set up for?  I'm confused. frown

californiamilleghia
californiamilleghia Dork
8/23/20 11:07 a.m.

Build what the most customers will want........  Miata  or Toyota....

You are building it to sell , so which has cheap available shiny bits to put on the motor ?

did anyone make a Lotus valve cover for the Miata motor :)

frenchyd
frenchyd PowerDork
8/23/20 11:13 a.m.
bentwrench said:

Of your 4 choices for best value I'd use the Suzuki, because of weight and the 5 speed.

It won't leave black marks to the next corner, but you won't have to slow down much to turn a corner. And it honors the Seven design concept ideals.

It will also leave you more foot room and fewer/easier engineering compromises

I would retain the EFI hardware and run it with a MegaSquirt.

Does the Suzuki favorably accept boost? A turbo would take care of any power deficiency.

 

What most people don't seem to grasp is that a 5 speed isn't needed on a race car. 5th gear is almost always a overdrive. Not some thing that's needed in either Autocross or short road race tracks. Arro dynamics really hurt Lotus 7 type cars on high speed tracks. 
The few non overdriver 5 speeds out there ( and all of the ones I know about are pure race transmissions) . With Dog rings instead of syncros.  You simply cannot street drive dog rings. 

Stefan (Forum Supporter)
Stefan (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
8/23/20 11:18 a.m.
Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:

If the intent is to sell it, I'm still having trouble understanding why you don't want to use the engine the chassis was set up for?  I'm confused. frown

This.  Just because you're uneducated in the ways of the rotary, doesn't mean it isn't a pretty good match for a lightweight Lotus 7.

Many of the problems with the rotary are often traced back to people who don't take care of them (don't use pre-mix, don't drive them often enough, don't drive them hard enough, etc.)

Put a 13b in it and sell it down the road.

I won't touch your ignorance about electronics or the Mazda BP engine.  That's all on you and your obvious preconceived notions.

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