759NRNG
759NRNG PowerDork
11/5/22 11:45 a.m.

Yeah throw it in the bed of Granma Stamps new PU so he can drop it off as he swings by on  the way........your welcome 759NRNG  logistics aimin'  2 please....

Micheal you sold the door panels right?

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
11/5/22 12:24 p.m.

In reply to 759NRNG :

Actually, not yet!

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
11/11/22 8:15 p.m.

So, in an effort to make forward progress, i bought a roll of steel fuel line and clamps. Installation was impossible without kinking. 

So then i bought nicopp, an compression fittings.  Kinked, cut out kinks, added fittings and rubber hose, kinked in more places, and said berkeley this E36 M3 for now. So i have kinky fuel lines that i have lissed away over $125 and i cannot use any of. Ill probably be using ptfe braided stainless to be able to put it where i need it to go. 

So then i needed to feel lifeei have accomplished something that moved the project forward. So i consolidated the pile of intake manifolds and parts into one good one. Plugged unused holes, painted plastic and hardware, cleaned injectors and sensors, etc. 

Not much, but something. I then cleaned up and organized. If i get back to it this week, it'll be brake line stuff. 

NOT A TA
NOT A TA UltraDork
11/11/22 8:56 p.m.

I see you have the fuel lines routed to go through the firewall right behind the intake manifold. Keep in mind that sanctioning bodies want to see the fuel lines well protected by thick steel in the forward transmission area in case of an exploding flywheel or flex plate that could sever the lines.

 

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
11/11/22 8:58 p.m.

In reply to NOT A TA :

You are correct. And i HAD forgotten about that. 

jimgood
jimgood Reader
11/19/22 1:08 p.m.

Nice progress, Michael!

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
11/19/22 1:43 p.m.

So, im on vacation this next week. But front suspension is sandblasted and painted except for the lower control arms, im getting fresh wear parts lined up, and have been chipping away at brake lines and such. No pictures, but....

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
11/27/22 6:02 p.m.

The six pistons will work just fine....

TVR Scott
TVR Scott SuperDork
11/27/22 8:45 p.m.

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :

You going to rattle-can those calipers race-car-red?

I sure hope so!

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
11/28/22 5:50 a.m.

In reply to TVR Scott :

Red isn't the caliper color of choice this time. Black is. 

These are long discontinued wilwood grand national six piston calipers. I was able to find one new old stock, and one used. For 250. Can't complain there!

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
12/3/22 12:53 p.m.

brake lines run and firewall almost fitted out 

HalfFast
HalfFast New Reader
12/3/22 4:26 p.m.

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :

That "hump" in the line may cause some issues with bleeding the brakes. It's a great place to trap air. 

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
12/3/22 4:52 p.m.

In reply to HalfFast :

Theres a couple spots that i think will fight me to bleed it the first few times. But i couldn't seem to find a better answer.

I need to find the adapter for my tilton master cylinder caps to my motive bleeder. I know it exists, just have to find it and get it ordered. 

 

Also, after all day on this thing, it really doesn't look like a lot of progress yet....

HalfFast
HalfFast New Reader
12/3/22 4:55 p.m.
APEowner
APEowner UltraDork
12/3/22 6:13 p.m.
Dusterbd13-michael said:

In reply to HalfFast :

Theres a couple spots that i think will fight me to bleed it the first few times. But i couldn't seem to find a better answer.

I need to find the adapter for my tilton master cylinder caps to my motive bleeder. I know it exists, just have to find it and get it ordered. 

 

Also, after all day on this thing, it really doesn't look like a lot of progress yet....

You've got a balance bar.  Unless you've seriously messed up the master and caliper sizes you shouldn't need the valve.  If it turns out you do need that valve a better fix for the balance is to change one of the masters to a different size.

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
12/3/22 9:02 p.m.

In reply to APEowner :

Working with AngryCorvair on the system and he reccomended using the adjustable prop valve in addition to the balance bar due to piston size, pad size, rotor size, etc. I took him at hos engineer word.  Worst case is its just added weight. 

Im quitting for the day. Brake lines, masters and pedals all done, brake light switch made, all hoses and lines secured, column fixed, etc. Busy day.

APEowner
APEowner UltraDork
12/4/22 6:12 a.m.

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :

I'm not going to argue with Angry.  Both because arguing with someone named Angry seams like a bad idea and, because he's probably forgotten more about designing brake systems than I ever knew.  

Angry, if you've got a moment I could you post why you made that recommendation?  

rustomatic
rustomatic HalfDork
12/4/22 10:43 a.m.

The dual-master thing is indeed tough to figure out.  You could get everything right, then be thrown off by pedal ratio.  While I could have saved myself some sweat by learning/doing some math (basic research), I probably have benefited from screwing up on picking master sizes (weird line jogs not withstanding) in my system.  Essentially, the main result usually winds up a reality that lies in picking the smallest masters possible.  

Somebody's calculation probably revealed that your rear brakes would be overpowered/overpowering (massive calipers + relatively small master?), hence the prop valve in combination with the balance bar.

There will still be tons to figure out once the car is rolling, but that's kind of the point, right?

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
12/4/22 11:13 a.m.

In reply to rustomatic :

Correct. And also something about the truck arms play a factor. Thought is that gross adjustment with prop valve, fine tune with balance bar. 

Im starting with 7/8 front and rear based upon all the math and pedal ratios. The rear calipers are gigantic, but due to the "is what it is" factor, were running them. 

If i get back to this car today, ill finalize the steering column install, then onto the fuel cell build out.

APEowner
APEowner UltraDork
12/4/22 1:50 p.m.
Dusterbd13-michael said:

In reply to rustomatic :

Correct. And also something about the truck arms play a factor...

Im starting with 7/8 front and rear based upon all the math and pedal ratios. The rear calipers are gigantic, but due to the "is what it is" factor, were running them...

Truck arms have a real propensity for wheel hop under braking.  Or, even lifting of the throttle so that may be a factor.

I suspect the "is what it is" factor is the biggest reason Angry recommended the valve.

I've never had to run one on a bias bar setup but I've always had the luxury of sizing the whole system from scratch.

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
12/10/22 10:06 a.m.

Andre nelson once said something to the effect of "if you have five minutes, do a five minute job"

This mornings was getting the lower control arms cleaned and ready for paint and reassembley. 

Still have to paint, clean and re-lube the mononalls, and then put it back together. 

Oh, and figure out where i put the new ball joints. 

HalfFast
HalfFast New Reader
12/10/22 2:20 p.m.

For reference, here is Wilwoods master cylinder calculator 

https://www.wilwood.com/PDF/Flyers/fl162.pdf

 

more maths https://www.joesracing.com/master-cylinder-math/

on edit.  I encourage you to do the brake math.  Steering and brakes are the only thing that needs to be right on a car.  

HalfFast
HalfFast New Reader
12/10/22 2:53 p.m.
APEowner said:
Dusterbd13-michael said:

In reply to rustomatic :

Correct. And also something about the truck arms play a factor...

Im starting with 7/8 front and rear based upon all the math and pedal ratios. The rear calipers are gigantic, but due to the "is what it is" factor, were running them...

Truck arms have a real propensity for wheel hop under braking.  Or, even lifting of the throttle so that may be a factor.

Oh yes they do...  A super cut of my first track weekend in my truck 

https://youtu.be/gJSHAVviffA

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter)
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
12/10/22 7:14 p.m.

Using an adjustable prop with a balance bar allows you to tune the system closer to neutral balance over a wider range. I'll post a graph comparing balance bar vs bar plus adjustable prop when I get back to work next week.

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
12/11/22 5:24 p.m.

all the control arms are sandblasted painted the mono balls are cleaned and regreased new ball joints are in and it's finger tight. Other side is next.

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