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jimbbski
jimbbski SuperDork
5/19/21 9:52 a.m.

In reply to Rodan :

The wheels on the car in the picture are only to hold it off the ground.  A friend gave them to him, they had been on a Mekur.  He has a set of 13X6 inch wheels that we will have some 205/60X13 tires mounted on them this spring. 

Rodan
Rodan SuperDork
5/19/21 9:56 a.m.

In reply to Pushrod :

This is why I believe it was a 2L...

It will definitely be a V6 or V8.  I have plenty of 4 cylinder fun with our Miatas.  cheeky

Though I do love a 302 (drag raced Fox 5.0s for a while), I'm leaning towards a 6 as a nod towards the Cologne racers.

Rodan
Rodan SuperDork
5/19/21 10:02 a.m.

In reply to therealpinto :

I've been following your build, excellent work!  yes

There are a couple of differential options for the Miata rear subframe (8.8, Getrag, etc), but it gets pricey as there are only a few sources for the axles, hubs, etc.  An 8.8 straight axle is easier/cheaper, and with the right setup should perform well.  A torque arm is a definite possibility.  It definitely won't have a rear seat, so floor mods are not a concern.

Regardless, all of that is several years down the road... plenty of time to mull it over and consider every option. wink

jimbbski
jimbbski SuperDork
5/19/21 3:52 p.m.
Rodan said:

In reply to therealpinto :

I've been following your build, excellent work!  yes

There are a couple of differential options for the Miata rear subframe (8.8, Getrag, etc), but it gets pricey as there are only a few sources for the axles, hubs, etc.  An 8.8 straight axle is easier/cheaper, and with the right setup should perform well.  A torque arm is a definite possibility.  It definitely won't have a rear seat, so floor mods are not a concern.

Regardless, all of that is several years down the road... plenty of time to mull it over and consider every option. wink

I know a few owners of V8 Capri's  and if you don't do burn outs on a regular basis or go to the strip, the stock Atlas rear end works fine. Saying that,  my friends and I did swap a Ford 8 inch rear in to a Capri with a very healthy 2.0L. It sported a 4.63:1 gear and we welded the spider gears for a locked rear end. We ran it only in auto-x's. The 8 inch is nearly as strong as the 8.8 but lighter, and you can swap gear ratios the same way as it's bigger brother the Ford 9 inch. 

Wicked93gs
Wicked93gs Reader
5/19/21 9:35 p.m.

I would be interested in the front seats if you plan to ditch them. I also have a complete Capri console(minus the latch for the cubby lid) if you need. You would be interested to know there is a guy in the UK who swapped a Ford 3.7L in an early Capri already....with Jenvey ITBs no less.

Rodan
Rodan SuperDork
5/20/21 4:22 a.m.

In reply to Wicked93gs :

I was just looking at your Mustang thread today... great project!

I saw the video on the Capri with the 3.7 linked in your thread, sounds incredible.  The Jenvey setup isn't cheap, but I wonder if it would be less of a hassle than going custom?

Where are you located?  I most likely won't be using the seats, but it will be a while before I'm ready to get rid of them, and I expect they would be prohibitively expensive to ship.

Wicked93gs
Wicked93gs Reader
5/20/21 5:37 a.m.

In reply to Rodan :

Oh, I am sure the Jenvey setup is a lot less of a hassle. I am using BMW M5 ITBs on my 3.7L...but it wasn't exactly a fast process to get a functional setup and the car isn't yet on the road(even if it does start and idle now). My whole decision to go ITB though was driven by the fact I had a shock tower brace I have to keep and the factory manifold would not allow that. For that matter, I still haven't got filters on my setup, its a tricky process really.

I am in TN....the seats wouldn't be all that bad to ship freight assuming they were on a single pallet(I ship things all the time through my work, I would expect about $150 shipping or so for a single pallet). I am not in a huge hurry for the seats anyway, but whenever you are ready to get rid of them, I will take them assuming a decent price.

rustomatic
rustomatic Reader
5/20/21 6:32 a.m.

Dig the plans here!  My first legally driven car was a '77 Capri with a 2.3/4 spd.  It seemed to be the heaviest small car ever made, but it was definitely post-peak Capri.  It was enough to get me a license . . .

Rodan
Rodan SuperDork
5/20/21 2:08 p.m.

In reply to rustomatic :

The Mk1 V6 in Euro trim was specc'd at ~2300lbs in 1973.  I do remember my old '74 having a very solid feel.  Much more substantial than my 280Z.

Rodan
Rodan SuperDork
5/20/21 2:15 p.m.

Did some rust removal testing this morning.  Rust-oleum Rust Remover Gel vs. Apple cider vinegar.  Scuffed down to metal with a stripping disc on my angle grinder.  15 minutes application for each, then cleaned and scuffed with a green scotchbrite pad.

Raw surface:

Down to metal with a stripping disc:

Result:

Although the Rust-oleum had the more difficult rust, IMHO, it appears that the vinegar did just as well, if not slightly better.  Which is good, because it's non-toxic, and a lot cheaper!  A quick shot of primer shows a pretty good surface...

I'll probably pull the trunk lid next and do a longer exposure test with the vinegar, and shoot some real sealer primer on it and see how it turns out.

Wicked93gs
Wicked93gs Reader
5/20/21 6:10 p.m.

I recommend some epoxy primer myself. I shot a base of epoxy primer followed by acrylic enamel for non-visible panels(undercarriage, interior, engine bay, etc) and I doubt much anything can get through that surface, haven't seen even a scratch on it yet...which says something because I have had tools, wire harness, etc sliding around on the floor as I work inside the car. Of course the acrylic enamel is a catalyzed paint with a hardener required...but in comparison with the dash panel that I painted with a lacquer from a spray can, its night and day...the lacquer scratches if I look at it wrong.

Rodan
Rodan SuperDork
5/20/21 8:55 p.m.

I have all the equipment to do 'real' paint, it's just a PITA to drag it all out for spraying one panel at a time.  And at this point, I'm just doing cleanup and preservation/protection.  The real body work and paint will be a couple years down the road.  And being in AZ, I can be a little lazy compared to some places.  wink

Anyone tried the catalyzed epoxy primer in cans from Eastwood or SprayMax?

Wicked93gs
Wicked93gs Reader
5/21/21 10:37 a.m.

In reply to Rodan :

I used a can in areas that I wouldn't be able to reach later with a spray gun(inside the cowl, under the jacking rails, etc) It worked fine...but the cans are fairly small so they really are not suitable for doing any large areas. For that matter, you can actually roll on the catalyzed epoxy primer if you want, considering you are just going to go over it later with primer sealer, filler, paint, etc anyway...the only real issue with rolling it on is that it doesn't get into nooks and crannies real well that way.

bluej (Forum Supporter)
bluej (Forum Supporter) PowerDork
5/21/21 11:38 a.m.
Wicked93gs said:

I would be interested in the front seats if you plan to ditch them. I also have a complete Capri console(minus the latch for the cubby lid) if you need. You would be interested to know there is a guy in the UK who swapped a Ford 3.7L in an early Capri already....with Jenvey ITBs no less.

I came to suggest the newer 3.7 v6. I'm going to go listen to that video right now!

Rodan
Rodan SuperDork
5/21/21 12:01 p.m.

In reply to bluej (Forum Supporter) :

Here's that video for posterity:

So far the 3.7 is the leading contender.  Cheap, easy to find, makes good power stock.  I think one with ITBs and good exhaust will sound spectacular.  If someone comes up with some cams that will make it rev to 8000, it'll be perfect. cheeky

Rodan
Rodan SuperDork
5/22/21 4:54 a.m.

Speaking of 8000rpm, here's some more aural inspiration...

 

 

TRX
TRX New Reader
5/22/21 1:33 p.m.

I did two with a small block Ford, and one for my wife with a small block Chevy.  The Ford is practically a drop-in, weighs very little more than the Cologne V6, and is much, much cheaper to rebuild or modify than the Cologne.

My wife's car used a Chevy Monza rear end and I redrilled the front hubs to take the Chevy wheels.  The two Ford V8s both used 3.22 axles from V6 cars.  I never managed to lay my hands on one of the semi-mythical 3.08 rear ends from a Capri II.

Team Blitz sells V8 mount kits.  Welding up your own is no big deal.  I did my Capris long ago, before I had a welder; I made the mounts with a drill and hacksaw, propped the engine on chunks of wood, held it in place with chains and turnbuckles, and very carefully drove to a local muffler shop that obligingly welded the mounts to the (de-horned) crossmember.  

The big problem back in the day was the driveshaft.  The two Fords, I kept the carrier bearing setup and eventually found a truck-and-tractor shop that would mate the large-diameter stub with the yoke to the small-diameter stub with the carrier bearing.  Back then nobody could match a U-joint and yoke that would fit the Sachs rear; I suspect that might not be a problem now.  The Chevy car used an ordinary 1-piece Chevy driveshaft cut to length.

 

The usual Capri front-end shimmy is due to a worn rack or jellied/missing rack bushings, and usually the steering coupler.  

Cars with AC usually had a hole cut in the front valance panel to admit extra air for the AC condenser.  Sometimes they had several large round holes instead of a slot.  I think the AC was a dealer-installed thing on the earlier cars.  The V8s I built on non-AC-cars always ran on the warm side until I cut a hole like the AC cars.

The Ford V8s are small, but they have a long water pump and even with the radiator moved far forward, there's very little space.  The 5.0 Expeditions used a shorter front cover and pump assembly, if you happen to come across one.   It's not necessary, but it would make things more convenient.

There's a plastic bushing on the steering-wheel end of the column that wears out, letting the wheel move about.  I used to make replacements out of old coffee can lids; cut them out with scissors, leaving some tabs to fold out so the bushing doesn't slide down inside the column.  Each one lasted a couple of years on daily drivers.

Alignment problems can be from the steering arms; they're sort of spindly.  If you have the front end apart, unbolt them from the struts and compare them to each other; they should be mirror images.  If not, one is bent.   Every couple of years my wife managed to find a pothole big enough to bend a steering arm; didn't matter which of the Capris she was driving at the time.

If you can find one of the old Traction Master 1-1/4" front sway bars, it will eliminate most of the body roll, and since that reduces roll steer, it doesn't add understeer.

I put Panhard rods on the the last few Capris I built.  You wouldn't think the leaf springs have enough sideways slop to affect steering, but they *do*.  A low Panhard will lower the roll center, which also helps reduce some of the built-in roll understeer.  Theoretically a low Panhard will increase body roll; in practice, not enough to really notice.  

Stock Capri front brakes will make *one* maximum-effort stop from 140mph unless you have fancy aftermarket racing pads.

Your car was a four cylinder; that's good; the brake booster is offset closer to the fender than the V6 cars.  But the V6 cars have wider drums and shoes in the back.

Walton's Capri book blathers on about front springs.  All US-market Capris, from the early 2.0s to the last 2.8s, have the same wire diameter, length, and number of turns; that is, they're all exactly the same.   I measured several dozen cars.  The 1600 cars had different springs, though.

GPz11 (Forum Supporter)
GPz11 (Forum Supporter) Reader
5/22/21 1:46 p.m.

You could also go with SN95 or MN12 302 front accessories. They are similar in length to the Explorer set up. I’m running SN95 set up in my XR4Ti.

Rodan
Rodan SuperDork
5/22/21 4:50 p.m.

I was digging around looking for one of my suspension books, and look what I found...

Hard to believe I've kept this since the early 80s.  I guess my wife is right... I really am a pack rat! cheeky

pkingham (Forum Supporter)
pkingham (Forum Supporter) Reader
5/22/21 5:10 p.m.
TRX said:

Cars with AC usually had a hole cut in the front valance panel to admit extra air for the AC condenser.  Sometimes they had several large round holes instead of a slot.  I think the AC was a dealer-installed thing on the earlier cars.  The V8s I built on non-AC-cars always ran on the warm side until I cut a hole like the AC cars.

 

Thanks for explaining something I never understood.  I had a parts car I used to fix accident damage on my ITA race car, and it had the hole in the valance.  I had always assumed the race car had that hole as a (not legal for ITA) modification for racing, and it never made sense to me that the street car had a similar but not identical hole.  

JoeTR6
JoeTR6 Dork
5/22/21 7:51 p.m.
Rodan said:

I was digging around looking for one of my suspension books, and look what I found...

Hard to believe I've kept this since the early 80s.  I guess my wife is right... I really am a pack rat! cheeky

I must also be a pack rat.

Wicked93gs
Wicked93gs Reader
5/24/21 6:02 a.m.

Speaking of A/C, that Console I have has the A/C option....or I assume its an A/C option with the little removable vent box.

 

I wonder what that Capri with ITBs would sound like at a lower RPM...mine is far...lopier, but this is 650RPM:

Also....my timing is somewhat off here, I haven't taken a new video recently simply because I am bogged down in wiring.

 

therealpinto
therealpinto Reader
5/24/21 7:06 a.m.

That´s a console I have never seen before!

I have mostly tried to learn about MkII Capri A/C, here in Europe that was never available but I want it for my next project. From what I have gathered there were different A/C systems, some were pure dealer fit where everything was "aftermarket" but there were also factory fitted ones that had the A/C controls integrated into the dash panel.

The 1974 MkI twin turbo we built years ago was based on a US model, it had large front panel cutout for the "5 mph bumpers" that the Euro cars don´t have. Perfect for a Sierra Cosworth intercooler :-)

Team Blitz will still sell the larger diameter ARBs, that would be a priority for me.

Gustaf

Wicked93gs
Wicked93gs Reader
5/24/21 7:56 a.m.

In reply to therealpinto :

Well, the vent box in my console has a stamped Ford logo in it...so I assume its a true factory option.(you can vaguely see it above the cubby). Funny you mention the Sierra intercooler...I have one of those sitting on the shelf too...well, an aftermarket one anyway.

Rodan
Rodan SuperDork
5/26/21 12:15 p.m.

I've started working on measurements for a possible Miata subframe swap.  We think of the Miata as a small car, and in the modern world it is, but it's still wider than a Mk1 Capri!  The front track width of an NA Miata is about 2.5" wider than the Capri, and the rear is 4.5" wider.  Bigger difference in the rear because a Miata is a bit unusual in having a rear track wider than the front.

I have our NA up on stands and the wheels off for a diff swap, so I took the opportunity to measure hub widths.

These are a little off from stock due to the Wilwoods and spacers, but the spacers are a known number so I can eliminate them from calculations.

Measured Capri numbers are still unknown, but I'll take measurements when I have the opportunity to get in the garage and on stands.  Probably in a month or two.  For now, using internet numbers for track and wheel offset, I can calculate a working number.

NA Miata subframes front and rear will add 5" and 6.5" to the respective hub to hub measurements.  This should be in the realm of 'doable' with the big 3rd gen Cologne flares.  I'm currently running numbers for NC subframes... bigger stock brakes, stronger wheel bearings, and 5 lug hubs (easier to get custom wheels made).

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