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JoeTR6
JoeTR6 HalfDork
3/15/18 6:50 a.m.

I like Triumph as much as anyone, but I really like the idea of the EcoBoost swap.  I hope you can make it fit.

USERNAMETAKEN
USERNAMETAKEN New Reader
3/15/18 7:44 a.m.

In reply to JoeTR6 :

Need a builder TR6 block with some old race parts?

TR4 4 spd transmission with overdrive?

They'll be coming out soon...

JoeTR6
JoeTR6 HalfDork
3/15/18 8:20 a.m.
USERNAMETAKEN said:

In reply to JoeTR6 :

Need a builder TR6 block with some old race parts?

TR4 4 spd transmission with overdrive?

They'll be coming out soon...

I'm looking to reduce my stockpile of TR parts, but thanks anyway.  Someone here should be able to make good use of that stuff.

Joe Gearin
Joe Gearin Associate Publisher
3/15/18 10:50 a.m.
USERNAMETAKEN said:

Just spoke with a guy at Sports-Car Craftsmen, a local British car shop, about the engine.  He didn't quite know what to make of a turbo TR6 engine pushing 12 psi on pump gas.  Certainly not something he sees day to day!

He said they would treat the engine as a core and expect it would need everything done, and gave me a budgetary higher than what I paid for the whole car.  And that was a stock rebuild, not even getting in to what would be needed for a turbo application.

He was helpful in telling me values for a rebuildable motor and for the TR4 trans/overdrive.  Evidently the overdrive is the valuable object.

I said I was leaning toward a new driveline, and he agreed that as long as it was reasonable and "tasteful" it would likely not hurt the value at all.  And the 5 spd or 6 spd trans would make for a much more enjoyable experience.  Informative discussion.

The guys at Sports Car Craftsmen are fantastic.  Truly a great shop, with friendly, knowledgable folks!  

USERNAMETAKEN
USERNAMETAKEN New Reader
3/15/18 11:40 a.m.

In reply to Joe Gearin :

Agreed.  They seemed pretty with it, and a good resource to have.  The guy was super willing to take the time discuss the car, even though I'm not going to park it over there for a full restoration.

USERNAMETAKEN
USERNAMETAKEN New Reader
3/15/18 11:51 a.m.

Now for something completely different!  I started on some interior stuff.  Managed to get the passenger's seat out.  Clearly there's been a bit of water in there at some point, as the bolts were terribly rusted.  The carpet was so deteriorated that it looked like it was competing in the mold-Olympics.  I literally vacuumed it out of the car - it just crumbled under the thundering power of the shop-vac.  The seat bolts actually did unthread, though they won't be getting wire-brushed and installed down the road...

I really like the look of these old seats, so I'm planning to take this one to upholstery shops to see about a rebuild.  Probably will carefully remove the covers and fix up the frames myself.  Save a few bucks there.

I don't think this slider is going to function after a little clean-up:

Note the nasty chunk of carpet that came along for the ride!  One of my friends said she'd be snorting bleach after that!

Seat-well all cleaned up.  Looks pretty good!  I'm ridiculously happy that the car is fiberglass.  If this had be steel, there would be nothing left!

badwaytolive
badwaytolive New Reader
3/15/18 12:59 p.m.

Gah-

Must feel good to get all that out, though.

yupididit
yupididit SuperDork
3/15/18 6:58 p.m.

Ugh I wanted this car so bad!

USERNAMETAKEN
USERNAMETAKEN New Reader
3/15/18 7:58 p.m.

More measurements:

The Ecoboost is starting to look like a really tight squeeze.  It's tall and the pan is deeper than the TR6.  Width is ok, but not great.  The only saving grace might be moving back in the engine bay.

I'm looking again at the Mustang 3.7 V6.  I've not found a good dimensioned drawing of one yet, but the crude ones I've found look very promising.  It's wide at the top (no surprise there) but shorter in height and oil pan depth.  I found an aircraft guy who weighed one dry, and his number was 205 lb.

And something about a Ford V6 in a TVR M-series...

yupididit
yupididit SuperDork
3/15/18 10:08 p.m.

In reply to USERNAMETAKEN :

Apparently the 3.7 takes to boost very well. 

therealpinto
therealpinto Reader
3/16/18 2:29 a.m.

I like the discussions on power plants here, but it also scares me a bit. Especially the Mustang 3.7 - it is a drive train I am contemplating for an upcoming build of a European Ford Granada (that would be my summer tow car).

While I am trying to fight of the urge to build one "now" I sense that the discussions and facts here may be very useful for me. The Granada had a Cologne 2.8 V6 from factory so I feel a bond of sorts. Even though you almost could park the TVR in the cargo area of a Granada estate :-)

Gustaf

Dammit
Dammit New Reader
3/16/18 4:18 a.m.

If you want leftfield-but-understood I vote for Volvo/Ford 2.3 litre straight 5 with tdo4hl 20T, mated to a whiteblock M90 manual transmission.

Stick with the 16T (although thinking about it I believe you chaps only got the 15g) for lower but more instant power, then revel in the noise.

 

NOHOME
NOHOME UltimaDork
3/16/18 5:26 a.m.

Every time the 3.7 is brought up as a swap candidate, I think of a guy on the Miata swap forum who is several years into trying to get his to start. Can they be run standalone without all the body control modules from the donor?

 

Pete

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
3/16/18 7:40 a.m.
NOHOME said:

Every time the 3.7 is brought up as a swap candidate, I think of a guy on the Miata swap forum who is several years into trying to get his to start. Can they be run standalone without all the body control modules from the donor?

 

Pete

In theory, the only think on the 3.7 that an MS woud have difficulty is the twin independent VCT.  The electric throttle can be replaced with normal, and the fuel system is normal.  To make the MS better, the 3.7 comes with WB sensors to start with.

But is there anyone out there taking the original module and turning off the outside needed sensors?  And/or replacing the ones that are needed?

USERNAMETAKEN
USERNAMETAKEN New Reader
3/16/18 9:22 a.m.

It is doable, though it seems to be a much more uncommon swap.

FC guys doing it here:

https://www.rx7club.com/other-engine-conversions-non-v-8-118/ford-3-7l-v6-fc-1080545/

Fox-body here:

https://www.v6mustang.com/threads/3-7-swap-in-a-fox-body-what-are-your-thoughts-folks.267195/page-4

Seems like the controls are factory ecu with all the unnecessary features removed by a flash tuner.  The FC thread mentions HP Tuning, and the Fox one says the retune can be done with an SCT controller.  I've no experience with either, so I'll add that to my list of time-wasting research.

I'm going to get  in touch with the Ford Racing people to see if there is any chance for an engine-swap harness like they've done for the Ecoboost and the Coyote.   Who knows?

Scott

Stefan
Stefan MegaDork
3/16/18 9:23 a.m.

Can't you modify the oil pan to gain the clearance you need?  That's a pretty common thing to do on some engine swaps.

fidelity101
fidelity101 UltraDork
3/16/18 9:45 a.m.
Dirtydog said:

Flea Bay 

KohR Motorsports

2015 Mustng Ecoboost Engine Trans Subframe Cooling Package Etc.

Price:

 

US $1,495.00

THAT IS SO INCREDIBLY CHEAP!!!!!!!

 

USERNAMETAKEN
USERNAMETAKEN New Reader
3/16/18 9:55 a.m.
Stefan said:

Can't you modify the oil pan to gain the clearance you need?  That's a pretty common thing to do on some engine swaps.

Almost certainly I could, and then I could lower the entire engine.  Or maybe a Ranger pan would be shallower.  Not giving up on it, just looking to other options as well.

USERNAMETAKEN
USERNAMETAKEN New Reader
3/16/18 6:54 p.m.

Anyone have an NC Miata transmission sitting around?  I'd like some measurements - overall length and distance to shifter.  Wouldn't mind knowing the width and height either, but those aren't my main interest.

Any thoughts on 6 spd vs 5 spd?  My only Miata was an NA 5 spd, and I thought it had nice ratios and never yearned for another gear.  Does it make a big difference?

Stefan
Stefan MegaDork
3/16/18 7:23 p.m.

In reply to USERNAMETAKEN :

Nope.  The 6-Speed isn’t as good as the 5-Speed and you have to be careful of the final drive gearing.

USERNAMETAKEN
USERNAMETAKEN New Reader
3/16/18 8:22 p.m.

In reply to Stefan :

So the gearing ends up too low in 1st, right?  I always hear about these throw-away first gears on 6 spds.

I could address this, since I'll likely replace the Triumph diff - ya know - as long as I'm in there...

Crackers
Crackers Dork
3/16/18 8:38 p.m.

In reply to fidelity101 :

Oh, E36 M3! That may have just caused some left turns! 

Stefan
Stefan MegaDork
3/16/18 9:52 p.m.

In reply to USERNAMETAKEN :

There’s that and the shifting isn’t nearly as good as the 5-Speed box.  Though the later versions were better than they were in the MSM, fluid choice and driver skill plays into it as well.

JoeTR6
JoeTR6 HalfDork
3/17/18 5:19 a.m.
USERNAMETAKEN said:

In reply to Stefan :

So the gearing ends up too low in 1st, right?  I always hear about these throw-away first gears on 6 spds.

I could address this, since I'll likely replace the Triumph diff - ya know - as long as I'm in there...

Did TVR use the same mounting tabs as Triumph for the diff?  If so, you could simply buy a conversion kit from Richard Good to use a Nissan R200 diff.  Limited slip and a choice of ratios.

http://www.goodparts.com/shop/index.php?categoryID=16

USERNAMETAKEN
USERNAMETAKEN New Reader
3/17/18 6:59 a.m.

In reply to JoeTR6 :

Oh my.  Thank you for that!

I only just pulled the exhaust off yesterday, so I got a little better look at the diff.  My understand is that TVR had multiple sub-frames for different diffs.  So the 1600M got a Spitfire rear end, and the 2500M and 3000M got the bigger TR6 unit.  The sub-frames let them build different models easily.

Earlier model, but when the Griffiths were imported into the US and got their 302 swap those would get a Corvette rear end.

Probably about time to make up a gear ratio spreadsheet...

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