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jh36
jh36 Reader
5/6/17 1:15 p.m.

In reply to CrookedRacer:

The fuel line section was just the from the tank to the pump....simple!
The shift light is an Autometer 5344 and it was very simple. Ground, hot and a lead to the positive coil terminal. Literally 10 minutes and done! It has an integrated tach which can be disabled and three levels of brightness on the shift light. I mounted it to my gauge pod but may relocate it after I try it live.

jh36
jh36 Reader
5/6/17 1:17 p.m.

jh36
jh36 Reader
5/22/17 6:25 p.m.

I'm going to call this thread a wrap! The car ran for utcc....not super fast but we kept dialing it in over the weekend. 2:20 on Friday, 2:19 on Saturday and finished with a 2:17.8 Sunday and competitive in PTE, swapping leads with a couple of quick miatas. Very fun racing and an excellent weekend seeing the GRM staff. Also hanging out with my favorite event manager, Chris Cobetto...he does throw a spectacular weekend party through NASA Mid-Atlantic.

And the times, while not earth shattering, are good for me and the old girl.

jh36
jh36 Reader
5/22/17 6:31 p.m.

Actually, one last note....we just started taking down a sunroof delete 944 in hopes of an LS swap project. New thread coming if we stay on course.

Billy_Bottle_Caps
Billy_Bottle_Caps Dork
5/23/17 9:15 a.m.

Please, stay the course

jh36
jh36 Reader
5/23/17 1:13 p.m.

In reply to Billy_Bottle_Caps:

Thanks for the encouragement!!!! Stay tuned!

jh36
jh36 Reader
7/7/17 12:33 p.m.

OK, I'm going to keep this thread alive...technically, "next steps for 944" still works. #36 (for the moment) is in a good spot. We are making decent power, we are finishing weekends without complete mayhem and actually racing the thing. So...my oldest son's red 944/sunroof delete '83 sits next to my shop with a blown motor. Earlier, I pondered an LS swap. Now I'm thinking that building a second (maybe backup, or maybe new primary) race car, instead of a fun street car, is a really excellent idea. We are running #36 in PTE. This is a car that originally was built to run in 944Spec. It now has a few pieces of goodness on it that kick it out of the Spec club, but it works pretty nicely in Performance Touring E.
Dial back the hands of time a couple of years, and I was running NASA GTS-1. That class dried up in my neighborhood. GTS2 is kicking along nicely in the MidAtlantic though. SO...... The rules for GTS allow a derivative Porsche motor in my 944. An Audi or VW is completely ok for the series. This is a power to weight ratio series, so somewhere in the 180-200HP range with equal amounts of torque would work well....my car naturally wants to weigh in with me around 2500. I am not restricted on tire width so I would probably make a homespun widebody and run some turbo 911 wheels I have with some wide rubber.
I have seen a lot of older posts with some 5 cylinder Audi swaps from 90's Quattro's, and the current popular setup seems to be the 1.8T. Keeping with my natural proclivity, I want to make this an excellent, reasonably priced project that will end up being a race car that will be reliable and competitive with the bevy of E36 M3's out there crushing GTS2 in MidAtlantic. Again I'm not looking to make 500 HP and the engine must be Porsche, VW or Audi. I need to stay in the 14.5:1 ratio for GTS2. So for me, at 2600 lbs, 180HP is legal. I've seen a few A4's locally with drivelines claimed to be excellent for under a grand. I need to bone up on exactly what motors came in what cars in what year....but I figure this is a good place to get the party started.

Pete Gossett
Pete Gossett MegaDork
7/7/17 1:35 p.m.

In reply to jh36:

I've long been fascinated by the Audi turbo-5 swap into a 944/924, but I'd also be somewhat concerned if the extra weight in front of the axle centerline from any Audi 5-cylinder would change the balance of the car? I'm sure there is enough discussion online about it to determine whether it's a non-issue or something to reconsider. It sure is a smooth engine though, and the extra torque would be nice!

Sparkydog
Sparkydog New Reader
7/7/17 1:43 p.m.

In reply to jh36:

You probably already know about these builds, but in case not maybe there is some useful info for you.

Audi 20vt + 944 Linky

Audi AAN + 944 Linky

And then I think I've seen a (modern) VW motor transplant thread on either Pelican or Rennlist but couldn't find it.

Stefan
Stefan MegaDork
7/7/17 1:49 p.m.

The Audi I5 is about the same weight as a 944 Turbo motor and it's really fairly compact for a 5-cylinder. Going to manual steering should basically balance out any weight differences as would going to fixed headlights.

The bonus is that the bellhousing used is a 924 Turbo part combined with an Audi bellhousing spacer, it all nearly bolts in with the oil pan, motor mounts and exhaust manifold needing sorting.

The VW 1.8T is a newer swap that requires a custom bellhousing, exhaust, motor mounts, etc. it is a well known and easily acquired motor though.

Stefan
Stefan MegaDork
7/7/17 1:51 p.m.

The Audi 7A was a more commonly produced 20V I5 that made 170hp out of the box. A little extra compression gained from a thinner headgasket and you should reach your power goal.

simon_C
simon_C New Reader
7/7/17 2:06 p.m.

Def go with the audi 5 cylinder. So well suited for a 944. or any AUDI based motor, (audi v8, v6, inline 5, etc) will go in like was previously said.

jh36
jh36 Reader
7/7/17 2:37 p.m.

In reply to Stefan: Sounds like the I5 is more my speed. I will have a manual rack and there will be no headlights....just covers. What is the engine designation, or what model(s) have it? Is this the 7A?Is this the late Quattro engine? Also...the Audi bellhousing spacer...do you have a part number or know where that can be identified?

Stefan
Stefan MegaDork
7/7/17 3:31 p.m.

In reply to jh36:

7A is the naturally aspirated version of the 20V I5, so that's the engine designation.

Audi 5-cylinders

There was a site that laid all of this out, but its gone. I'll see if I can find the part number, since they blocked the archive capability :/

I have the bellhousing spacer, the 924 Turbo bellhousing and the proper intake manifold. I could part with them for the right price since I doubt I'll get to the swap any time soon.

I'll just leave this here:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/I27WmAwNWNI

and this:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/v90kFsd7kaE

simon_C
simon_C New Reader
7/7/17 4:06 p.m.

the bellhousing spacer is the ones used on the twin turbo v6 is the s4.

ANY audi 5 cylinder from the 70s to the mid 90s will work, so just use whatever you can find. Turbo is available, as are 10v and 20v versions. Typically found in 4000s, 5000s, 80s, 90s, 100s, early S4s, etc. Even VW Quantums had basic 10v NA ones.


Youll need:

924 turbo or 931 bellhousing

audi bellhousing spacer P/N 01E103551C


and if you don't want to blow up transmissions, youll want to find a 928 or audi turbodiesel transaxle. If you have a later 944, you should already have the audi style trans where the torque tube bolts to the former audi "bellhousing" on the transaxle. If you have the early style transaxle, where the torque tube just bolts to the main body of the trans, youll need to swap to the newer style torque tube to run the 928 or audi TD trans. You can find the audi 5 cyl TD FWD trans on car-part.com, search for 1983 (only year avail in the US) Audi 5000. Select MT, Diesel when prompted and youll see some results.


Also, if you do end up doing this, can you please thoroughly document it? most of the old information out there is gone. Most of this is what I retained from memory from when I was planning a very similar project.

Stefan
Stefan MegaDork
7/7/17 4:40 p.m.

The Porsche 5-speed "dogleg" transaxle is actually stronger than the Audi 5-speed. Keep the linkage in good shape, use good fluid and drive it properly and it will work just fine behind V8's, let alone an I5.

I don't know about the Audi 4-speed, but its essentially the same as the Audi 5-speed, but shorter and can be swapped out for the 5-speed.

None of the 944's came with anything other than the Audi 5-speed.

The only trick with the 10V engines is the difference in pistons, etc. so you may get to swap those out to get the compression where you want it. You CAN fit a 10V SOHC motor in a 944, but its damned tight on the passenger side.

I have a buddy who's having a shop building a rally car for him based around a brand new solid top 944 shell with a 20VT in it. I'll see if I can find some of the Facebook posts, its a great project to follow :)

Here's the shop where its being built: Dave Clark Motorsports

You have to scroll a bit to find the posts, but its a fun scavenger hunt :)

jh36
jh36 Reader
7/7/17 4:53 p.m.

In reply to Stefan: Ok....this is solid, good info. I'm on vacation for the next week, with a GRM staffer no less, so this project will get discussed a lot on the beach. I appreciate you pointing me in the right direction!

jh36
jh36 Reader
7/7/17 5:08 p.m.

In reply to simon_C: If I pull the trigger, I will document it to death. Because I have failed on documentation so many times. When I do a build, I'm usually on a deadline to make a race so I lose motivation to document. Since I already have a functional race car, and have no deadline, this will hopefully be a fun, leisurely and well documented build.

simon_C
simon_C New Reader
7/7/17 5:49 p.m.

Good stuff to know, Stefan. Thanks! Like I said, I was working from memory, so my info may be suspect.

I look forward to this project. This is really how porsche should have made the 944 to begin with.

Stefan
Stefan MegaDork
7/7/17 5:53 p.m.

In reply to simon_C:

Realistically the 924 should have moved to the I5, since the 2.0L it originally used was the basis of the I5, hence sharing the bellhousing.

jh36
jh36 Reader
7/10/17 3:42 a.m.

In reply to Stefan: Ok, it seems like the 7a was the na version 2.3 which is good for up to 200hp. Beyond that, it seems the forged pistons are an issue. Then, the aan was the turbo platform, good for a ton of hp. Seems like it can be used in na form too. So any I5 from the 90's will work. I'm poking around looking for 4000's, 5000's, 100's, 90's, Quattro's. Stefan, I am interested in the spacer and bellhousing. You are across the country from me, but let me know what you're looking for including shipping. Or, Ed will be at Monterey. Maybe he can swing up and put them in his checked luggage. :)

jh36
jh36 Reader
7/14/17 6:39 a.m.

In reply to Stefan:

"The bonus is that the bellhousing used is a 924 Turbo part combined with an Audi bellhousing spacer, it all nearly bolts in with the oil pan, motor mounts and exhaust manifold needing sorting."

Making sure I understand you here....does the 7A oil pan fit?and if not, what is the extent of the mod?

Stefan
Stefan MegaDork
7/14/17 8:42 a.m.

Notching it to clear the crossmember. Basically it ends up looking like the stock 944 pan, in steel.

New steel oil pans for the I5 are cheap on Rockauto.

The guy in the Netherlands that put a 7A in his built his own header, but I'm wondering if a factory header could be modified or a shorter cast one could fit?

Stefan
Stefan MegaDork
7/14/17 8:44 a.m.
jh36 wrote: In reply to Stefan: Ok, it seems like the 7a was the na version 2.3 which is good for up to 200hp. Beyond that, it seems the forged pistons are an issue. Then, the aan was the turbo platform, good for a ton of hp. Seems like it can be used in na form too. So any I5 from the 90's will work. I'm poking around looking for 4000's, 5000's, 100's, 90's, Quattro's. Stefan, I am interested in the spacer and bellhousing. You are across the country from me, but let me know what you're looking for including shipping. Or, Ed will be at Monterey. Maybe he can swing up and put them in his checked luggage. :)

Heh, I'm sure I could meet Ed at the airport with the parts. They aren't terribly heavy, just bulky. Besides, PDX is a nice airport :)

jh36
jh36 Reader
12/28/18 3:32 p.m.

In reply to Stefan :

Fast forward many months...I did buy the 7A bellhousing conversion bits from Stefan.  I also totaled the white 36 car and built a new orange 36...and PTE is dissolved but ST6 is coming on.  Lot of changes since I posted last!  

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