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Brotus7
Brotus7 HalfDork
1/7/18 6:28 p.m.

I guess I should put a generous caveat on the word "strong" when talking axle solutions that hinge a SOHC Kia Sephia axle holding up to 250 hp.  It's got to be better than a welded/poorly heat treated garage hack, right?

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 MegaDork
1/7/18 6:42 p.m.

In reply to Brotus7 :

You are my new hero for the cv info. I owe you a sammich if we ever run into one another. 

SkinnyG
SkinnyG SuperDork
1/7/18 7:30 p.m.

I love your ghetto tubing notcher.  Mine looks very similar, I used it for 7 frame #2:

 

efahl
efahl New Reader
1/7/18 7:46 p.m.
SkinnyG said:

I love your ghetto tubing notcher.  Mine looks very similar, I used it for 7 frame #2:

 

You kids and your new fangled "machines".  Here's how a Real Man(tm) makes miters: http://metalgeek.com/static/cope.pcgi  (I can't believe this thing is still around, I wrote the original code in like 1990.)

Brotus7
Brotus7 HalfDork
1/13/18 5:20 p.m.

Today was a good day.  Axles came in earlier this week, but I didn't have a chance to experiment today.

First, had to take the kiddo on some errands.  She's got good taste in Hot Wheels.

Alright, now garage time.  Got a pair of SunTrack axles.  One '94 Miata.  One Kia Sephia per the plan.  The inner CV on both of them is different from the old Miata one I dissected last week.  No pictures because I got pretty greasy during the operation.  Popped the Kia inner CV off the shaft, popped the Miata one off, took a deep breath, aligned up the splines and.... SUCCESS!!

So, now I have the axles figured out.  If I ever need to replace the driver's side, I need to get a couple axles and combine, but the total cost is still <$100, so I'm not too upset.  Plus side - if I ever lunch the passenger side outer CV, I have a brand new spare in a box.

With reinvigorated confidence, I welded up the other lower control arm and called it a day.  Hopefully I'll get a few hours in the shop tomorrow to make the rest of the arms.  Roller?  I probably shouldn't get ahead of myself.

Ian F
Ian F MegaDork
1/13/18 8:04 p.m.

Awesome!  A B5 1.8T swapped Europa is a dream build for me. I have to me, old me would try to figure out a way to make sure the A/C compressor will fit. 

I look forward to watching this build progress. cool

Brotus7
Brotus7 HalfDork
1/14/18 7:40 a.m.
Ian F said:

Awesome!  A B5 1.8T swapped Europa is a dream build for me. I have to me, old me would try to figure out a way to make sure the A/C compressor will fit. 

I look forward to watching this build progress. cool

The easy button, albeit not the cheapest, is to grab a 120A alternator and buy an electric AC compressor.  Mount all the AC stuff in the front.  One interesting thing about these cars is that the front trunk is actually part of the heater box.  I think you'd probably want to drop a compact heater box in the trunk and do away with the original heater core buried in the dash.

Ian F
Ian F MegaDork
1/14/18 7:47 a.m.

It's a thought, although 12V compressors are surprisingly difficult to find. I've done a fair bit of research on this while planning a van-RV conversion.

EV A/C compressors invariably run off higher battery voltages than 12V.

The problem is an A/C compressor generally needs around 5 HP to operate and that is rather big motor at 12 volts.

Brotus7
Brotus7 HalfDork
1/14/18 7:56 a.m.

In reply to Ian F :

Yea, I only found 1 and it's from a boutique place for $1200.  It's a shame all the new electric cars don't operate on 12V.  The electric Prius AC compressor is 3 phase 206 volt motor fed thru a variable frequency drive.

I wonder if one of the RV roof top units could be bastardized for a car application.  Definitely would need to make new lines - but don't those operate on 12V?  I'd imagine they can be sourced cheaply enough on CL.

Ian F
Ian F MegaDork
1/14/18 8:40 a.m.

I've seen that hot rod retrofit unit. I still consider it to be an option for what I want to do, although I fear I'd need a berk-load of batteries to run it for any length of time. So in the end a generator would still be required, thus defeating the point of having it at 12V. Anyway... RV A/C is a different problem.

All of the roof A/C units I've found are 115V and are meant to be run on a generator. Even the smallest 9K BTU unit I've seen is still 115V. 

It seems it would be easier to figure out how to fit a A/C compressor to the engine in the confines of the Europa chassis than trying to cobble together some other sort of system.

Brotus7
Brotus7 HalfDork
1/14/18 8:58 a.m.

I didn't realize the roof units were 115V.  I guess there's no getting around the power requirement - even the small hot rod unit needs something like 30A.

Certainly would be cheapest to widen the chassis to fit an AC compressor.  I think fitting a transverse engine a la Dr Hess would give the most freedom in terms of drivetrain choice and accessories.  Longitudinally mounted - there'd have to be a decent step width change in the chassis unless one could mount the AC compressor above it.  I suppose if the motor mount was shifted aft a bit, there may be room on the driver's side.  I think you need a Europa to try it on devil.  Who's got the Challenge Europa these days?

clshore
clshore New Reader
1/14/18 10:19 a.m.

C'mon transmitting up to 5 HP from the accessory drive belt to a remotely located A/C compressor is not rocket science.

Industrial applications have to do stuff like this all the time.

The easy button is a flexible shaft:

http://www.flexishaft.com/TorqueCapacity.htm

5 HP at 3,000 RPM requires about 105 in-lb of torque capacity.

Assuming that there are bends in the shaft for alignment, limits you to curves with 8-12"radius.

But a simple jackshaft to the rear area is straightforward, and if you need UJ/CV joints, those are industrial off-the-shelf items.

Brotus7
Brotus7 HalfDork
1/16/18 8:46 p.m.

Passenger side is suspended!

The design is a bit confusing, and I think it could be simplified.  But, this will certainly work.  Try as I might, I didn't leave room enough for a conventionally mounted shock, so I'll make up some rockers and move the shocks inboard similar to Wayslow's car.

With the suspension worked out, I've started thinking about other modifications that need to get worked out prior to dropping the body back on.  One such modification is the brake master cylinder.  I'm converting to dual masters and just found someone who did something pretty similar to what I've been mulling over.

Stock design: The brake pedal moves a linkage that connects to a bellcrank that then connects to the master.  

Imitation is the highest form of flattery - stolen from a neat build from a guy in Phoenix who's dropping a 2GR into his car. 2GR Europa Build Thread

This looks like it'll fit in the stock location without needing much modification to the chassis.  Once the suspension is done, I'll turn the chassis around in the garage and start work on the master setup.  I scored a bunch of master cylinders and balance bars at a fall swap meet.

Robbie
Robbie PowerDork
1/16/18 11:12 p.m.
Dusterbd13 said:

In reply to Brotus7 :

You are my new hero for the cv info. I owe you a sammich if we ever run into one another. 

Times 10! I'll buy the beers.

Brotus7
Brotus7 HalfDork
1/21/18 5:08 p.m.

Weekend Update:

Roller status achieved.

I'm saving cleaning up all the chassis surface rust for the spring.  It's a little chilly in CT this time of year, and I'd rather not cover my garage with the dust.  There's plenty of work to do in the meantime.  Next up is to set up the brake and clutch master cylinders.  Then (hopefully next weekend), drop the body on so I can start figuring out the exhaust and rear suspension rocker setup.

Oh, I also weighed it.  Because, why not?  I'm a little bummed with the results.  

829 lbs with the full drivetrain minus exhaust and intercooler.  Suspension complete minus shocks.  I think the body is fairly heavy at 300-400 lbs minus seats.  That'd get me up to 1230 lbs.  Add in a battery, intercooler, exhaust , a real fuel cell, some light aluminum seats and it's probably getting to 1450 before the cage.  The weight distribution is going to get interesting since front of the body is certainly heavier than the rear, but there's more stuff I need to fit in the back.

 

 

Brotus7
Brotus7 HalfDork
2/6/18 8:01 p.m.

I'm a little overdue for an update.  Dropped the body back on the chassis last weekend.  Engine fits well where it is, so the next step is to figure out the turbo mounting situation.

In a boneheaded move, I cracked my free WRX TD04 turbo when trying to rotate the housings.  I should have separated the exhaust housing first, then remove the compressor housing snap ring... In any event, that ship has now sailed.  Now what?

The TD04 is a good free/cheap turbo and the one I bustified was known good.  I'm hesitant to drop money on a used one, and ebay offshore turbos seem like a good idea to lose track day entry fees.  That said, I'm far from excited at the notion of paying real money for a new turbo.  I like the GT2560 numbers, but, damn, the turbo costs more than the car.

Options:

1. CL WRX TD04. $50-100.  Maybe buy 2.  200hp

2. GT2560R.  $800.  200-275hp? Ought to be plenty reliable for a while.  Nice spool (ball bearing).  I can build a manifold easily enough.  ebay cast manifold for an easy button?  

3. GT2560S.  $300.  This is an Isuzu diesel application of the above turbo, except with journal bearings instead of ball bearings, and a funky exhaust housing.  Would require building a manifold.  Boost would build a little slower than the GT2560R.  Should make similar power at steady state.  Can be rebuilt with a regular T25/T28 rebuild kit.

Thoughts?

 

 

Brotus7
Brotus7 HalfDork
2/6/18 8:18 p.m.

I never actually discussed the results from mounting the body (that sounds dirty...).  Moving on now.

The rear suspension is slightly too wide as set right now.  Rear wheels are from an early MR2 Spyder (15x6.5 ET42).  They just barely rub at the top with zero camber.  Luckily the track is adjustable, so i can pull it in 1/4" no problem. 

The downside: I really want wider wheels.  I think the reasonable course of action is to finish the transmission  mount, turbo setup and shift linkage whilest I ponder what to do.  In the front, I can convert the 4x3.75" to 4x100 by redrilling the hubs and using oversided studs.  Dorman catalog HERE.  610‐048 should work.  Mill the holes out using a 17mm end mill (.677"), then ream using a  .680" reamer (McMaster Carr).  I happen to already have some 1" spacers from running silly wheels on my MR2 a long time ago.

What does that plan get me?  Stock Europa offset is ~20mm.  Running the ET42 MRS wheels with 1" spacers gets me an equivalent  16mm offset.  I can test fit the wheels to see exactly how much trouble I'm in.  Similarly, I'll test fit some of my brothers 15x8 ET20 BMW wheels to check for wheel well clearance.

Need to keep the goal in mind: This doesn't need to be perfect, nor done all at once.  Let's get it going, safely, reliably (for a German powered, DIY fuel injected, British built 47 year old car).  Miata front end can wait.  9" wide meat slicks can wait.  Flares: waiting.  You guys get the hint.

dherr
dherr Reader
2/7/18 6:22 a.m.

Great to see the progress so far.  Looks like you are close on rear width, probably go wider with more offset.  I get wanting wider wheels without modifying the body, so definitely try a few  sizes you can borrow to see what works best.  For my Spitfire project, I was able to go with a +26 offset wheel, that let me run 185's on the front and 205 on the back on a 15x6 wheel.

If you want a new turbo, but don't want to pay $$$, check out WhiskyBusiness post for new turbos that he has tested in an industrial setting.  I got one for my project, did some research and the manufacturer is supplying turbos to the Chinese auto industry,  so these should be much more reliable than cheap ebay turbos of unknown manufacture. 

Brotus7
Brotus7 HalfDork
2/7/18 9:06 p.m.
dherr said:

Great to see the progress so far.  Looks like you are close on rear width, probably go wider with more offset.  I get wanting wider wheels without modifying the body, so definitely try a few  sizes you can borrow to see what works best.  For my Spitfire project, I was able to go with a +26 offset wheel, that let me run 185's on the front and 205 on the back on a 15x6 wheel.

If you want a new turbo, but don't want to pay $$$, check out WhiskyBusiness post for new turbos that he has tested in an industrial setting.  I got one for my project, did some research and the manufacturer is supplying turbos to the Chinese auto industry,  so these should be much more reliable than cheap ebay turbos of unknown manufacture. 

Thanks for the reminder of that thread - he just made another sale.  Hopefully it survives some track & autox abuse.  I should probably figure out some good oil cooling since that'll probably be the weak link in the whole engine setup.

Brotus7
Brotus7 HalfDork
3/12/18 8:52 p.m.

Haven't been posting, but have made some slow progress. 

Turbo: Got the snail from WB (looks good!) and an ebay cast manifold.  Didn't take any pictures of the manifold - doesn't look terrible for the $60 shipped.  Pretty heavy wall.  I want to face the interfaces to ensure they're flat.

I also converted the front hubs to 4x100.  They're Triumph Spitfire hubs after all, so I wasn't hugely concerned with ruining them if it didn't work. Again, I was bad about taking pictures.  I redrilled the hubs using a 17mm endmill and some lug studs from Summit with a .685" knurl diameter.  In theory, the 4x100 hole would *just* kiss the original stud hole.  Tool of choice: a Bridgeport mill w/DRO.  It appears to have worked well, but we'll find out when it's driving.Next on the front suspension: With the added propulsive motivation, I should work on the cars decelerative abilities.  Big brake kits for the Spitfire consist of either dropping many hundreds of dollars on a turnkey solution, or swapping on GT6 knuckles and spindles, then upgrading to early Celica/Corona vented front rotors.  Since I'll eventually want to upgrade to Miata knuckles for the upsized balljoints and wheel bearings, I want to minimize expenses unique to the Brit bits.  I'm thinking: used Wilwood 4 pot calipers, a rebuild kit, some 11-11.5" Wilwood brake rotors and custom rotor hats.  When I go to the Miata spindles, the calipers transfer over and I'll use MCS or Focus SVT rotors.  I can turn the hats on the lathe and pop holes in with the BPort.  What could go wrong?

 

Brotus7
Brotus7 HalfDork
3/12/18 10:04 p.m.

Rear suspension: Been banging my head on the wall for about a month there.  I envisioned this project as a bit of a hot rod, less of an engineering, exercise.  Designed the suspension relatively quickly, built it, didn't really model it up completely... As such, I didn't leave enough clearance for  shocks.  I guess it's time for inboard suspension.  Eyeballed it, figured out something that looks like it'd work, and set off to making it so.

No matter what I did, I just didn't like how it was coming out.  I flipped back and forth between the rocker mounting to the removable cross member vs the chassis itself.  I think I've settled onto the cross member mount.  After playing around for a bit, I found something that ought to work fairly well and still supports ~3.5" bump.  The crossmember is 1"x2"x.065" rectangular.  Rocker will mount using some .125" sheet welded to the side of the crossmember.  I'm undecided if I want to have a flange come off the chassis and box in the cross member, or if I want the crossmember to box in the chassis.  If I got the latter, I could use the same plates to attach the rockers as would attach the assembly to the frame.  That should look pretty clean, right?

The center of the cross member will have plates welded to both sides to pick up the shock mounts, as close to the top (and each other) as possible.  There will be additional vertical and lateral bracing to add some rigidity - just don't know what that will interfere with at the moment.  Likely exhaust, clutch slave cyl, and shift linkage.

Slowly, but surely...

 

clshore
clshore New Reader
3/13/18 6:26 p.m.

Have you attempted to incorporate any rising rate geometry into your solution?

The rocker arm is the perfect mechanism to do it. Now's the time.

Lambin_Lionout
Lambin_Lionout New Reader
5/5/18 9:54 p.m.

This is awesome.    

 

It’s Hard to tell from the pictures but If the spring is going to interfere with all the ancillaries, could you alter the rocker arm so the spring is parallel to the frame rails of the chassis? 

nocones
nocones UltraDork
5/6/18 7:29 p.m.

Where did you get that awesome list of axles?  Is that on the internet because it's amazing.

Brotus7
Brotus7 HalfDork
5/6/18 8:17 p.m.
clshore said:

Have you attempted to incorporate any rising rate geometry into your solution?

The rocker arm is the perfect mechanism to do it. Now's the time.

The rocker ratio is slightly increasing rate.  The push rod decreases rate a little slower than shock increases.  That said, it's only about 5% difference between full droop and bump.  I'm unsure how much increasing rate is beneficial, but it's also something I can play with by adjusting the rocker in the future.

 

RE: Turning the rocker laterally: I eyeballed it, but there's not alot of room to work with.  It's probably better for torsional stiffness though if I could figure out the 10lbs of crap in a 1 lb cheesecloth bag.

 

RE: Axle porn

http://interparts.com/download.htm Download them all while the gettin's good!  This sort of technical data is tough to find.... We oughtta have a GRM database of the cool stuff on the interwebs like that.  Coupled with: https://brakeparts.co.uk/ and http://brembo.mycarparts.net/ for brake data.

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