KnightDrifter
KnightDrifter None
4/13/20 8:25 p.m.

the idea: take an old heavy large car and make it a 9 second car.

the perfect candidate for this idea is the 1974 Buick Estate wagon, something most would never see past highway speeds which is the goal to mess with the meat heads at the red light and track. always loved flooring mustangs Camaro beamers etc when the light goes green off reaction time alone while myself using only a minivan ford ranger chevy suburban. But its time ive had a car to back the spirit. to stay with my style of beater vs pro i want to build this car to look clean but no more then just a old station wagon while housing as much power as i can under the hood and a good transmission to pair. ik i need a strong rear differential to handle the amount of torque ill put on it to get that much weight moving so the plan for that is a GM 12 bolt from an old dually truck. my instinct in fast builds is to start with a 454 iron block for torque to move weight and longer lasting as i dont plan to use noz. i much prefer my machines last as long as possible with proper care so turbo it is maybe more than one but we shall see. the advantage of older cars is the amount of space under the hood so if possible id love to have inline twin 454s. may have to move the setup back a little removing the middle seat in the front to make room for the trans housing which is fine by me. i will shave weight where needed like taking wires out of doors in favor of manual windows and light seats etc. i dont own the car yet, i like to plan things ahead so my steps are sure. so i would love to know if a twin engine build is feasible or if i should stick to one, any other pointers for a build like this would be much appreciated.

Dead_Sled
Dead_Sled HalfDork
4/13/20 9:22 p.m.
KnightDrifter said:

so if possible id love to have inline twin 454s.

I really hope this isn't a canoe, because this is a news letter I can subscribe to.

Datsun310Guy
Datsun310Guy UltimaDork
4/13/20 9:37 p.m.

Adding a second iron 455 and removing wires to lighten it up?  These boys were heavy to start with.

I say "we" build the best single engine car we can and start drilling holes in the frame and lighten it up like crazy.  Lots of plexiglass and faux products to lighten it up. 

just my 2 cents.  

mr2s2000elise
mr2s2000elise Dork
4/13/20 9:55 p.m.

Car looks beautiful. It's always nice to see a good example starting out. Looks very presentable. 
 

 Cant wait to see this thing do 9 sec. will be epic! 

John Welsh (Forum Supporter)
John Welsh (Forum Supporter) Mod Squad
4/13/20 9:56 p.m.

Here is some sleeper inspiration in the form of a Caprice sedan

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
4/13/20 10:16 p.m.

FYI, the manual windows in a Miata are 1 lb lighter than power. Maybe not the most effective place to save mass :) But this is bound to be interesting. 

NOT A TA
NOT A TA SuperDork
4/13/20 10:30 p.m.

Might consider looking at the earlier 69-70 wagons with shorter wheelbase and less weight. My parents bought both  a 69 and a 76 new and I drove both on a regular basis.

mblommel
mblommel Dork
4/13/20 11:55 p.m.

I think an insane number of cubic inches + two turbos crammed under the hood would be amazing. How big can a big block go displacement wise? Is 600 c.i. possible?

jerrysarcastic (Forum Supporter)
jerrysarcastic (Forum Supporter) New Reader
4/14/20 5:58 a.m.

I think all older wagons are seen as being slow, so if your goal is speed I’m not sure you need to start with a malaise era luxo-barge, dang they are heavy.  Unless you want to look as badass as possible, then yes, definitely yes. Nothing cooler than a big wagon that really moves!

 I’ve always been a fan of this Holley Sleeper wagon, although I’m not generally speaking a cheerleader for LS swap all the things

KnightDrifter
KnightDrifter New Reader
4/14/20 10:52 a.m.

im well aware this wagon is really heavy, thats kinda the point. ill shave weight where i can but i think itll be more impressive to achieve the same speed as ur average corvette in spite of weight and size. also having some weight makes dirt racing more fun.

if a twin engine setup isnt that helpful what would be a good engine to use as single, had considered a dodge v10....

dherr (Forum Supporter)
dherr (Forum Supporter) Dork
4/14/20 12:44 p.m.

A twin turbo LS would be the best way to get that barge to fly. You will need some crazy power to get 5114 pounds to run 9 second quarters. Calculators showing 1300+ HP to run 9 seconds flat and little over 1,000 HP to run an 9.9. Assuming it hooks up.

I was watching on TV the other day, an 5.3 LS bone stock from the junk yard on a dyno with a turbo and they were trying to see if they could hit 1200HP  by dialing up the boost before it broke. They did make it to 1,200, so this can definitely be done.

KnightDrifter
KnightDrifter New Reader
4/14/20 3:52 p.m.

i plan to start from junkyard bones as it is. using light weight seats, bare minimum panels in the floors, shave what i can from the body panels and frame without hurting the structural integrity. part of that will be replacing the dashboard with something that fits but is just gauges and a radio. so while it will be heavy im not planning to keep all of its 2.5T original weight. only weight i might add is probably a roll cage just in case i get carried away on dirt.

so LS engine is the best route then, does a 454 fit that category or do i need to look for a different engine. preferably GM built or at least not ford.

Agent98
Agent98 Reader
4/14/20 7:36 p.m.

That's a beauty, it it were mine Id keep it full weight, LS1 turbo, at settle for mid 13's, will be more useful and fun as a fast cruiser then a gutted barge. Even pulling 1000 lbs off it will take a heckuva rear suspension, driveline and motor to run 9s, plus a certified cage, etc. Do you want to drop $30,000-40,000 into a Buick wagon? I guessed $10 per hp that's $12000-$15000 in the engine alone, maybe the Nelsons have some thoughts here, all I know is its way out of my league. 

NOT A TA
NOT A TA SuperDork
4/14/20 8:00 p.m.

From the OP for those who think the car pictured is the project vehicle " i dont own the car yet, "

I suggested the earlier version because the 6" shorter wheelbase would be easier (but still not easy) to get to hook well enough to run 9's.

jerrysarcastic (Forum Supporter)
jerrysarcastic (Forum Supporter) New Reader
4/14/20 10:53 p.m.

if a twin engine setup isnt that helpful what would be a good engine to use as single, had considered a dodge v10....

I’m not sure what your horsepower target is, but I’d think there are plenty of ways to hit that. Mostly it comes down to budget and what’ll fit. . An LS or Gen III Hemi will be more affordable and supported by the aftermarket but a little more expected these days. A Chevy big block will be more retro and heavy as hell, but make plenty enough power to get you there too. 

Something more unusual like a built BOP engine or Dodge V10 will blow people’s minds, but there’s less aftermarket support so be prepared to open your wallet. Same with twin engines because engineering and “two of everything” to help run costs up.

I think in the end you engine choice might be dictated by the car you plan to start with, but you can bet whatever you choose, LS will be the cheapest and will fit in any engine bay. 

KnightDrifter
KnightDrifter New Reader
4/14/20 11:27 p.m.

In reply to NOT A TA :

while i dont own the car yet i do plan to grab the 74 Buick, i know other models would be easier but i dont mind a challenge and have no real time frame so i dont mind it taking longer to complete.

jerrysarcastic (Forum Supporter)
jerrysarcastic (Forum Supporter) New Reader
4/15/20 12:47 a.m.

while i dont own the car yet i do plan to grab the 74 Buick

awesome, the one in your original post looks like a sweet starting point.  My vote FWIW would be to keep a Buick in your Buick. A 455 with a turbo would be wicked!

KnightDrifter
KnightDrifter New Reader
4/15/20 2:22 p.m.
jerrysarcastic (Forum Supporter) said:

if a twin engine setup isnt that helpful what would be a good engine to use as single, had considered a dodge v10....

I’m not sure what your horsepower target is

neither do i, i was just hoping to squeeze as much as i could into the build without blowing the engine after 2 races

NOT A TA
NOT A TA SuperDork
4/15/20 7:53 p.m.
KnightDrifter said:

In reply to NOT A TA :

while i dont own the car yet i do plan to grab the 74 Buick, i know other models would be easier but i dont mind a challenge and have no real time frame so i dont mind it taking longer to complete.

Since you're considering that Buick I'd look to see if you can purchase fiberglass hood, fenders, bumpers etc. that were perhaps offered aftermarket for the non wagon cars. If you decide to go with a Buick engine the guys at http://www.v8buick.com/index.php   forum are knowledgeable. I've been a member there for years.

A 401 CJ
A 401 CJ Dork
4/15/20 8:09 p.m.

I’ll bet it’s within 250 lbs of a Hellcat.

NOT A TA
NOT A TA SuperDork
4/16/20 10:52 a.m.

In reply to A 401 CJ :

Those wagons are around 5000 lbs.

fidelity101 (Forum Supporter)
fidelity101 (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
4/16/20 11:01 a.m.

L18 swap with 1 honkin turbo. 

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