759NRNG
759NRNG SuperDork
8/15/18 4:13 p.m.
bobzilla said:
sleepyhead said:

I had a suspicion it would be the same /higher based on the assembled length comparison picture from yesterday

edit: mid-corner makes sense... that's where I got caught out with the TL at NOLa with the morning elevated rear pressures

I'm never going to live this down am I?

Redemption is but 9 months away.........

sleepyhead
sleepyhead Dork
8/15/18 4:29 p.m.
bluej said:
mazdeuce - Seth said:

Remembering Pat's recent cutting wheel incident, I took it nice and slow and used ALL the safety equipment. 

Where exactly does one acquire steel-toed crocs? Or is it kevlar socks?

I think Kevlar Crocs are more likely.  KevCrocs

Hold on, I need to go file some trademark and LLC paperwork. cheeky

re:Bob

sometime after you get a couple track days and get to turn your own timed-track laps at OLOA

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
8/15/18 4:33 p.m.
bluej said:
mazdeuce - Seth said:

Remembering Pat's recent cutting wheel incident, I took it nice and slow and used ALL the safety equipment. 

 

 

Where exactly does one acquire steel-toed crocs? Or is it kevlar socks?

Maybe I went inside and put boots on. 

But if you're really curious, Birkenstock makes something pretty darn close. Steel Toe Birks

759NRNG
759NRNG SuperDork
8/15/18 4:44 p.m.
mazdeuce - Seth said:
bluej said:
mazdeuce - Seth said:

Remembering Pat's recent cutting wheel incident, I took it nice and slow and used ALL the safety equipment. 

 

 

Where exactly does one acquire steel-toed crocs? Or is it kevlar socks?

Maybe I went inside and put boots on. 

But if you're really curious, Birkenstock makes something pretty darn close. Steel Toe Birks

That almost sounds like a phrase that could be used here to describe someone needing a swift kick in the arse .......kinda like 'shiny.......

Slammo
Slammo New Reader
8/15/18 9:23 p.m.

You may want to re-measure the spring rate, as cutting coils will have an effect.  Fewer coils means less spring which means higher spring rate.

bluej
bluej UberDork
8/15/18 10:23 p.m.
mazdeuce - Seth said:
bluej said:
mazdeuce - Seth said:

Remembering Pat's recent cutting wheel incident, I took it nice and slow and used ALL the safety equipment. 

 

 

Where exactly does one acquire steel-toed crocs? Or is it kevlar socks?

Maybe I went inside and put boots on. 

But if you're really curious, Birkenstock makes something pretty darn close. Steel Toe Birks

Hah. Maybe, huh? Or is it allegedly cheeky

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
8/16/18 8:26 a.m.

In reply to Slammo :

And I will at some point. But if you look at this picture: 

You can see that when I cut off the first coil, what I'm really cutting off is the inactive coil at the bottom that rests on the perch. This does complicate things a bit as now the first coil gradually lays down on the perch as it compresses and that takes it out of the coil count. I would need to compress the whole thing to see where in the stroke that happens. I "think" this would give it a bit of a progressive rate to the point where the coil bottoms out. Now that I'm typing this all out, I really should test it. 

NickD
NickD UberDork
8/16/18 8:37 a.m.

I've been down the cut springs route before.

Actual photographic evidence of me circa 2011 chopping the E36 M3 out of the springs on my 1990 Acura Legend L 5-speed sedan I had aqcuired like 2 days earlier. We whacked about 4 coils out of the front and rear springs (enough that the rear springs lost preload whenever you jacked the back of the car up) In my defense, lowering springs were 100% non-existent for that car.

Before

After

klodkrawler05
klodkrawler05 Reader
8/16/18 12:39 p.m.

It's rare that I can say I was thinking the same thing as Sleepyhead because he's usually wayyyyyyyy ahead of me on these sorts of things. But I was also considering if the higher spring weight would result in lack of ride height loss given it's stiffer rate.

If you toss the Accord onto some corner weight scales it should be possible to calculate how much static compression you'll get out of the spring no?

At the same time, I enjoy the gospel of measure once cut twice so I do enjoy seeing the build this way also.

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
8/16/18 2:50 p.m.

In reply to klodkrawler05 :

I'm hoping that Santa brings me some scales and maybe some hub stands for Christmas. It would give me a lot more data to play with. God knows I love data. 

It's funny working on a car that has actual parts available for it. Just about anything I can think of doing I can just spend money and the answer comes to my door in a box. That's nice, but ultimately it's not a whole lot more rewarding than just buying a fast car. Not that I'm against buying parts, I have a list a mile long, but I want to know why they work and why they're worth buying first. Playing around with measuring rates and cutting springs is part of that. Now I can look at published rates and see how they compare to what came on the car and what I'm playing with. I'm also going to be able to see what sort of geometry changes come with lowering and how much travel I have left and all of that. It's also cheaper to hang out and think about things than it is to go shopping. 

Speaking of shopping, I keep looking at seats. I'm spending an unhealthy amount of time looking at seats to be honest, especially since I didn't even know how much the stock ones weigh. 
Front drivers seat, 46.5 lbs. No real way for me to hold the seat on the scale and take the pictures so you'll have to trust me. 

The seats are in great shape and they fit me well so I don't want to pitch them right now, but I do want to think about them. The sliders are just about flat on the floor. and if you could use them to mount a proper seat you could get it absurdly low and still have good adjustability. The problem is that the rails incorporate the up and down mechanism. I think there is a chance that you could grind out these rivets and bolt a side mount plate to the holes and have it all work, but I'd need a set to play with. 

759NRNG
759NRNG SuperDork
8/16/18 4:02 p.m.

Measure thrice grind once......I have a set of swap meet Recaros (yes that sameswapmeet) mounted on the stock perches of the '91 ext cab PU in the driveway.....almost straight up bolt on(grade 8) with NO pre measuring YMMV

759NRNG
759NRNG SuperDork
8/16/18 4:10 p.m.

Seth.....on a different note is there perhaps a thread that addresses the status of all your other idle 'efforts' for those on a need to know basis? wink

Sonic
Sonic UltraDork
8/16/18 6:40 p.m.

The best cheap, flat, easy, and safe seat rails are the OEM ones from a Jeep TJ.  Readily junkyard available, 1” thick, flat, double locking, adjustment handle goes to both rails.   They look exactly like the Sparco ones but cheap, and they had to pass OEM crash test standards. 

Woody
Woody MegaDork
8/16/18 8:53 p.m.
Sonic said:

The best cheap, flat, easy, and safe seat rails are the OEM ones from a Jeep TJ.  Readily junkyard available, 1” thick, flat, double locking, adjustment handle goes to both rails.   They look exactly like the Sparco ones but cheap, and they had to pass OEM crash test standards. 

That's good to know. TR8Todd told me about TR7 sliders, but the Jeep ones would be way easier to find.

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
8/17/18 9:42 p.m.

I agree with Woody. Good info Sonic, thanks. 

I ordered springs from Speedway and they came today. I was torn between 11 inch springs with a pigtail on one end or double flat 10's. I went with the 10's mostly because yellow is fast. 

The extra top hats I have are from a TL and the extra studs for the strut brace are different than on the Accord. Pressing the right two out leaves me one that matches up with the Accord firewall brace and the three to hold it to the car. If I knew I'd use the press as much as I do I'd have bought it years ago.

Shocks come out shocks go in. I just KNEW that it was still going to be too tall so I slapped it together with no spring isolators and....maybe not all the low, but most of the low. 

The jack point went from 7 1/8 to 5 1/2 and that was before I drove it around to settle it. The toe needs to be set, but the first drive is VERY encouraging. Brake dive is gone, cornering is flat. I still think it's under damped, but this is a good starting point. Time to take it back apart. 

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 MegaDork
8/18/18 3:31 a.m.

That is HOT.

perfecr amount of wheelwell stuffing/stance.

I dont know if its faster or comfortable thos way, but id leave it.

Bent-Valve
Bent-Valve Reader
8/18/18 5:50 a.m.

mazduece said went with the 10's mostly because yellow is fast.

So if I paint my springs yellow my et drops? Cool. wink

I am not a fan of overly dropped / tire rubbing drops. I agree with db13, that looks perfect.

When said "cutting 4 coils" on your old Accord I thought it would be too low but that looked good too. I thought the leaves in the work area were a nice touch, true GRM. laugh

759NRNG
759NRNG SuperDork
8/18/18 8:02 a.m.

I've lost track....still running F/R sway bars? Nailed the stance maestro......

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
8/18/18 8:25 a.m.

In reply to 759NRNG :

Still running the stock front bar and the bigger bar from the TL in the rear. Not sure if either/both are necessary but I suspect they are. There is an autocross practice day next Sunday which would be ideal, but there is also a rallycross on Saturday. What I'm considering is putting stock suspension back on, rallycrossing on Saturday, changing suspenion/alignment that night, and then autocross practice on Sunday. I'm not sure I want to work that hard. 

barefootskater
barefootskater HalfDork
8/18/18 8:47 a.m.
mazdeuce - Seth said:

There is an autocross practice day next Sunday which would be ideal, but there is also a rallycross on Saturday. What I'm considering is putting stock suspension back on, rallycrossing on Saturday, changing suspenion/alignment that night, and then autocross practice on Sunday. I'm not sure I want to party that hard. 

FTFY

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
8/20/18 2:03 p.m.

A couple of cars ago I had a 91 Civic Si. It was a hard core STS car and I could never bring myself to put enough stock back in it to enjoy it the way I wanted to. It was always too low, too loud and too uncomfortable to daily. In a lot of ways the Accord is a do-over on that concept. One of the things I always thought I could do on the Civic was have two sets of suspension and swap them as needed. One would be the set that the car came with for AX and road course stuff, and the other would be for rallycross and daily driving. I'm revisiting that idea with the Accord and did a front shock assembly swap today to get the car back to rallycross shape and to see how long it takes. The answer is 39 minutes from start to last lug torqued. With more practice I think I could do front/rear in less than a hour and a half not including alignment changes. 

adam525i
adam525i Reader
8/20/18 2:09 p.m.

A good RallyX setup is so nice to daily drive, neutral handling, lots of suspension travel and slightly higher spring rates. They just handle nicely and eat up all the crap that North American roads offer up. 

This is a fun build to follow along to.

Adam

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 MegaDork
8/20/18 4:18 p.m.

Did you slam the rear yet? Looks like a lot of rake....

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
8/20/18 6:15 p.m.

In reply to adam525i :

I'm looking forward to sorting out a street/rx setup. I agree, a good rallycross setup is great to drive daily. Handles well, don't have to worry about potholes or steep driveways. Just sort of bomb everything which is a super fun way to drive. 

In reply to Dusterbd13 :

The rear currently has the other set of stock front springs with a very small cut. About 1/2 inch lower than stock. I was waiting until I got the front how I wanted it and then I'll cut the rear to match. For this weekend the plan is to rallycross on the stiff rear springs and see just how loose it is. I'm betting we'll have to disconnect the rear sway bar to keep the car pointed in the right direction. I think those springs are a bit too stiff for daily/RX use. The plan is to go a bit heavier but still light enough that something cheap like a KYB GR2 will be sufficient for damping. 

759NRNG
759NRNG SuperDork
8/20/18 9:54 p.m.

You wear me out ...no wonder your so skinny ......hey drink your fluids it's HOT out there.....

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