mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
9/26/18 1:02 p.m.

Brake ducting on the drivers side is easy. We'll ignore that for now. As sleepyhead alluded to above, I don't have any of the cool flappy bits aside from this one that helps tire aero. 

The brake caliper is on the front of the hub which gives basically no space to blow air into the center of the rotor in front of the drive shaft. Nothing about this side is easy. 

On top of that, the motor is almost against the front frame horn on this side. I didn't take good picture of it, but there is only barely enough space to snake a 3 inch hose between the crank pulley and the tire at full lock. To get around the frame horn past the fender liner you have to remove the washer bottle. 

I think I need to order some brake hose and take the front bumper off and see what I can figure out as far as routing, and from there I'll see what I can figure out as far as getting the air on the rotor. I should also get some plywood and make a mock splitter so I can figure out some sort of sane ride height. 

Oh, and one of the junkyard KYB's decided that track life is too hard. It might not be obvious in the picture, but the oil is rapidly leaving the shock. 

759NRNG
759NRNG SuperDork
9/26/18 1:06 p.m.

You can run round as far as physically possible and then you can hone your sheet metal skills by fabbing rectangular transitions.....like on my chiropractors' CMC camaro....just sayin'

sleepyhead
sleepyhead Dork
9/26/18 1:56 p.m.

let me see if I can ask this unconfusingly...

can we get a picture from where the lower control arm mounts to the subframe out, so we can see the backside of the rotor/caliper/backing plate?

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
9/26/18 2:24 p.m.

Front of the hub. 

Rear of the hub. 

I can put a 3 inch tube (represented here by rolled up poster board) along the frame rail and down to the dust shield on the back. It's a bit of a convoluted route and I'm not 100% happy with the idea but I'm having trouble imagining anything better. 

sleepyhead
sleepyhead Dork
9/26/18 2:54 p.m.

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

does this part of the backing plate respond to pressure? (red arrow)

how big a hose can we fit along the lower control arm and towards the green circle?

I'm not real keen on dropping air into the back side of the disk... if you look closely, you'll see the backing plate is actually shaped to encourage exit flow from there.

but, another... outside the box idea...  is, coming down from the fender?

Ram50Ron
Ram50Ron Reader
9/26/18 3:07 p.m.

In reply to sleepyhead :

Beat me to it. Use the caliper bracket mounting bolt to hold a simple duct and the antiroll bar to support the cooling hose.

Pegasus sells 2" brake cooling hose.

Side note: does anyone have an idea of how high of temps that backing plate sees? I have an idea for this that involves polymers. 

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
9/26/18 3:46 p.m.

Everything I read says that you want the air to go into the center of the rotor and out the vanes if at all possible. I need to pull the dust shield and see what things look like without it. These are not big rotors. 

Woody
Woody MegaDork
9/26/18 4:44 p.m.

Does it need to be a round tube all the way through? Maybe you can use an oval plastic intake horn from an cast off airbox to get through some of the tight areas. 

wawazat
wawazat Reader
9/26/18 5:55 p.m.

Can you use the frame itself as the air delivery tube? Cut a hole in the plastic fascia and bumper beam and foam then another in the frame behind the front wheel and run the flex duct toward the brakes. You don’t need 100% efficiency but may need to reinforce the frame behind the front wheel where you cut the hole for the duct. 

sleepyhead
sleepyhead Dork
9/27/18 4:35 a.m.
mazdeuce - Seth said:

Everything I read says that you want the air to go into the center of the rotor and out the vanes if at all possible. I need to pull the dust shield and see what things look like without it. These are not big rotors. 

make sure to weigh them while they're off   wink

RX8driver
RX8driver Reader
9/27/18 7:58 a.m.

https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/aaf-all42160/overview/?retaillocation=int

 

I used some of these to add ducts to the dust shields of my 2015 WRX. Not perfect, not all into the middle, but much better than nothing.

Professor_Brap
Professor_Brap HalfDork
9/27/18 9:52 a.m.
mazdeuce - Seth said:

In reply to Professor_Brap :

I didn't have that issue, but maybe it's because the Accord looks intimidating in a rear view mirror? laugh

 

Miatas and ACR Neons are definitely not. I run in a Middle/top group. Everyone has easily 200HP+ on me. It just want the damn point by when I can be on their butt in the corners. 

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
9/27/18 9:58 a.m.

Brakes are apart. Can't remove the dust shields with the hub in place, because of course not, but that might not really be the issue. 

These are the passenger side pads. The lower one is the outside, the sliding side, the upper is the inner, the single piston side. Without any comment on my part, what do you see and how would you deal with that? 

badwaytolive
badwaytolive Reader
9/27/18 10:00 a.m.

I hope this isn't taken in any negative fashion, but doesn't this seem like a lot of effort and convolution for a part of the car that worked great for a full track day?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ UberDork
9/27/18 10:01 a.m.

Looks like you bent the pad a bit- stiffer backing plate?

EDIT: Or maybe the pad is hanging up on the ears that locate it, especially once it gets hot and expands.  Maybe file that area for a little more clearance?

RevRico
RevRico UberDork
9/27/18 10:04 a.m.

In my completely unprofessional opinion, the single piston side looks like it's pushing way to hard. Air in the line or maybe some debris? The rotors aren't warped are they?

I really don't know, but I've seen that on some of my vehicles in the past, so I'm curious as to the right answer. 

Professor_Brap
Professor_Brap HalfDork
9/27/18 10:07 a.m.

Looks like stiffer backing plate is needed for sure. 

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
9/27/18 10:08 a.m.
badwaytolive said:

I hope this isn't taken in any negative fashion, but doesn't this seem like a lot of effort and convolution for a part of the car that worked great for a full track day?

This set of pads/rotors has actually worked great for five track days and about 10k street miles. 

Everything seems to slide great on the pins, no problems with the brakes at all. Is bent backing plates something that can be "cured" or is it just asking too much of the system? 

sleepyhead
sleepyhead Dork
9/27/18 10:08 a.m.

it looks like the inside is "trailing" in its engagement of the rotor, and also odd that the inside is wearing faster than the outside

I recall from the TL weightloss build that the rotor cooling backs were mounted inside the hubs

Time for RL caliper research?  Dunno how they'd play, balance wise with the rear drums

spacecadet
spacecadet Reader
9/27/18 10:09 a.m.

Inner pad wear is normally a sign of the pistons not pulling back. now i'm curious if somehow the pad was also not moving properly and the force of the piston helped bend it.... but once it was bent... it seems to have worn flat... there's no bevel like one side of the pad was catching in a weird way... 

really weird to say the least. curious what the opposite side looks like... 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ UberDork
9/27/18 10:11 a.m.
mazdeuce - Seth said:

This set of pads/rotors has actually worked great for five track days and about 10k street miles. 

Ah.  I would just run them then and not really worry about that wear profile, it has done plenty for you if its' survived five track days.

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
9/27/18 10:14 a.m.

Teammates asked me for a picture with a straight edge on the backing plate. 

Going to go pull the other side and see if it's both sides or just a problem with this caliper. 

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
9/27/18 10:29 a.m.

Apparently banana shaped backing plates is a feature of the system. 

sleepyhead
sleepyhead Dork
9/27/18 10:34 a.m.

still looks like some minor issues with the pax side compared to the drivers, dunno if it's enough to call for a rebuild... but something to keep an eye on

Dashpot
Dashpot Reader
9/27/18 11:30 a.m.

Been There. The ears of the bent pad are binding in the carrier because the backing plate is expanding with heat. They get hotter and bend easier as you lose more pad material.

A couple suggestions:

Make sure the SS clips in the carrier aren't deformed before reuse, or better yet get new ones with your new pads. 

Keep your toasted pads and measure the ear dimensions against your new ones. If they're the same, grind a few thou off the new ones as insurance (I think some manufacturers clearance their racing pads out of the box, but don't recall which ones).

Biggest hose you can fit for venting. Unbolt or cut off the backing plate & aim the hose as close as possible to the center of the rotor. That'll help a lot.

Good Luck!

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