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DjGreggieP
DjGreggieP Reader
2/1/18 3:04 p.m.

Those tape measures are nifty! I may need to go searching for some of those. I thought mine that locks when the tape gets pulled out was cool...

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
2/2/18 5:36 a.m.

I woke up at 3:00 am thinking about shocks. The Accord, TL and TSX are all brothers. They share common engineering, engines, and many suspension parts, but they aren't the same. Some of it is weight, some of it is brake/knuckle issues, some of it is just weird. 

In general the Accord and TL can swap shocks freely. Some of the manufacturer parts numbers are different, but all of the aftermarket stuff is the same. The TSX is the same in front, except the top hats are different and if you have self leveling headlights the shock needs a place to attach the sensor rod. In the rear the difference is that the TSX has a slightly narrower eye. This means that you can't run Accord and TL rear shocks without employing a grinder, but you can run TSX rear shocks by adding a couple of washers to take up space. This opens up a few parts that are listed for the TSX but not the Accord/TL, most notably Bilstein B6 monotube shocks that appear go have proper 46mm internals. This should make them revalveable by any of the people that do that sort of thing. The only downside seems to be that they're a proper length so too much lowering might be too much. Looks like $120 or so a corner. Not Challenge priced, but reasonable. 

Pete Gossett
Pete Gossett MegaDork
2/2/18 6:37 a.m.

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

Are you a Bilstein fan? There seems to be drivers who love them, and drivers who hate them. I'm firmly in the 2nd group...although the ones on the Vette aren't bad - but they also appear to be original. I've always found them to have way too much compression dampening. 

sleepyhead
sleepyhead HalfDork
2/2/18 7:18 a.m.

I think the point with Bilstein that Seth's focusing on is the "rebuildability" aspect... so he can send them out somewhere and have a completely different set of valving installed once he learns the characteristics of the car... and for the same base price as the set of Koni-STR's that I have sitting in my basement.

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
2/2/18 7:23 a.m.

I have a friend with a shock dyno and the resources to rebuild. It might be a chore to talk him into the project, but the resources are there. 

Edit: I just want to add that I'm not wedded to any particular shock brand. I've used several and been happy/sad with most of them. I'm looking for quality, economy, and adjustability. I'm also looking at ways to make this all work for track/autocross/rallycross. Changing out shocks/springs is a relatively quick process in the Accord, two bolts each at the rear and four at the front. If the ride height stays the same then alignment does too. It would be nice to have a "nice" set of shocks/springs for pavement duty and a softer beater set for rallycross or to use when I'm messing with the good ones. It would also be nice to be able to cobble something together from junkyard parts just in case I find one of these cars to build into a LeMons/WRL car. 

Can you tell I like this car? laugh

759NRNG
759NRNG Dork
2/2/18 8:25 a.m.
mazdeuce - Seth said:

In reply to Woody :

It would be more fun day to day with the torque if that's what you're in to, especially if you don't plan to change much about the engine. The 2007 version (the most powerful) of the car made 266hp. Squeezing that out of a K24 isn't trivial. However, the internet says that the lightest V6 accord coupe from the factory was something like 3265, so 271lbs heavier than the base 2.4 coupe. Not all of that is V6 weight, the V6 cars were automatically optioned up if I remember correctly. If we assume The numbers are real, then the 2.4 car is 91.7% the weight of the V6 car, so it would only need to make 244hp, and then you're still lighter for turning and brakes. I suspect you'd be on equal ground at an ever lower power than that, but that's all speculation. I do love speculation though. laugh

I'm signed up for autocross. This is the most excited that I've been in a while even though I'm going to get my butt handed to me in STS. I'm still HS legal, but there is only one other car registered in HS, and there were two in STS. Getting beaten by two cars is more fun than getting beaten by one. The only other zero money thing I can do is an alignment, and since the only thing that can be aligned on this car is toe, that's what I'll check!
I bought two new tape measures, these have fancy fractions marked on them which means less line counting. I like that. 

The goal was to adjust things to get 1/16 to 1/8 toe out in front and neutral to slightly toe out in the rear. A couple of four foot levels, a couple of bungee cords, my new tape measures and...... front is 1/8 out. Already. Weird. Check the rear. Zero. So it's basically already set to a fairly aggressive alignment. Way more so than you'd normally see on a street car. Again, there is no sign AT ALL that there had been a wrench anywhere on the suspension. What the hell has this car been up to? 

Well, there goes my day of messing with alignment. I guess I could just clean the house? 

Brilliant!!!!

Woody
Woody MegaDork
2/2/18 1:06 p.m.
mazdeuce - Seth said:

I woke up at 3:00 am thinking about shocks. The Accord, TL and TSX are all brothers. They share common engineering, engines, and many suspension parts, but they aren't the same. Some of it is weight, some of it is brake/knuckle issues, some of it is just weird. 

In general the Accord and TL can swap shocks freely. Some of the manufacturer parts numbers are different, but all of the aftermarket stuff is the same. The TSX is the same in front, except the top hats are different and if you have self leveling headlights the shock needs a place to attach the sensor rod. In the rear the difference is that the TSX has a slightly narrower eye. This means that you can't run Accord and TL rear shocks without employing a grinder, but you can run TSX rear shocks by adding a couple of washers to take up space. This opens up a few parts that are listed for the TSX but not the Accord/TL, most notably Bilstein B6 monotube shocks that appear go have proper 46mm internals. This should make them revalveable by any of the people that do that sort of thing. The only downside seems to be that they're a proper length so too much lowering might be too much. Looks like $120 or so a corner. Not Challenge priced, but reasonable. 

I love the fact that, as I sleep, there is the brain of an engineer pondering the same questions that I hope to need answers to one day.

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
2/2/18 1:26 p.m.

In reply to Woody :

I think I'm going to have fun with this car. I just took Mrs. Deuce to the movies in it. She says it's a perfectly acceptable appliance which is basically glowing praise. 

Also, 31.1mpg on the first tank. Not the Volt, but a hell of a lot better than most of the rest of what I'm driving. Internet says 17 gallon tank which would give me 500 miles of range for One Lap. That would be nice. 

Dirtydog
Dirtydog Reader
2/2/18 1:30 p.m.

K-D VALVE SPRING COMPRESSOR #383 - $40 (staten island) hide this posting

 1Just in case you need to do more valve jobs at the same time.

© craigslist - Map data © OpenStreetMap

(google map)

K-D VALVE SPRING COMPRESSOR #383j. Ed. 646 309 4686

  • do NOT contact me with unsolicited services or offers
Dirtydog
Dirtydog Reader
2/2/18 1:33 p.m.

The above is in case you need to do more than one job at a time.

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
2/2/18 1:34 p.m.

I've got this one. Good to know that it should work. laugh

Dirtydog
Dirtydog Reader
2/2/18 1:43 p.m.

I remember you got it, and used it on Ferd.  Thought of you when I saw the other one.

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
2/2/18 1:46 p.m.

Kind of makes me want to start collecting valve spring compressors. They're pretty elegant in use. 

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
2/5/18 7:07 a.m.

Autocross! Yesterday was the second event of the 2018 Houston season and my first in a while. Classes have been shuffled around nationally at the slow end. I'm putting myself in a ST class for now. I expect I'll probably migrate out to Prepared at some point where I'll get smushed even harder, but for now it's a good place to play with six people showing up in STS. The Accord would have been STF last year, but STF is dead, so now it's STS. It's fun not really caring about classes so long as I'm legal. laugh

The day went from 60 degrees and full wet to 70 and full dry over the day. Luckily I ran in the wet. I say luckily because it was hilarious good fun. Somehow the 205 Grenlanders are even worse in the wet than they are on dry pavement. With 160hp at the crank I could spin the inside tire at will on every corner and was only able to use full throttle at one point on the course. But.....and there's always a but, the car was an absolute joy to drive. The TL sway bar balances the car perfectly. LFB on corner entry gets the car to come around just a bit and I can correct the car at any point in a sweeper with a combination of lift or LFB. It's not tail happy, just almost perfectly balanced. I finished 129/134 on raw time, 122/134 in PAX, and almost nine seconds behind first in STS. All this on a course that was 47ish seconds long for the fast cars. I was slow as E36 M3. It was a good slow, a fun slow, a slow that shows potential. Any car needs grip, balance, and power to be fast, with power probably being the smallest part. Of grip and balance, I already have one of the two, so I consider that a great start. Basically nowhere to go but up! 
The obvious "go faster" button is tires, but I'm not going there yet. The car has too much dive and not enough camber as it sits. More grip will lower times, but will only make the bad things worse. The car needs shocks, probably springs and shocks, and then some sort of camber correction at least in front, maybe in the rear as well depending on how the rest of the suspension goes. Time for a budget. 
Budgeting is always sort of a game where I set my own rules and attempt to live by them. I've used $100 a week in the past and I think I'm going to go back to that. The caveat is that $100 a week will encompass ALL of my "racing" activities. This means entry fees, parts, all of that stuff, though I'm excluding One Lap from the budget because it's my game. cheeky Autocross is $35 a month here in Houston and, I have two track weekends coming up before One Lap that I'm including in my budget. That's not going to leave much money for parts until after summer unless I go junk yard hunting. 
If projects are supposed to be fun and add joy to your life, this one looks to be a success. 

Dirtydog
Dirtydog Reader
2/5/18 9:27 a.m.

I know absolutely nothing about this type of racing/fun.   But it looks like Great Fun.   May if you use a Challenge Car mind set, you can keep things within your budget.  Good luck with this car, and One Lap.

Woody
Woody MegaDork
2/5/18 9:51 a.m.
mazdeuce - Seth said:That's not going to leave much money for parts until after summer unless I go junk yard hunting. 

 

The weekend sounds like a great success.

By all means, go to the junkyard! And take some photos.

The junkyard is one of our greatest teachers.

Woody
Woody MegaDork
2/5/18 9:54 a.m.

What should we expect the interior of such a car to look like at this price point?

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
2/5/18 10:09 a.m.

In reply to Woody :

Mine is cleeeeeean with the exception that it was a smokers car. My gut feeling is that the fabric interiors age better than the leather ones do, at least down here in the south. Most of the leather seats I saw in the junkyard were pretty far gone on this age Honda. What I do have is fairly extensive fading on the tops of the back seats. You might have more longevity up where you are. 

2002maniac
2002maniac Dork
2/5/18 1:01 p.m.

This is an interesting project.  I've been looking for a new DD with a good balance of comfort/economy/efficiency with a little bit of "fun to drive" thrown in as well.

What's the real world weight difference between a base coupe and a sedan?

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
2/5/18 1:48 p.m.

In reply to 2002maniac :

Word on the street is that it's somewhere between 200 and 300lbs like for like. There seems to be something like a 600lb spread from the basest of the base coupes like mine to the loaded V6 auto leather cars. I need a set of scales. 

 

sleepyhead
sleepyhead HalfDork
2/5/18 1:59 p.m.

insert battle over whether a sedan body makes up the weight penalty by being stiffer... and, go!

sleepyhead
sleepyhead HalfDork
2/5/18 2:03 p.m.
mazdeuce - Seth said:


The obvious "go faster" button is tires, but I'm not going there yet. The car has too much dive and not enough camber as it sits. More grip will lower times, but will only make the bad things worse. The car needs shocks, probably springs and shocks, and then some sort of camber correction at least in front, maybe in the rear as well depending on how the rest of the suspension goes. Time for a budget. 
Budgeting is always sort of a game where I set my own rules and attempt to live by them. I've used $100 a week in the past and I think I'm going to go back to that. The caveat is that $100 a week will encompass ALL of my "racing" activities. This means entry fees, parts, all of that stuff, though I'm excluding One Lap from the budget because it's my game. cheeky Autocross is $35 a month here in Houston and, I have two track weekends coming up before One Lap that I'm including in my budget. That's not going to leave much money for parts until after summer unless I go junk yard hunting. 
If projects are supposed to be fun and add joy to your life, this one looks to be a success. 

these steelies need some yellow... excuse me, gold... rattlebomb application


 

Recon1342
Recon1342 Reader
2/5/18 3:16 p.m.

Awesome. In for updates...

Woody
Woody MegaDork
2/6/18 4:18 p.m.

I don’t know a whole lot about these engines. Do they have any oiling issues under sustained cornering?

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
2/6/18 5:31 p.m.

In reply to Woody :

Going to find that out. I think all the K motors do to some extent. We certainly had oil loss on track last year with the K20 in the Civic and pretty much everyone who has autocrossed the RSX at the national level has blown one up. There are a host of pan options that are supposed to help. I'll be picking Andy Hollis's brain on One Lap. Word is that he's pretty good at blowing them up.

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