Woody
Woody MegaDork
5/14/19 9:25 a.m.

Thank you for sharing your experience. Well done!

Woody
Woody MegaDork
5/14/19 9:27 a.m.

Based upon your comment above, would you consider either the previously mentioned Civic Si, or perhaps even an Accord V6 6MT to be a better starting point, or no?

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
5/14/19 10:36 a.m.

In reply to Woody :

That's a good question. If you want to go faster, the V6 Accord or the Si would both be faster. Between those two, the Si is the easy button. Tires, pads and some way to add a bit of camber and you can bang off laps all day far quicker than my Accord. There is a reason another forum member has one sitting in my driveway right now. A V6 Accord gives you a ton of power (relatively) for not much weight penalty. Suspension is easy to deal with but the same brake issues are likely to pop up depending on how hard you drive it. I think both are solid choices and between the two I think the 8th gen Si sedan is currently a bargain for a low buy in everyday track car. 

Having said that, I'd still start where I did, but only because I want to end up someplace different. The Si still has struts. Struts work, but I'm not always happy with the compromises to make them work. Also, the Si has a very small engine compartment which complicates future power and trying to remove heat. The V6 Accord is still heavier and faster and thirstier than I want it to be. The motor is only a bit heavier, but the V6 (all? mostly?) came with leather and a sunroof. Additionally, you really want the TL six speed transmission with the LSD and not the five speed that the Accord came with, so you, or I anyway, would still be looking at a swap eventually. 

In general it's easiest to start with the best bones possible. For me that means double wishbones, light weight, and a big engine compartment. Those three things are much harder to change than a motor. 

Woody
Woody MegaDork
5/14/19 11:07 a.m.

Thank you. 

spacecadet
spacecadet HalfDork
5/14/19 1:26 p.m.

All the Accord V6 of this generation and newer had a 6speed Manual I believe... 

But the diff is definitely a high priority item IMHO.

The more time I spent in the Traccord and drove it... I realized how well thought out Buffalo's TL idea is.. 

I think the "easy button" would be to get a TL. If you want to just go run one lap and turn laps... The Traccord is the better tinker project.. But the TL has a lot of benefits... 

This is how I would setup a. Budget TL for OLOA..

Copy the backseat from the traccord, pull the passenger side portion and all the hardware... I cannot describe how crucial this is on a coupe... TL probably matters less.. But... 16:1 

go light on wheels and tires... lots of weight to be saved here... 

(optional) remove the driver seat for something much lighter.... Or don't... totally up to the owner.. But leave the passenger seat.. The recline function is very VERY choice...

(Optional) when you get to the track... PULL the passenger seat if you're really all about them pounds... 

The additional 90-100hp and shorter tighter gearing of the TL would have made a huge difference this year... 

Gearing would have helped the Accord.. But I would trade the power for the weight every day of the week... it makes it less punishing in laptimes to underdrive the car in corners... and the power really makes a difference everywhere.. 

spacecadet
spacecadet HalfDork
5/14/19 1:29 p.m.

I say all of that after having just bought a civic Si coupe with struts... 

If given the choice between the civic and the TL with a manual and a diff... both of same price, mechanical condition and physical condition.. 

I'd pick in this order...

4dr Si sedan

TL manual w/diff

Si coupe 

The Coupe is faster of all 3 out of the box.. But I know after spending a week in the Accord that I'd rather be in a TL for the week. There is a lot to be said for the silky midrange of the J32 motor. 

 

docwyte
docwyte UltraDork
5/14/19 1:41 p.m.

I disagree with the premise that you want to gut a car for One Lap.  One Lap is mostly spent on the transits, where comfort is very important.  Unless you're trying to place in the top ten, in which case you're a hot shoe, have done all the tracks multiple times ahead of time and are driving a super duper car to begin with, then go ahead and try to win at all costs.

Otherwise, go and have a good time and be comfortable.  Did removing the weight help lap times?  Yeah, I'm sure but spending time at the track ahead of time would've been far more beneficial. 

I did One Lap in a fully kitted B5 S4 avant, which probably weighed around 3700lbs or more.  It still hauled ass.  We still placed quite well on the tracks we knew.  We were extremely comfortable for the thousands of miles we drove on the transit stages. I wouldn't have changed anything on the car except maybe going to even larger brakes than I put on.

spacecadet
spacecadet HalfDork
5/14/19 1:58 p.m.

In reply to docwyte :

Pulling half the rear seat is more about the extra interior room gained for stuff than about weight. 

The C5 that placed 10th with a little aero and a basically stock LS1 pulled the passenger seat for at least 1 event. 

Pulling the driver seat is also something I'd do because I would expect to slide a bit on the leather... and I don't love that.. Lots of weight savings to be realized in pulling the driver seat for something lighter.. 

 

I plan to pull half the civic rear seat when I take that car on OLOA. 

 

klodkrawler05
klodkrawler05 Reader
5/14/19 2:34 p.m.

I can see the appeal of removing as much of the rear seat as possible, easier access to the trunk for snacks, chargers what have you, more room for the front passenger to recline the seat should they desire etc.  Plus all the crap for 3 dudes and a week worth of track stuff does a pretty good job muffling the interior. 

Less weight is easier on tires/brakes too which is always helpful in any type of endurance event. Not that there's anything wrong with touring the country and visiting new tracks for a week. It's just not very GRM when weight removal is free.

 

spacecadet
spacecadet HalfDork
5/14/19 2:55 p.m.
klodkrawler05 said:

It's just not very GRM when weight removal is free.

There was 1 time during the week we could have used the seatbelt.. And it was to aid a competitor who's 4 wheels would no longer held air.. But the Team Toyota PE sienna was only a short time behind us and they picked them up instead and they knew they were coming..

 

Otherwise the seatbelt and seat latch hardware was fully useless weight we would have been dragging around.. 

 

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
5/14/19 3:42 p.m.

In reply to spacecadet :

We will agree to disagree. The weight in the TL is evident and I want none of it even if it means lower lap times. Part of what makes this hobby fun. If we all had the same tastes we'd all be in Miatas. laugh

In reply to docwyte :

We pulled half the back seat for space not weight. The weight was a nice side effect but what we needed with three people in the car was that couple of extra cubic feet. It mattered. Even something as trivial as removing the center console turned out the be great as the guy in the back seat could stretch a leg or two into that space. If I had to do it again I wouldn't bother pulling the belts (that was a pain) but I'd still do the half seat. I do agree that the interior is nice but accept the fact that others are willing to go farther (and faster?) than me. Big sport, lots of ways to play. 

QuicktrickGil
QuicktrickGil New Reader
5/14/19 3:46 p.m.

Well it's great to see you guys didn't have any mechanical headaches throughout the week. As far as the ideal J series powered chassis. I think sticking with the Accord is most likely the best option. A base model TL drivetrain in the Accord would be great. The more courses I drive in mine, it seems that 2/3/4 all seem to have a gray area that induces a ton of shifting, and pondering on which gear should be used. I feel as if the LSD in the TL trans would pull out of the corners exponentially better than the Accord does in it's current state. Between these two pieces of information from Honda/Acura seems that the differences in gearing are minimal. The only changes in gearing are 5th & 6th. That Accord chassis peeled all the way down with the TL drivetrain would be an absolute monster, just need to solve the poor front geometry after all is said and done. I also recently found a company that rebuilds, and installs an insert in the TL-S calipers to run on other Honda chassis'. (Third Link)

https://hondanews.com/releases/2005-acura-tl-specifications?page=37&query=sohc

https://owners.honda.com/vehicles/information/2003/Accord-Coupe/specs#mid^CM8173JNW

https://visionautoworks.com/collections/chassis-products/products/tl-s-brembo-caliper-kit


 

spacecadet
spacecadet HalfDork
5/14/19 9:27 p.m.
mazdeuce - Seth said:

In reply to spacecadet :

We will agree to disagree. The weight in the TL is evident and I want none of it even if it means lower lap times. Part of what makes this hobby fun. If we all had the same tastes we'd all be in Miatas. laugh

truth.. 

spacecadet
spacecadet HalfDork
5/14/19 9:33 p.m.

So i store all my photos in google photo... and my "google assistant" will occasionally do some fun stuff with them. 

 

 

my 2 favorites of the week.. 

google created the panorama from a series of shots i took and I took the mclaren shot and Google played with the filters.. 

 

spacecadet
spacecadet HalfDork
5/24/19 3:35 p.m.

I have been following project import on Instagram and seen occasional shots of this car which I've shared with Seth. 

This is the best picture i've seen of their accord yet. 

shagles
shagles New Reader
7/17/19 7:59 a.m.

Mazdeuce, just in case you haven’t seen it already, there’s a V6 accord motor and 6MT trans for sale up here in dfw. 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/201727686508558/permalink/2659015827446386?sale_post_id=2659015827446386&sfns=mo

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
7/17/19 9:30 a.m.

In reply to shagles :

Spacecadet is a good friend of Todd and I've spent a bit of time driving cars with him as well. He's a good guy and we've discussed me buying this. It's just not quite what I'm looking for. In all honesty it would get me 90% of the way there for 30% of the cost, but I'm not in a hurry. 

Subscriber-unavailabile
Subscriber-unavailabile Reader
7/17/19 10:12 a.m.

If you want a better cheap platform there’s $2k 3 series on Craigslist all day long here in Austin

spacecadet
spacecadet Dork
7/17/19 11:36 a.m.
shagles said:

Mazdeuce, just in case you haven’t seen it already, there’s a V6 accord motor and 6MT trans for sale up here in dfw. 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/201727686508558/permalink/2659015827446386?sale_post_id=2659015827446386&sfns=mo

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  I've literally been trying to get Seth to buy that for 9+ months.. 

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
7/23/19 8:32 p.m.

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

Looks like the six-speed manual 2003 Accord V6 only came on the EX trim, which included leather and moonroof.

spacecadet
spacecadet Dork
7/23/19 9:30 p.m.

In reply to David S. Wallens :

yep, they wouldn't roll out the EX-L designation until 2008 when the EX-L V6 Coupe became the way to get the V6 and 6 Speed and the V6 became the J35 with 270hp... as opposed to the J30 which the 03-07 accord had with 240-244 hp depending on the year. 

I've spent way too much time looking at Acura TL and Honda Accord specs being friends with Seth, Tim and Cameron Goode. 

 

RedGT
RedGT Dork
7/24/19 8:56 a.m.

You've still got me shopping around for V6 manual Accords for a daily.  I hate you.  Hoping to find one in November-December when it seems like nobody buys cars around here and prices drop a bit.  $5k for a perfect one is a dang bargain for what it is but more than I'm going to spend.

spacecadet
spacecadet Dork
7/24/19 11:39 a.m.

In reply to RedGT :

The V6 manuals are fairly rare and If you want to score a deal you'll need to cast a wide net.

Checking autotrader there's a few nationwide under the $4k mark. 

Number1Gaza
Number1Gaza None
7/31/19 5:20 p.m.

I made an account on this site specifically because of this thread.  Seth thanks for your pioneering work and more importantly your efforts actually taking pictures and documenting everything you are doing to the Accord.  

I have an ‘06 6 speed sedan.  It’s a pig compared to the 4 cyl coupe, but you documenting all the ways I can cut weight has inspired me.  My accord is going on a diet starting this weekend.  

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
7/31/19 8:42 p.m.

In reply to Number1Gaza :

That's awesome. Feel free to either start a thread or glom on to this one to ask questions or post pictuers showing how the sedans and V6 cars in general are different. The more good info we can collect the better. 

I'm about one week away from pulling my car out of summer storage and I'm looking forward to getting back behind the wheel and sorting out some things left over from spring.

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