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TurnerX19
TurnerX19 Dork
12/2/19 9:27 p.m.

In reply to LanEvo :

TR4 engine bay is much wider and a little longer than a stock Spridget engine bay. Triumph engine was pretty tall for a pushrod unit too, Height is not going to be the issue. Oil pan to frame may be for some. Hell, Triumph themselves made a twin cam head for the TRS and it went into a prototype of the TR4 for LeMans. 

NoPermitNeeded
NoPermitNeeded Reader
12/2/19 9:58 p.m.

could consider a Mercruise 470, IIRC it's essentially half a big-block ford with a chevy bellhousing pattern.  Aluminum block standard and if you throw on an aluminum BBF head it couldn't weigh more than would be easily offset by the increase in power. 

Robbie
Robbie MegaDork
12/2/19 10:58 p.m.
AngryCorvair said:
Robbie said:

Oh man. Loving this! I'll be posting my build thread today for a challenge build very similar...

waiting...

Delivery:

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/datsun-roadster-2020-challenge-build/161581/page1/

LanEvo
LanEvo Dork
12/4/19 12:54 p.m.

The FIAT 1.4L turbo is starting to look like a winner.

About as small as you can get for a twin-cam four. Available in a RWD platform, which shares the same 6-speed trans as a modern Miata. They go for $500-700 on eBay, often complete with turbo, intercooler, etc. 

I'm assuming they're direct-injected and drive-by-wire. Not sure how all that could be made to work in a swap.

Robbie
Robbie MegaDork
12/4/19 2:51 p.m.

Ooooooooooh!

pres589 (djronnebaum)
pres589 (djronnebaum) PowerDork
12/4/19 3:19 p.m.

It would be a lot of work, but what about the GM High Value 3900?  It seems like the last, best application of the 60 degree V6, which in theory should be supported to swap into RWD application with factory parts.  They definitely put down decent power numbers for what is a relatively compact engine.  I don't know about the oil pan issues.

LanEvo
LanEvo Dork
12/7/19 3:58 p.m.

Another option is a 4-cylinder Lampredi engine. Found a bunch of 1.8L from FIAT 124 Spiders. There's a clean 2.0L from a Lancia Beta coupe. Seems tiny with a very low deck height (for a DOHC engine)

frenchyd
frenchyd PowerDork
12/7/19 4:27 p.m.

In reply to LanEvo :

The cheap solution is a ran when wrecked car.  Look in the engine compartment and as long as the damage didn't break stuff on the engine You're good.  
check Co-part and IAAI  pick up something in the $2-300 range ( you'll pay fees  above that, but still should be able to drag it home under about $500). 
 

Take what you need for a running engine transmission, drive shaft.  Grab the instruments while you're in there.  
 

If I scored that TR4 I'd buy a Jaguar sedan with the 4.0 liter six cylinder.  You'd be amazed at how neatly that will fit. It's all aluminum so probably the same weight as the tractor motors they came with originally. About 240 horsepower unless you luck out and get the supercharged one then it's 315   It has an astonishingly flat torque curve and is reliable as they get. Once you've taken everything from the car, call around and see who will give you the most for what's left ( we've got a Jaguar only junkyYard nearby). 
 

Me? I'd grab the front spindles,  brakes, wheels and whole rear end I know I can adapt them easily enough.  But then I can weld. 

Stampie
Stampie UltimaDork
12/7/19 4:35 p.m.

Lol I saw frenchyd and said betcha he recommends a Jag engine.

Indy-Guy
Indy-Guy PowerDork
12/7/19 5:10 p.m.

In reply to Stampie :

True.

Robbie
Robbie MegaDork
12/7/19 6:53 p.m.

Yeah but it's not a bad idea at all... If you're ok with auto.

90s jags with the 6 are like less than free.

Imagine how fast a jag would be if you cut the weight from 4k to 2k and then upped the rear gear from 2.8 to 3.9 haha. For the challenge throw 100 hp of nitrous at it too.

LanEvo
LanEvo Dork
12/7/19 7:07 p.m.

My idea is to basically make a "go car." I really want a small engine tucked back against the firewall. Carbs are a plus. Minimal wiring. 
 

I think that kind of thing is really cool. And I have very little fabrication skill ... so simpler is better for me

TVR Scott
TVR Scott HalfDork
12/7/19 7:10 p.m.
Stampie said:

Lol I saw frenchyd and said betcha he recommends a Jag engine.

Sometimes I daydream about that 3.0 V6 in the Jags.  I saw a couple videos about those getting swapped into Miatas.  Quite the sound-track there.

Or the 3.7 Mustang V6.  I find that a terribly interesting engine.

Indy-Guy
Indy-Guy PowerDork
12/7/19 7:23 p.m.
LanEvo said:

My idea is to basically make a "go car." I really want a small engine tucked back against the firewall. Carbs are a plus. Minimal wiring. 
 

I think that kind of thing is really cool. And I have very little fabrication skill ... so simpler is better for me

Sounds like you want what's currently in my TR4. 

Carbed, check:

Up against the firewall, check:

Simple wiring, check:

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
12/7/19 7:25 p.m.

My vote is 3400/3500 gm. In a miata its way faster than an amc. Lighter car, more better!

Stampie
Stampie UltimaDork
12/7/19 7:35 p.m.
TVR Scott said:
Stampie said:

Lol I saw frenchyd and said betcha he recommends a Jag engine.

Sometimes I daydream about that 3.0 V6 in the Jags.  I saw a couple videos about those getting swapped into Miatas.  Quite the sound-track there.

Or the 3.7 Mustang V6.  I find that a terribly interesting engine.

A V6 would for the purposes here great but IMHO the VQ35 at 280hp factory is hard to beat.  They're all over the place plus it has all kinds of aftermarket support.

TurnerX19
TurnerX19 Dork
12/7/19 10:22 p.m.

That V6 is not the engine to use unless you can cut the battery tray area and move it back about 6 inches. Lampredi DOHC is a somewhat better choice, but even as a Fiat owner (Lampredi SOHC) I wouldn't.

frenchyd
frenchyd PowerDork
12/7/19 11:03 p.m.
Stampie said:

Lol I saw frenchyd and said betcha he recommends a Jag engine.

That's a given. There is a real reason I've stayed with Jaguar for these decades.  I'm cheap, they offer tremendous value for little money. 

RichardSIA
RichardSIA Reader
12/7/19 11:03 p.m.

Uhh, sorry I looked those engines up.

I find their over the top complexity obscene.

I will be sticking to much simpler carbureted engines.

Only one exception, an IR FI Buick V6, only because the Weber IDA-3's are crazy priced.

 

frenchyd
frenchyd PowerDork
12/7/19 11:13 p.m.
Robbie said:

Yeah but it's not a bad idea at all... If you're ok with auto.

90s jags with the 6 are like less than free.

Imagine how fast a jag would be if you cut the weight from 4k to 2k and then upped the rear gear from 2.8 to 3.9 haha. For the challenge throw 100 hp of nitrous at it too.

Too bad you didn't read the opening sentence. I'm too cheap to buy from some dealers lot.   I prefer to shop at insurance auctions.  Especially if you avoid the XJS, the 4 door sedans with body damage go for just about scrap value. Especially the 300 series cars. We call 'em the square cars. They are so unloved I've seen them on car lots really cheap So a few thousand dollars worth of dented sheet metal makes them scrap prices.  
Poor sales of that style led to Jaguar's near failure  and are really what led Jaguar to approach GM.  
But they have the 3.6 or 4.0 engine.  

Robbie
Robbie MegaDork
12/7/19 11:20 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

Uh, no I'm agreeing with you completely. When I said you can get the cars "less than free" I meant you can get them really really cheap.

frenchyd
frenchyd PowerDork
12/7/19 11:26 p.m.
LanEvo said:

My idea is to basically make a "go car." I really want a small engine tucked back against the firewall. Carbs are a plus. Minimal wiring. 
 

I think that kind of thing is really cool. And I have very little fabrication skill ... so simpler is better for me

With some fabrication skill you could modify the fuel injection manifold and put 3  inch and a half SU's on.  
lose 10-15 horsepower I suppose. 
it would be so much simpler to use the Fuel injection  because it was a running car before the accident .  If the wiring loom is too long ( it would be) you can do what I do. Cut it to length in the middle then match wires and join them together.  You don't need to know what the yellow wire with the brown and green line does. Just join it to the other yellow wire with the brown and green.  A ten minute lesson on joining wires and using shrink tubing to cover them. A hour or two and you're back running. 

keithedwards
keithedwards Reader
12/8/19 4:46 a.m.
keithedwards said:
LanEvo said:

Could also be mixed-and-matched parts. I'll check the VIN and see if I can figure out what's going on there. 

Good idea. The TR4A frames are somewhat bell-shaped (versus straight). Pop out a jack hole plug in either footwell, and see if the frame has a notch and support for a jack.TR4As used the same floor panels (and jack hole plugs), but no provision for the little jack.

I did a little more thinking about how to easily distinguish between a TR4 and a TR4A. The TR4s had a long emergency brake handle along the right-hand side of the transmission tunnel, whereas the TR4As had a short handle in the middle of the tunnel. Less obvious, TR4As had bolt-on brackets for the front lower control arm mounts. TR4s had a long overflow tube/vent attached with a banjo bolt, at the top of the gas tank, on one side, so they had an un-vented gas cap. TR4As didn't, so they had a vented gas cap. Ask me how I learnd that the hard way...

 

LanEvo
LanEvo Dork
12/8/19 9:52 a.m.
keithedwards said:

TR4As used the same floor panels (and jack hole plugs), but no provision for the little jack.

 

Is this what you mean?

davbro
davbro New Reader
12/8/19 4:50 p.m.

Really nice find!  there are not many options remaining for a simple 4 cylinder setup.  Its screaming for a rotary tho!...but that would not be an easy build.

Seems like for what you want a KA24 from a nissan 240SX would do the trick.  Already a rwd setup and there carb setups available...it would be aesthetically pleasing with the retro looking valve cover and you should be able to find one within budget.  Either way you cannot go wrong with that beautiful TR4...cant wait to see it at the challenge

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