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Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
7/22/19 10:25 p.m.

Grinder to the parts you are welding to, who cares about the rest.  Let it smoke after you weld, who cares.

 

OTOH I also will happily weld right through paint, start an arc to burn that E36 M3 away, wait a minute, and keep on truckin'.

 

 

artur1808
artur1808 Reader
7/23/19 7:13 a.m.

Wow, it looks like you and I have gone down completely inverse routes. I used to rallycross a nearly identical Volvo 240 in MR in the Detroit region, which I decided not to build for stage rally due to some rust issues that I didn't want to deal with, and the chassis had nearly 400,000 miles on it:

 

So I sold that and am now building an e30 with the ultimate goal of stage rally:

 

Needless to say, I'm very excited to follow along with this build!

Nesegleh
Nesegleh New Reader
7/23/19 11:53 a.m.

In reply to artur1808 :

I've actually been watching your thread, car looks like it's coming along well! How long until you get it on stage? 

TBH I wanted to go with an e30 but I pretty much gave up on that after months of browsing Craiglist listings asking 3k+ for etas.

artur1808
artur1808 Reader
7/23/19 12:32 p.m.

In reply to Nesegleh :

The goal is to get a cage in it early 2020 and get on stage later that year. 

Did you ever figure out your motor mount situation. If I recall correctly, I've heard of people using hockey pucks with relative success. 

Nesegleh
Nesegleh New Reader
7/23/19 12:59 p.m.

In reply to artur1808 :

Eh it still has the UHMW mounts in it. Eventually going to switch to HD rubber (or maybe poly, idk yet) with an extra torque mount when I get sick of the vibrations. 

artur1808
artur1808 Reader
7/23/19 1:36 p.m.

In reply to Nesegleh :

Even the stock mounts would probably be fine if you could come up with a way to add a 3rd engine mount. Not sure how much truth there is to this, but I heard that the reason the volvo mounts are so weak is because the engine was designed to shear those mounts and go under the trans tunnel in an accident, rather than coming through the firewall. Again, not sure if there's any truth to that, but it's a nice story. Seems that adding a 3rd mount that doesn't let it move fore/aft could help the 2 factory mounts last. 

Nesegleh
Nesegleh New Reader
7/23/19 4:14 p.m.

In reply to artur1808 :

Yea I've heard the same about the stock mounts. Think it just means that Volvo made them soft (and without a bolt running the whole way through) in general, not just fore/aft. Check out the previous page of this thread, TurnerX19 posted some pics of his third mount. That is where most people put them to stop the engine from twisting under acceleration. 

Nesegleh
Nesegleh New Reader
7/23/19 4:21 p.m.

Removed the roof rack, because racecars don't have roof racks. No key for it, so I drilled out the lip on one side of the rivet (much easier than cutting or grinding it off) that the clamp piece pivots on. Vise grips on the head to keep it from spinning. 

 

Nesegleh
Nesegleh New Reader
7/23/19 4:44 p.m.

Got to take the car out for a drive for the first time in months the other day, which was a bit exciting.

I'm not sure if it's due to the weight I took out of the rear (which wasn't all that much tbh), the bushings, or just the new springs themselves, but damn the rear feels stiff! And not in a good way... Rear end almost felt like it was coming off the ground going over speedbumps, certainly not eating them the way the e30 does. Might switch back to stock springs for the August rallycross (assuming the car is ready at all), and save the new rears for when I have a cage and a spare in the rear. 

Suspension in general feels pretty terrible, but I have some things coming that will hopefully fix that :). Ordered some mk2 escort rally inserts for super cheap from the UK, going to see if it's viable to adapt them with custom strut tubes and top mounts. 

 

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ UberDork
7/24/19 6:27 a.m.

In reply to Nesegleh :

Have you seen the Rix univeral housings for Bilstein inserts?  That's what I used to make my front struts:  Linky

irish44j
irish44j MegaDork
7/24/19 12:37 p.m.
Nesegleh said:

Got to take the car out for a drive for the first time in months the other day, which was a bit exciting.

I'm not sure if it's due to the weight I took out of the rear (which wasn't all that much tbh), the bushings, or just the new springs themselves, but damn the rear feels stiff! And not in a good way... Rear end almost felt like it was coming off the ground going over speedbumps, certainly not eating them the way the e30 does. Might switch back to stock springs for the August rallycross (assuming the car is ready at all), and save the new rears for when I have a cage and a spare in the rear. 

Suspension in general feels pretty terrible, but I have some things coming that will hopefully fix that :). Ordered some mk2 escort rally inserts for super cheap from the UK, going to see if it's viable to adapt them with custom strut tubes and top mounts. 

 

 

interesting. I am on the verge of ordering the same inserts for the e30. You got the Gp4 gravel ones?

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
7/24/19 12:41 p.m.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

In reply to Nesegleh :

Have you seen the Rix univeral housings for Bilstein inserts?  That's what I used to make my front struts:  Linky

Oooh.

 

Wait, that's Motorsport Tools?  They also sell (Or used to sell) complete new MkII Escort shells.  Shipping would probably be a pain though.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ UberDork
7/24/19 12:47 p.m.

In reply to Knurled. :

Yep.  I've also ordered some strut pieces from Gartrac but they have less universal stuff.  Both ship quickly and had no issue selling across the pond.

Nesegleh
Nesegleh New Reader
7/24/19 4:01 p.m.

In reply to irish44j :

I got one of these. I don't know if there is a difference between gravel and tarmac inserts besides the valving, but I got those because the valving is better suited to my car (and probably e30's as well). Also got one of these. I'm hoping I can just redrill and tap the holes for the top mount but we'll see.

Purpose right now (and why I only bought one of each) is just to take measurements and see if I can come up with a design that I can realistically make, and also determine what length I'm looking at for the strut housing. I'll post the measurements when I get em.

irish44j
irish44j MegaDork
7/24/19 4:19 p.m.
Nesegleh said:

In reply to irish44j :

I got one of these. I don't know if there is a difference between gravel and tarmac inserts besides the valving, but I got those because the valving is better suited to my car (and probably e30's as well). Also got one of these. I'm hoping I can just redrill and tap the holes for the top mount but we'll see.

Purpose right now (and why I only bought one of each) is just to take measurements and see if I can come up with a design that I can realistically make, and also determine what length I'm looking at for the strut housing. I'll post the measurements when I get em.

That's the tarmac valving (even says so at the top ;) ). 

The other one is valved for gravel/forest

https://www.demon-tweeks.com/us/bilstein-group-4-escort-mk1-mk2-front-gravel-long-insert-260-60-blsf4-xde-g778-t0/

As to the top hats....not personally a fan of spherical (anything) for rally, unless you're gonna be religious about taking it apart and cleaning it all the time. 

Nesegleh
Nesegleh New Reader
7/24/19 4:31 p.m.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

In reply to Nesegleh :

Have you seen the Rix univeral housings for Bilstein inserts?  That's what I used to make my front struts:  Linky

I've seen similar ones but those look very nice. Did you run the escort inserts or other? 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ UberDork
7/24/19 4:31 p.m.

In reply to irish44j :

Valved for gravel... on a light Escort.  300/100 should be about right for the Volvo, it's what I run on the Merkur.

In reply to Nesegleh:

Yep, same ones.

Nesegleh
Nesegleh New Reader
7/24/19 4:48 p.m.
irish44j said:
Nesegleh said:

In reply to irish44j :

I got one of these. I don't know if there is a difference between gravel and tarmac inserts besides the valving, but I got those because the valving is better suited to my car (and probably e30's as well). Also got one of these. I'm hoping I can just redrill and tap the holes for the top mount but we'll see.

Purpose right now (and why I only bought one of each) is just to take measurements and see if I can come up with a design that I can realistically make, and also determine what length I'm looking at for the strut housing. I'll post the measurements when I get em.

That's the tarmac valving (even says so at the top ;) ). 

The other one is valved for gravel/forest

https://www.demon-tweeks.com/us/bilstein-group-4-escort-mk1-mk2-front-gravel-long-insert-260-60-blsf4-xde-g778-t0/

As to the top hats....not personally a fan of spherical (anything) for rally, unless you're gonna be religious about taking it apart and cleaning it all the time. 

I know they're for tarmac silly smiley. My question is whether there are other changes beside the slightly more aggressive valving at the point they're measured at. They could have less travel and different valving curves. I doubt it but I don't know. Want to go with more aggressive ones because 260/60 on a car heavier than an escort (what are they in race spec, like 2200lbs running 145 lb/in springs?) seems a bit wimpy. 300/100 should be proper on a 240.

As for top hats... yea I get that. But I feel like I would blow through rubber ones with stiffer springs and poly everywhere. How well do yours hold up at stage events?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ UberDork
7/24/19 4:50 p.m.

In reply to Nesegleh :

I'm about 95% sure it's just valving, and maybe which bumstops are included, but I haven't disassembled to check so YMMV.  I can say with certainty that the "tarmac" 300/100s work just fine on gravel though.

irish44j
irish44j MegaDork
7/24/19 5:29 p.m.
Nesegleh said:
irish44j said:
Nesegleh said:

In reply to irish44j :

I got one of these. I don't know if there is a difference between gravel and tarmac inserts besides the valving, but I got those because the valving is better suited to my car (and probably e30's as well). Also got one of these. I'm hoping I can just redrill and tap the holes for the top mount but we'll see.

Purpose right now (and why I only bought one of each) is just to take measurements and see if I can come up with a design that I can realistically make, and also determine what length I'm looking at for the strut housing. I'll post the measurements when I get em.

That's the tarmac valving (even says so at the top ;) ). 

The other one is valved for gravel/forest

https://www.demon-tweeks.com/us/bilstein-group-4-escort-mk1-mk2-front-gravel-long-insert-260-60-blsf4-xde-g778-t0/

As to the top hats....not personally a fan of spherical (anything) for rally, unless you're gonna be religious about taking it apart and cleaning it all the time. 

I know they're for tarmac silly smiley. My question is whether there are other changes beside the slightly more aggressive valving at the point they're measured at. They could have less travel and different valving curves. I doubt it but I don't know. Want to go with more aggressive ones because 260/60 on a car heavier than an escort (what are they in race spec, like 2200lbs running 145 lb/in springs?) seems a bit wimpy. 300/100 should be proper on a 240.

As for top hats... yea I get that. But I feel like I would blow through rubber ones with stiffer springs and poly everywhere. How well do yours hold up at stage events?

I've literally replaced them once in 9 years, and it was preventative. And those are OEM BMW (m3) ones. 

irish44j
irish44j MegaDork
7/24/19 5:31 p.m.
Nesegleh said:
irish44j said:
Nesegleh said:

In reply to irish44j :

I got one of these. I don't know if there is a difference between gravel and tarmac inserts besides the valving, but I got those because the valving is better suited to my car (and probably e30's as well). Also got one of these. I'm hoping I can just redrill and tap the holes for the top mount but we'll see.

Purpose right now (and why I only bought one of each) is just to take measurements and see if I can come up with a design that I can realistically make, and also determine what length I'm looking at for the strut housing. I'll post the measurements when I get em.

That's the tarmac valving (even says so at the top ;) ). 

The other one is valved for gravel/forest

https://www.demon-tweeks.com/us/bilstein-group-4-escort-mk1-mk2-front-gravel-long-insert-260-60-blsf4-xde-g778-t0/

As to the top hats....not personally a fan of spherical (anything) for rally, unless you're gonna be religious about taking it apart and cleaning it all the time. 

I know they're for tarmac silly smiley. My question is whether there are other changes beside the slightly more aggressive valving at the point they're measured at. They could have less travel and different valving curves.\

The length was my concern. I'm still trying to figure out the insert length of the Escort "long" ones to compare to e30 HD housings for fit. So whe you get yours I will likely ask for some measurements. 

Nesegleh
Nesegleh New Reader
7/24/19 9:12 p.m.

In reply to irish44j :

You gonna try and use the HD housings?

irish44j
irish44j MegaDork
7/24/19 9:56 p.m.
Nesegleh said:

In reply to irish44j :

You gonna try and use the HD housings?

well, I need to determine if they'll fit correctly, but if so, yes.  I'm in no big rush though. My HDs on the car are almost brand-new and I have a spare set too. So this is somethign I'm thinking about before next stage rally season, basically. I think the HDs are plenty sufficient for rallycross and to get me through STPR. 

irish44j
irish44j MegaDork
7/25/19 4:43 p.m.

btw, from a very experienced e30 rally driver in the UK, regarding damper rates. Granted this is for an e30 and Volvo is a bit heavier, but once you have cage and spare tires and stuff the Volvo probably isn't THAT proportionally heavier.

Interesting that his spring rate advice is almost exactly what I currently have on my car, which I determined by my own calculations. 

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
7/25/19 5:06 p.m.
irish44j said:
Nesegleh said:

In reply to irish44j :

I got one of these. I don't know if there is a difference between gravel and tarmac inserts besides the valving, but I got those because the valving is better suited to my car (and probably e30's as well). Also got one of these. I'm hoping I can just redrill and tap the holes for the top mount but we'll see.

Purpose right now (and why I only bought one of each) is just to take measurements and see if I can come up with a design that I can realistically make, and also determine what length I'm looking at for the strut housing. I'll post the measurements when I get em.

That's the tarmac valving (even says so at the top ;) ). 

The other one is valved for gravel/forest

https://www.demon-tweeks.com/us/bilstein-group-4-escort-mk1-mk2-front-gravel-long-insert-260-60-blsf4-xde-g778-t0/

As to the top hats....not personally a fan of spherical (anything) for rally, unless you're gonna be religious about taking it apart and cleaning it all the time. 

I am assuming that those inserts are "dumb" inserts that need to go in a tube that has its own bushings/seals?

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