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wearymicrobe
wearymicrobe UberDork
6/30/20 10:14 a.m.

Plan: 

Plan is to build a 550 spyder to the highest quality possible using the spirit of the 201* ruleset. That means horse trading, buying old cars and cutting them apart for parts and selling off carcasses and doing absolutely everything myself.

A this is hampered by a living in California the land of paperwork and environmental reports

B I have not touched a aircooled VW since before I could drink. 

C I have 1000x the skills I did back then and all the tools to actually do this right. 

Things I will not be doing. Anything that is safety related is getting the 100% treatment, IE the cage will be bent and welded by a professional but I will do the painting and all the prep work. No used harnesses, I will have a full backed seat for track work. Same with painting the car. I will do all the blocking and sanding but I will have to have it sprayed professionally as I don't have the equipment to do it to CA law. 

Scope: 

Buy a complete kit from Vintage Motors inc, and then buy what I need to complete. Order list is below. Everything else is on me and I mean everything. 

Design philosophy. 

This car is going to answer some questions I have had for a long time, even asked about here, that I have never been able to answer myself. 

  • How light can I really build something. 
    • I mean really how light can I build something. 
  • How much tire do I really need if I build something in the 1300-1400lb range
  • How far can I take a VW suspension for autocross.
    • Can I design my own front arms for custom camber. 
    • does suspension even matter at this weight or are good tires and setup enough. 
  • Can I retrofit full EFI on a VW engine. 
  • Can I run alternate fuels with sensors and modified fuel maps. 
    • E85 and possibly boost
  • How hard is electronically controlled timing to add to older motors. 

Budget

This is the hard one but I have set a hard cap at 33K, I am already at 28K all in right now, including drivetrain and brakes, plus all parts I think I need I think I have 95% of what I need already. This is going to be tight but I like a challenge. Things like the aluminum interior or a the real fancy steering wheel may have to wait or be traded out for a turbo and E85 parts. Paint may also be off the table and I may just wrap the whole car in Nardo gray vinyl after I do the blocking work. 

Where are we now. 

Kit has been ordered, likely about two months to get it. Drivetrain needs to be extracted from donor car this week if engine passes inspection. Then there will be lots and lots of painting things black for this kit. 

I need to build a powder coating oven so I can blackout wheels and all sorts of stuff, always wanted to do it. I want to make and bend my own single bubble windshield over a form got some time to practice. 

Photos of where we are now. 

What I ordered. 

 

Car I think I may be getting. Kind of up in the air not sure if they have this one avalialbe or if its already sold. If so then I could get everything real fast. 

Seat color I picked for the street seats. 

Exhaust I paid for because it was faster/cheaper to buy then build 

Rear suspension that I ordered, not doing the QA1's I hate the QC on the modern QA1's. 

wearymicrobe
wearymicrobe UberDork
6/30/20 10:18 a.m.

The end goal is a car that replicates the look of this Nardo Gray car and its blacked out look. But that may change as I get into it. I will be doing 4 lug wheels and brakes for better selection though and I will have the front oil cooler cutouts in mine and I may make it functional. 

 

2016 Seduction Motorsports 550 Spyder Outlaw - NEW - Nardo Grey on ...

Emotional support cats. 

nocones
nocones UltraDork
6/30/20 10:46 a.m.

I'm looking forward to this.  I've always thought about a 550 or a 904.  Good luck.

As a reference for your how small of tire? my MG is 1500lbs/~160 WHP and I use a 245 Hoosier A7.  When it's cold I can't really get it up to temp.  For track use I can run a 20 min session in 90* heat and not have the tires get too hot.   I'm guessing I could get by with a 225 but I think a 195 would be to narrow and be prone to getting too hot.   Lateral grip is insane the car pulls 1.6 sustained Gs.   The 245s offer enough grip that accelerating out of anything above about a 30 mph corner traction is sufficient for the power.  

The nice thing about this weight with a good suspension geometry is that wear item use is crazy low.  Autox I got nearly 150 runs on the Hoosiers without flipping them.  For track work I've got about 4 trackdays on the car and can't tell that the tires have been used.  They will age out before they wear out.  

secretariata (Forum Supporter)
secretariata (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
6/30/20 10:57 a.m.

You really must like a challenge. Emotional support cats! That is an added level of difficulty for sure.   laugh

wearymicrobe
wearymicrobe UberDork
6/30/20 10:59 a.m.
nocones said:

I'm looking forward to this.  I've always thought about a 550 or a 904.  Good luck.

As a reference for your how small of tire? my MG is 1500lbs/~160 WHP and I use a 245 Hoosier A7.  When it's cold I can't really get it up to temp.  For track use I can run a 20 min session in 90* heat and not have the tires get too hot.   I'm guessing I could get by with a 225 but I think a 195 would be to narrow and be prone to getting too hot.   Lateral grip is insane the car pulls 1.6 sustained Gs.   The 245s offer enough grip that accelerating out of anything above about a 30 mph corner traction is sufficient for the power.  

The nice thing about this weight with a good suspension geometry is that wear item use is crazy low.  Autox I got nearly 150 runs on the Hoosiers without flipping them.  For track work I've got about 4 trackdays on the car and can't tell that the tires have been used.  They will age out before they wear out.  

Lots of replies today I am off work this week which is a first and the house is pretty and truly done and even clean . 

I was thinking VENTUS Z214 as they have that is a size that work and I hear that they will actually heat up with track work. Friends tell me to do a vintage race tire and just slide all around and have fun. May buy extra set of wheels just for that and so I can show the car on vintage rubber. 

 

mfennell
mfennell Reader
6/30/20 11:56 a.m.

I love those cars but man are they small.   One of my neighbors had a Vintage with a turbo subaru drivetrain.  It was a hoot but it made my FFR feel substantial in comparison.

 

Woody
Woody MegaDork
6/30/20 12:05 p.m.

Cool!

Have you considered starting with a 914 2.0 as a mechanical donor?

nderwater
nderwater UltimaDork
6/30/20 12:30 p.m.

I got to sit in an a 550 Spyder kit car at Goodwood and man it was it was a jewel. Looking forward to this build.

wearymicrobe
wearymicrobe UberDork
6/30/20 12:43 p.m.
Woody said:

Cool!

Have you considered starting with a 914 2.0 as a mechanical donor?

Significantly more cost and I built a 914 before to a full 100% best in country concourse quality once so I have been down that path. I like type 1 stuff more then 4 now for some reason and the chassis are already setup four it. Since I am in the car heading out to pickup the motor right now not much I can do to back out. 

Slippery (Forum Supporter)
Slippery (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
6/30/20 1:27 p.m.

Oh man, last year I was seriously considering a Beck that was for sale locally. There is not a day that goes by that I regret not picking it up. 

Will be following. 

 

spandak
spandak HalfDork
6/30/20 1:28 p.m.

Oh yes. 
I saw a "little bastard" replica on PCH about a week ago. They're just so cool. 
Good luck I'll be following!

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr UberDork
6/30/20 1:37 p.m.
wearymicrobe said:
nocones said:

I'm looking forward to this.  I've always thought about a 550 or a 904.  Good luck.

As a reference for your how small of tire? my MG is 1500lbs/~160 WHP and I use a 245 Hoosier A7.  When it's cold I can't really get it up to temp.  For track use I can run a 20 min session in 90* heat and not have the tires get too hot.   I'm guessing I could get by with a 225 but I think a 195 would be to narrow and be prone to getting too hot.   Lateral grip is insane the car pulls 1.6 sustained Gs.   The 245s offer enough grip that accelerating out of anything above about a 30 mph corner traction is sufficient for the power.  

The nice thing about this weight with a good suspension geometry is that wear item use is crazy low.  Autox I got nearly 150 runs on the Hoosiers without flipping them.  For track work I've got about 4 trackdays on the car and can't tell that the tires have been used.  They will age out before they wear out.  

Lots of replies today I am off work this week which is a first and the house is pretty and truly done and even clean . 

I was thinking VENTUS Z214 as they have that is a size that work and I hear that they will actually heat up with track work. Friends tell me to do a vintage race tire and just slide all around and have fun. May buy extra set of wheels just for that and so I can show the car on vintage rubber. 

 

If you are looking for a do everything tire that grips pretty damn well, I would look at hankook rs4.  Last forever, good on the street, auto and track.  Plus, they have a bunch of 15 inch sizes that would probably work well on that car.  The whole way up to 245s.

 

I race a 2200# rx7 with a gm v6 in it (about 200 hp).  I don't have any issue with grip or traction with these tires.  Plus, they will last an entire 24hour race getting murdered.

Ian F (Forum Supporter)
Ian F (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
6/30/20 1:49 p.m.

I see the emotional support cats are looking forward to their new shedding receptacle. wink

Funny... whenever I picked up the ex's two cats like that, all they would do is hiss and try to kill each other.

Looking forward to this build. smiley

Saron81
Saron81 Reader
6/30/20 2:25 p.m.

CB performance does EFI for air cooleds. 

ultraclyde (Forum Supporter)
ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) UltimaDork
6/30/20 2:49 p.m.

I predict much success as you have already given photographic evidence of your cat herding prowess. 

californiamilleghia
californiamilleghia Dork
6/30/20 3:13 p.m.

can you get the discs in Porsche 5 bolt pattern , 5x130mm ,  then you could use steel 911 rims

as said CB performance does EFI  but its a few years old design  ,  is Megasquirt worth doing ?

I love the  shift linkage on the end of the transmission , is that from Vintage ?

Rancho is the go to shop for VW gearboxes , 

Looks like you will have a busy summer !

 

wearymicrobe
wearymicrobe UberDork
6/30/20 6:01 p.m.

https://i.imgur.com/Fz6cmdi.jpg

 

So the donor is here and runs well  body will be off by tomorrow and everything will start getting cleaned up and painted  

 

definitely making some yard art with the body for a few weeks  

Slippery (Forum Supporter)
Slippery (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
6/30/20 8:46 p.m.

What year? Looks like a '68+ based on the fuel filler. 

What all do you need from the car?

vwfreek
vwfreek Reader
6/30/20 9:05 p.m.

Check out The Dub Shop for air cooled EFI parts.

 

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
6/30/20 10:57 p.m.

The experimental aircraft community still uses VW based conversions for a lot of designs. There might be some upgrades lurking there. Aero-Vee is a name that seems to come up often.

wearymicrobe
wearymicrobe UberDork
6/30/20 11:00 p.m.

So body is off the frame. That was fun had to torch and cut out three bolts. 

So far I have found. 

  • Brand new tires
  • The motor looks 100% like it has the 40 miles the seller said. 
  • High flow duel fuel pump and good filters. 
  • High torque starter. 
  • Carbs look spotless. 
  • Gas in tank smells bad but not horrible. 
  • Brand new disk brakes up front and the rears have new pads and no leaks. 
  • Engine makes really good pressure. 
  • ~1 year old battery
  • Braided brake lines 
  • A bunch of Jasco? breather billet. 
  • Empi distributor 
  • Basically ZERO wiring. 

OEM glass everywhere except the front. New rubber on all of it.

 

The bad the body is great for a baja bug build zero rust but they painted it with exopy paint and I can hit it with a hammer and it does not come off. Looks like it was red originally and the paint was in good shape too under the fuel tank. 

 

Photos tomorrow once I get the motor on the stand and start flipping the gears. Then painting and cleaning and I am pretty much done until the kit shows up. 

Patrick (Forum Supporter)
Patrick (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
7/1/20 7:03 a.m.

Let me know if you hit any snags and need anything vw. I need to clear out my shelves

TVR Scott (Forum Supporter)
TVR Scott (Forum Supporter) Dork
7/1/20 7:46 a.m.

That engine sounds like one heck of a starting place.

I'll be watching with interest!

wearymicrobe
wearymicrobe UberDork
7/1/20 1:38 p.m.

Photos pending soon. Should have the transmission gear flipped and everything on the shelf ready for cleaning and painting by the end of the evening. Need to put the body and the slider up on Samba for beer. Going to put the transmission out back and cover it in aircraft stripper. It clean on the inside so far but has a horrible tar like substance all over it. I was able to blast most of it off with the pressure washer though. 

So next thing is prepping the space. Going to get some photos of other cars so I can build out what I need. 

There is a last as long as my arm of small VW stuff I need I will email you guys when I have it together. Would love to buy from here instead of the web. 

wearymicrobe
wearymicrobe UberDork
7/1/20 3:32 p.m.

All broken down. Still need to flip ring gears my puller is not working today or these are really really in there. 

 

Going through the dual carb linkage right now.  Found two bad intake gaskets that I replaced from some of my old stock. Should be assembled tonight. Might get it on a stand and tune it but it takes up a lot of space in the garage when I borrow the stand. 

 

 

 

 

 

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