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bmw327 New Reader
6/23/09 6:07 p.m.
Sownman wrote: Yes twelve I'm certain most Ferrari owners have an X 1/9 tucked away for the days they really want some fun on the road. Jeez get real. Steve

Steve - That's funny...I've known a few Ferrari owners that actually do have X1/9's tucked away and they regard them pretty highly. I told you X'ers are a rabid bunch - even the ones that have Ferraris. Are you really pi$$ed off at what are essentially photos on a website?

For the record, I like British cars, too. I'd have a Jag Mk2, perhaps an Alvis, any Aston Martin from the 50's or 60's, perhaps an MG-PA, and a Mini...

6/23/09 7:11 p.m.
Sownman wrote: 19 of the top 20 cars ? 43 votes ? "Hey guys go over to this forum and everybody register and vote for every Fiat" Can anybody here actually imagine any single car of the several hundred with 2 or 3 votes every coming close to 43 votes no matter how cherry or rare ? I can but only with a scheme similar to what created the Fiat fiasco. It would of course be a result equally without merit.

Sorry but I feel that your logic is flawed.

I think that word of mouth is the purest form of advertising. It just so happens that at this point in time there are more Fiat and X1/9 owners and fans active then there are any other community. That will only change if more people bring in other car communities to participate.

There is more merit in becoming active in spreading word about the site to your car communities then there is in complaining about a group of active members.

6/23/09 7:47 p.m.

In reply to Sownman:

"BTW yesterday I saw 3 different X 1/9's displayed over the course of the day and no other car."

Yeah, and the day before one of them was mine. So... what's your point? Are you complaining because your car has received less votes up? I love Sunbeam Tigers AND I was a huge Don Adams fan. Does that ease your pain?

I hope you didn't spend all day in front of your monitor!

bluevr6 New Reader
6/23/09 8:05 p.m.

In reply to Sownman:

Steve: Uh, no. Brett e-mailed me to vote for his car. I did. As I was already on GRM and my car was there, it was easy to get it here.

The discussion regarding merit, don't bust on Brett's x until you have seen it. It is by far one of the nicest out there, bar none.

There is no Fiat Fiasco. Every vote was by a registered user, for a presented car. fair game to anyone wanting to play.

oh, and Duane's Spider is to the left as I post

Rupunzell New Reader
6/23/09 11:05 p.m.

As it turns out, there are a number of Ferrari owners who are also X1/9 owners.. and for good reason, these two cars are more similar than different. This was a tread about the X1/9 on Ferrari Chat recently: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=242829

The Ferrari owners who also own an X1/9s have generally positive comments, while those who are "Ferrari Snobs" view the X in the same way as numerous car folks, un-reliable-SLOW-rusty-cheap heaps..

Keep in mind, the same group of designers who were working at Bertone that designed the Lambo Miura worked on the X1/9 as their second project and put much of what they learned into the X1/9.

One of my guy friends (head wrench) from years ago worked at an Italian Exotic car service shop that serviced every thing from Ferrari's to Porsche's and his daily driver was an X1/9 for many, many years. He could easily have owned a far more exotic car, but settled on an X1/9, for many good reasons.

It is interesting how ignorance, car myths, prejudice and ingrained beliefs are perpetuated in the minds of car folks everywhere in the same way as racism or any other form of discrimination.

How many car folks have taken the car in question completely apart, down to the last screw with enough technical expertise to make a honest and proper assessment of what the design really is? Brand reputation is built mostly on public relations such as racing results, social status, image and etc..., but not technical analysis of the design to it's tiniest bits or other fact based judgments.

There were actually thee cars of similar design concepts, Bertone/FIAT X1/9, Lancia MonteCarlo/Scorpion, Ferrari 308 series. All share a number of design concepts and are built from the FIAT parts bins.

little recognition or credit is given to the X1/9's concept of using a front wheel drive drive package in a mid-engine car. This concept is still found in a number of mid-engine cars to this day like the Lotus Elise/Exige. MGF, Toyota MR-2.....

I was hesitant about posting anything here after the last time Tim Baxter verbally abused me here on this forum and have kept away for a host of reasons. There is much I can offer to any car forum, but I will not put up with dis-respect or lack of fact based opinions.

I'm the head wrencher girl for the LeMons team who ran an X1/9 in 2008. The Jalopnik folks predicted the X1/9 would last just over 20 laps, at the end of the event, this X completed over 200 laps. Don't lay judgment on any car until you you have gained enough real world experience and expertise to do so.


Sownman wrote: Yes twelve I'm certain most Ferrari owners have an X 1/9 tucked away for the days they really want some fun on the road. Jeez get real. Steve
Dpvog New Reader
6/24/09 9:50 a.m.

In reply to Sownman: Goodness!!! Please, everyone!!!! We're arguing about pictures of fun cars here, not politics, religion, or the other guy's whoring slutty momma. All this reminds me of the neighbors in Carmel a few years back who got into a feud; two dead, and another with a double life sentence over a rock in a driveway. This is our hobby, right? It's all supposed to be fun. Tigers are wonderful cars; fast, bold, and brawny. Fiats are delightful, and fun to drive. It's all good. Nobody disagrees. So please tell your whoring slutty momma to stop calling me. -Doug

BrettM Reader
6/24/09 10:11 a.m.

It is kinda like a train wreck.

Gary Reader
6/24/09 11:22 a.m.

Train wreck or not, this is the most activity, participation and controversy this forum has ever seen. And there have been some new participants to support the Fiat gang as well. (Ya gotta admit, the forum had been kinda stagnant lately, until this).

Dpvog New Reader
6/24/09 12:14 p.m.

In reply to Gary:

I think all this is Tim Baxter's fault. How about we track him down, tie him to the hood of a Fiat, and take him for an autocross? Let him find out first hand how a Fiat handles! -Doug

Tim Baxter
Tim Baxter Online Editor
6/24/09 12:25 p.m.

Actually, I quite like Fiats, and was seriously trying to buy a Spider not too long ago. One of these days...

Gary Reader
6/24/09 1:23 p.m.

That's OK Tim, we won't hold it against you.

Dpvog New Reader
6/24/09 4:03 p.m.

In reply to Tim Baxter:

There you have it, Sownman. Tim Baxter is a self-proclaimed Fiat man. No wonder there are so many Fiats in the Reader's Rides section. Now, for your edification, here is the proprietary secret complex algorithim he refused to reveal earlier: X1/9=+10TR6=-5AH3000=-4240Z=-2124=+8128SL=+7 So... it was an inside job all along.

Tim Baxter
Tim Baxter Online Editor
6/24/09 4:06 p.m.

Well, actually I'm more of an MG guy, but I've already had three of those, so I thought a Fiat would be a nice change of pace. One of these days I'll get one, although BMW 2002s and old Volvos keep bubbling up to the top of my wish-list, too.

Dpvog New Reader
6/24/09 7:05 p.m.

In reply to Tim Baxter: First off, the 122 has plenty of character, but no zing, and driving a 122 is like being in high school and dating a girl your mother described as "very nice." A BMW 2002 is a little more exciting than a 122, but it's German, and even in Munich, the Germans are more known for reason than passion. Tim, you write for Classic Motorsports, not Consumer Reports, so you need to think outside the metal box. Ask yourself if would you rather explain your next car purchase to colleagues by saying it was a "sensible choice," or that you just felt like "doing something a little crazy?" Would you rather brag about how many miles are on your odometer at the Speedi-Lube, or how few seconds are on the timer at the autocross? These are the kind of questions that define our passion and drive us, sometimes against our better judgement, to purchase a used Fiat. -Doug

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
6/24/09 7:45 p.m.

I heart Doug. Cars are all about emotion. Otherwise, you have an appliance.

aeronca65t HalfDork
6/24/09 7:47 p.m.

Re: Volvos Please go the 6 minute mark on ~This Video~ and tell me if this old Volvo (a PV) is "zingless"? We have three other old Volvos that run with us in VRG (another PV and two 122Ss). All are great fun on the the track and one of the 122S is a absolute rocket.


Thanks to all the FIAT guys who voted to get their cars in the sidebar here. I appreciate it. I have almost forgotten what FIATs look like. Here in NJ, we see lots of interesting cars, especially in the Summer. I drive my '69 MGB on a 200 mile round trip once a week: I see Triumphs, other MGs, Healeys, Lotii, Rolls-Royces, Jags and I even saw a perfect, silver DB-6 yesterday (I wonder if it had the oil-slick button and the hidden cannons?)

But I never see FIATs actually running under their own power on public roads anymore. So, Thanks for the great photos! It really brings back memories of my old 124 sedan and times that it would occasionally start. And sometimes even move.

ps-One of the recent FIAT pictures in the sidebar appeared to show a FIAT in motion. Was that one of those Photoshop tricks?

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
6/24/09 7:53 p.m.

I just posted a photo of my latest purchase. I'm also going to ask that everyone play nicely. Remember, to the rest of the world we're all playing with weird little cars.

Dpvog New Reader
6/24/09 8:32 p.m.

In reply to aeronca65t: Ah hah!!! I caught you, Halfdork! You see, I'm not just a carnut, I'm also a pilot. I happen to know that an Aeronca is the Fiat of light aircraft; a flimsy, whimsical, kite-like vehicle, propelled by a 65 h.p. Continental, that has no earthly reason to exist save for the pure joy of flying. So why would a person who chooses to fly an airborne Fiat drive a car as grounded as a Volvo? Stop! Don't.... don't try to deny it. We've made real progress here! We've already come farther tonight than your Volvo's six digit odometer can ever hope to measure. Now take the last step; up there in the sky where no one can see, you fly for the simple joy of flight, but on the ground, with your true dorkless self hidden underneath a solid (reinforced) steel roof, you doggedly drive towards your destination in a sensible, staid, and yes, dorky, Swedish toaster.
AH! I'm sorry, Halfdork, but I see our time is just about up! We'll have stop here, and pick this up again next week. In the meantime, I'd like you to try to think about why you insist on driving a Volvo to convince the world of your dorkiness when you secretly fly such a dorkless aircraft. -Doug

Dpvog New Reader
6/24/09 9:24 p.m.

In reply to David S. Wallens: Where is your car posted??? Never mind, found it! Motor swap gives HF 160 h.p., I like it! At 200k miles, isn't the shell a little floppy-loose for all that power?

aeronca65t HalfDork
6/25/09 5:30 a.m.

In reply to Dpvog:

Haha! Busted!

~My Airknocker~

I haven't actually owned a Volvo in years, but my last one had a 289 V-8.

ddavidv SuperDork
6/25/09 5:33 a.m.
David S. Wallens wrote: I heart Doug. Cars are all about emotion. Otherwise, you have an appliance.

said the man with a Civic as his avatar.

Even appliances can be fun. I don't know what else you'd call a white Mini that looks like a Kelvinator.

Dpvog New Reader
6/25/09 7:45 a.m.

In reply to ddavidv: UltraDork writes: "Even appliances can be fun." Hello, Mr Ultra! We must be careful here, because while most Hondas do look like appliances, Honda is the Clark Kent of Japanese cars. Hidden underneath the bland practical exterior beats the heart of a superhero, which is why you see so many Hondas on the track and at the autocross, and if you confuse a Honda with a Toyota at the autocross, you'd definitely be tugging on Superman's cape. Anyway, the lesson here is that an automotive appliance gets the title not by what it looks like, but by its personality. Automotive appliances are, by definition, NOT fun. That's why we call them "appliances." Given this information, we can arrive at the following logical exclusionary statement:

1) A Honda and a Mini are fun cars. 2) Appliances are not fun. 3) A Honda and Mini are not appliances. -Doug

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
6/25/09 8:22 a.m.
Dpvog wrote: In reply to David S. Wallens: Where is your car posted??? Never mind, found it! Motor swap gives HF 160 h.p., I like it! At 200k miles, isn't the shell a little floppy-loose for all that power?

Honestly, it's still tight as a drum. If anything, it's a buzzy little car. The tranny has a really short fifth gear, so it turns 4500 rpm at 75 mph. On the track, though, it's perfect.

And I like the fact that it's based on an HF shell. For one, no sunroof means more headroom. It also still has the original gauge cluster. The HF tach only goes up to 7000 rpm, with redline somewhere around 5000 rpm. The new engine can rev to 8200 rpm. It's fun spinning the tach needle past all of the numbers. Yes, an appliance.

vtwelve New Reader
6/25/09 4:29 p.m.

In reply to Dpvog: Didn't Renault build an Appliance? Oh yeah, that was an Alliance. My bad!

VClassics New Reader
6/25/09 5:31 p.m.

My folks had an Alliance, and I had an Encore (Alliance hatchback, essentially). They were very appliance-like, fer sure -- unlike the Renault 5 (later called LeCar) the Alliance replaced, which was a lot more fun.

Note that those old Volvo appliances won an awful lot of rallies back in the day... I specialize in making them less appliance-like yet

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