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Coupefan
Coupefan
3/10/08 10:20 a.m.

Can't wait for this interesting comparison, I kind of already had some exposure to it. I wonder if this article is based on this particular owner. A couple of years ago, at one of the Best of France and Italy car shows in LA, a individual had his time trials prepped X1/9 and his 328 sitting side by side for a picture session. The X1/9 had a hand written cardboard sign saying 'faster' in front of it and the 328 had a sign saying 'sloower'. Very funny picture, I wish I could find it.

Tim Baxter
Tim Baxter Online Editor
3/10/08 10:40 a.m.

That does sound like a funny pic. The latest issue should be in your hands any day now, and it is a good one.

BrettX19
BrettX19 None
3/10/08 10:59 a.m.

I saw the article. Dollar for dollar, the X wins hands down. Of course, who wouldn't want to drive around in a Ferrari. There is room in the world for both cars. They are both great classics! Brett

Lolamk5a
Lolamk5a None
3/10/08 4:00 p.m.

Pound for pound, considering build quality, design, engine performance, parts availability and.....cost, you just cannot beat the X1/9. Easy to restore (just find a rust free example....yes they are out there). Great every day driver, comfortable, and nuthin get the blood going like 7500 rpm.

ddavidv
ddavidv None
3/11/08 7:03 a.m.

The X1/9 is easy to love. They cost next to nothing, so you don't mind that they have meager power. The Ferrari only has it's looks and prancing horse going for it now. 200 or so HP? Big whoop. That may have been something when Higgins watched over Thomas, but today most any V6 sedan can match that. Kind of sad, in a way. The high maintenance cost just doesn't transfer to it being a good value, IMO. Guess I'm just too grassroots for that sort of car.

BrettX19
BrettX19 None
3/11/08 7:10 a.m.

That is true. My old Alfa 164S even had more power AND sounded great. The biggest thing going for the Ferrari is that dang prancing horse. It is hard to beat that wonderful horse.

Of course, one could go out and buy $25,000 worth of gold chains and it would be an even better investment than the 308.

I would rather have several really cool classics that I can actually drive than one Ferrari that I could look at. I think so anyway.

Joe Gearin
Joe Gearin Associate Publisher
3/11/08 9:31 a.m.

I dunno guys. A $25K Ferrari sounds awfully tempting. Especially if you can do the work yourself. It ain't rocket science, and it sure sounds like fun to be elbow deep in a Ferrari motor! Even the oil pans are a work of art!

Besides, like most classics, it isn't about the raw speed, but more the sensation, and communication between car and driver.

I kinda want one.

Tim Baxter
Tim Baxter Online Editor
3/11/08 9:38 a.m.

It is interesting what 25k buys you in a classic these days. I mean, these days an MGA is $25,000 car. Yeah, the cost of ownership (and parts) on the Ferrari is higher, but I suspect it may be more fun to drive than an MGA. Easier to live with, too.

I'm not slagging the MGA. I love pretty much anything that ever wore the Sacred Octagon, but if I had 25k for a classic burning a hole in my pocket, there's a lot of interesting choices out there, and the Ferrari would definitely be one of them.

pdmracing
pdmracing None
3/11/08 10:47 a.m.

I have been a ferrari owner for 21 years. (its been in GRM a few times over the decades too)

The cars are robust & love to be driven. The parts prices are porsche levels, but the engines are very very expensive to repair, a rebuild in parts alone will be 1/2 the value of the car if you do it yourself, and a full rebuild will equal the value ogf the car. I bought mine with lots of miles(& on my credit cards!) & it served as my track car & daily driver for the first 8 years. Now its a weekend toy. The FCA club is still a little pompus, but ferrarichat.com is a great source of DIY info , now that the prices are so cheap, more DIY guys are into the market & I have now found a wealth of info that was just not available a few short years ago

BrettX19
BrettX19 None
3/11/08 12:22 p.m.

I personally LOVE the Bertone designed 308. Those cars are beauty on wheels. Don't let my comments fool you, I love the Ferrari. The reality is that I will never own one and that is ok. I can still drool on yours. :grin:

Tim Baxter
Tim Baxter Online Editor
3/11/08 12:33 p.m.

Ferrari should offer special drool-resistant finishes as an option. I imagine it's quite a problem.

racerdave600
racerdave600
3/11/08 1:52 p.m.

I've never owned a Ferrari, but I have owned more than a dozen X1/9s, and at least that many Alfas, if not more, plus a few Porsches thrown in, etc. While I love the X, a 308 still drives better, no matter how you slice it. Is it worth all the extra dollars it takes to keep one on the road, I don't know, but if I had the money, there'd for sure be one in the garage instead. One's a dream car, the other, well as nice as it is to drive, is not a car many people dream of owning.

There is however one X I'd take in a minute over any 308, and that'd be one of the ultra rare Abarth versions (3 to 5 depending on who you believe).

BrettX19
BrettX19 None
3/11/08 2:04 p.m.

Actually, there is only one Stradale (street) version in existence. All of the others were destroyed by Fiat. Al Cosentino has the one and only Stradale at his place in CA.

http://www.melanconfamily.com/x1-9Various/images/Stradale%202.jpg

Tim Baxter
Tim Baxter Online Editor
3/11/08 2:34 p.m.

Here's the pic:

Whats the one in the background?

Joe Gearin
Joe Gearin Associate Publisher
3/11/08 2:43 p.m.

Yowza!

It reminds me of a Stratos in a way.....a very, very good way!

BrettX19
BrettX19 None
3/11/08 2:55 p.m.

It reminds me of a Stratos in a way.....a very, very good way!

This is why Fiat destroyed all of the Stradale parts. There were enough to build 500 cars and they burned it all. The X1/9 was being more competitive with the Stratos than Lancia liked and they pulled the plug since the X1/9 cost Fiat money to built. I have heard stories that Fiat lost money on every X1/9 sold. It was intended to be an image car for Fiat. This is one of the reasons they didn't update it often.

peppydee
peppydee
3/11/08 2:56 p.m.

OK all you Ferrari 308 (wish you had one) critics. I happen to own both an X/19 and a Ferrari 308 (1977, pre cat 308GTB). This article is one I will cherish forever. The cover is already laminated, framed and hanging with my other auto memorabilia. Yes, I absolutely LOVE my X/19, BUT, without a doubt, I much prefer driving my 308. It's not even close!! As as for comparing to Alfa's like 164s, my everyday drive is a 1995 164 Q. Yes, it's fast, and sounds great, BUT, once again, no question I would rather be tossing around in my 308 than the 164. It's faster, sounds better, looks way better, and, it's a FERRARI!!! It's not a Fiat, not an Alfa, not like anything else made by any automobile manufacturer in the world. I just have to laugh whenever someone ridicules the HP in a 308. Mine happens to have about 250HP since it’s an yearly pre cat 77. It weighs in at about 3000lbs. A very respectable power to weight ratio. Everything about the way it drives makes you smile. The sound of 4 Weber carbs at full throttle will make a candidate for a Viagra commercial. Like the article said, “The Ferrari trumps all for style and performance” and, “In the end, getting both cars is clearly the most logical solution”. Don't let anyone fool you...There is nothing like being behind the wheel of a Ferrari! NOTHING!!

BrettX19
BrettX19 None
3/11/08 3:40 p.m.

Ok,, you said it and without a doubt, you are most qualified to make the call. And for the record, I would trade the X for a Ferrari in a heartbeat. This all makes for good debate. It sounds like you have quite a fun stable of cars there, lucky man.

ddavidv
ddavidv None
3/11/08 3:42 p.m.

Spoken like a true red-blood Ferraristi. :cool: I don't doubt that driving one is a blast. I "got it" when I drove my first Weberized 911 that sometimes cars are a bit magical. But having once owned an 'exotic' Italian car and endured some of the annoyances that go with it, I prefer cars I can buy inexpensively and get parts easily and affordably. Part of the ownership experience to me is it not being a burden. A Ferrari would be a burden for me. I can have two non-burdensome cars for the same price. I like having those choices when I go out to the garage. I have as much fun in my 848cc Mini as you do in your 308, just not the same kind of fun. :cool: The 308 is a good Ferrari, no doubt about it. Just understand that some of us can have the same fun with the X1/9.

racerdave600
racerdave600
3/11/08 7:04 p.m.

Once again it depends on who you believe. There were a total of 5 I belive, one a street version built as a mule to convince Fiat to build them, the other four were constructed as rally cars, according to a former Fiat executive. Al owned a total of 3 at one time I believe, including the one he modified to race at Daytona. I never read where he actually confirmed the number. Also, I don't believe they ever contructed enough parts to build 500, but they did cancel the project in favor of the Stratos. They had at least one rally outing, plus at least one more track outing before the plug was pulled. I don't believe Al ever used his more than the single time at Daytona, and never with the twin cam installed.

ddavidv
ddavidv None
3/12/08 6:00 a.m.

Boy, there would be a good story for CMS some day (Brett?). Al Cosentino has a colorful history with Fiat, Abarth, Mazda and the SCCA. If the story was written by someone other than Al himself it might even be accurate. :grin: Al's life story could be a book, but Al's biggest fan, and biggest enemy, is himself. Tht makes an accurate biography difficult.

BrettX19
BrettX19 None
3/12/08 10:46 a.m.

Ok Dave, I must admit, I enjoy this discussion. I spoke with Al Cosentino about this very subject and he told me that he knew of 3 Prototipos produced, one Stradale (which he still has). The actual parts for 500 Stradale (street versions) were produced and then destroyed. The only reason that Al managed to get the Stradale is that he had it imported for the race at Daytona before they made the decision to end the program. Read this account from Al himself if you can.

This is good stuff. I am not trying to be disagreeable but Al is the most reliable source of info for this and he had no reason to be other than truthful in this case.

ALL FIAT LANCIA AUTOMOBILES FROM THE FIRST FIAT 128 1100CC SOHC VERSIONS WHICH WERE FIRST INTRODUCED IN 1968. THANKS TO ABARTH ING. LUCIANO FOCHI TO MANY NEW MODELS IN THE 1970 / AGAIN IN THE 1980 ENGINEER.

THERE WAS ALSO THE GENOCIDE OF 500 FIAT ABARTH X1/9 STRADALE 1800CC DOHC CARS TO BE HOMOLOGATED FOR STREET USE. FURTHERMORE, THERE WERE ONLY 3 ORIGINAL FIAT ABARTH X1/9 PROTITIPOS CREATED [2 AS IS AND ONE MULLETO FOR TESTING], ALSO ONE STRADALE. VERY BRIEFLY, THE STRADALE WAS THE TEST MULE FOR THE 500 MODIFICATIONS PRODUCED

FROM THE FIBERGLASS TO ALL THE METAL COMPONENTS, ET CETERA . THE GOOD NEWS IS FIAT S. P. A. WAS 100 PERCENT SERIOUS ENOUGH TO SPARE NO EXPENSE! THE BAD NEWS IS THAT 'THE JOLLY CLUB' WAS SUPPORTING LANCIA RACING. THE FIAT ABARTH X1/9 1800 WAS BEATING THE LANCIA STRATOS. SOOOOOOOOOOOO, ALL THE JOLLY CLUB SPOILED MEMBERS PUT THEIR DEMANDS TO THE AGNELLI BROTHERS, OWNERS OF F I A T. BY RIGHTS IT WAS CASA CONTRO CASA [REMEMBER THE BIGGEST WORLDWIDE SPENDER IN RACING .....FROM 1969 TO 1997, WERE THE ONE AND ONLY INVENTORS OF THE AUTOMOBILI AND THE GASOLINE ENGINE. RACING ON WHEELS GOT ITS START IN THEIR COLISEUMS AND CORSE MASSIMO OVAL DIRT TRACKS USING CHARIOTS. JOLLY CLUB PUT THE REQUEST TO THE OWNERS, WHO COMPLIED BY CLUBBING ABARTH TO THE 'GIVE UP' POINT, WITH THE FIAT ABARTH X1/9S! ALL THE 1800CC FIAT ABARTH X1/9 STRADALE METAL PARTS WERE SMELTED AND THE FIBERGLASS BURNED.

THIS IS A 1974 FIAT ABARTH X1/9 DOHC 1800 PROTOTIPO [ONLY 4 WERE BUILT], THIS SCARED THE HELL OUT OF IMSA CHIEF STEWARD CHARLIE RAINVILLE. WHAT ELSE IS NEW WITH THIS DYSFUNCTIONAL NAPOLEON? HE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR MORE FAZA SQUADRA TARGETING HELL AND DESTRUCTION FROM HIS FIRST SHAMEFUL INTRODUCTION IN LATE JUNE 1963 AT LIME ROCK PARK, CONN. DUE TO HIS JEALOUSY / RACISM / GREED FROM THE FIRST DAY HE APPROACHED ME AFTER BOOKING A ROOM AT THE LAKEVIEW INN NEAR THE TRACK. AS L W I [LIVING WHILE ITALO] IN THIS OCCUPIED TERRITORY, HOW TERRIBLE TO HAVE GROWN UP IN THE MANY COUNTIES NORTH OF N. Y. CITY AND HAVE NEVER SEEN AN INDIAN. ALTHOUGH, FROM BIRTH, UNTIL THE ARMY DRAFT, WHICH OVERLOOKED THE CAUCASIANS, BUT NOT THE BLACKS FIRST AND ITALOS SECOND! ALMOST 97 PERCENT OF THE TOWNS HAD INDIAN NAMES. ARE YOU AWARE OF THE 18 MILLION INDIANS WHICH WERE SLAUGHTERED BY ANGLO-SAXON GENOCIDE [8 MILLION BY SMALLPOX GERM WARFARE]? THE WHITE HOUSE .....WORLD CHAMPIONS OF GENOCIDE [THEIR HOSTILE GENES], COMMISSIONED AN AMHERST MARRIED COUPLE IN ENGLAND TO VISIT HERE ON BUSINESS .....SLAUGHTERING THE INDIAN POPULATION BY INVENTING A DEADLY GERM TO ANNIHILATE A FAR SUPERIOR RACE. THEY WERE SUCCESSFUL. SOOOOOOOOOOOOO, THE WHITE HOUSE NAMED PART OF OCCUPIED TERRITORY, AMHERST, MASS. FOR GENOCIDE OF A FAR SUPERIOR RACE. ABOUT THE SAME SUBHUMAN RACE, BUT 97 PERCENT SOUTH OF THE MASON-DIXON LINE, UP TO 600 HUNDRED MILLION AFRICAN SLAVES [600,000,000], WERE ANNIHILATED HERE! BY OCEAN DROWNING, LEFT OFF ON EVERY ISLAND FROM BERMUDA TO THE CARIBBEAN AND SOUTH AMERICA.

Tim Baxter
Tim Baxter Online Editor
3/12/08 2:25 p.m.

:omg:

BrettX19
BrettX19 None
3/12/08 2:43 p.m.

I know. I didn't write it, I simply did a cut and paste.

pdmracing
pdmracing None
3/13/08 1:42 p.m.

is Al still alive?

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